How often do people clean their chains?

[Spacey Spade]

jim wrote:
>I got a new chain this year and got the type that has a gold colored link that can be slid apart
>easily to remove the chain instead of requiring a chain tool. It's so easy I'm sure I'll be
>cleaning it more often. I just did it after 500 miles and there was a fair build up of crud
>(probably from leftover sand from the snowstorms.)
>
>So how often does everyone clean theirs? Not just a wipe down with the chain still on the bike but
>a thorough cleaning.

Whenever it rains. The chain looks clean until there is a rainy day. I live in Houston and ride in
the rain approx once every two weeks.

Spacey

 

[Dave Kahn]

David Kerber <ns_dkerber@ns_ids.net> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...

> > I don't see how you can pull a chain out this way, after it's all folded around and over itself.
>
> If you lower it in that way, it will pull out the same way, because the coils won't be tangled.

They will if you've given the bottle a decent enough shake.

--
Dave...

 

[bball]

On 02 May 2003 12:49:58 GMT, [email protected] (Qui si parla Campagnolo) wrote:

>bball-<< "Once per month" gives us little information: That may be 150mi or
>1200mi.
>
>Yep, once per month, don't think I'll ever do 300 miles per week...
>
><< How many miles do your chains last @1/16" stretch?
>
>About 12 months....
>
>Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St./ Boulder, CO, 80302
>(303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Ah, well, still not much on cleaning information/miles. I'll mention I have 3+ bikes that I don't
drivetrain clean once/month, because I don't ride them. The other 3+ bikes I clean the drivetrain
about every 300mi. And 300 mi is my weekly average for April -- helps if one is retired and spends 4
riding hrs/day for 28 days in the city. And Colorado gives us at least 300 good riding days/year.

Maintaining a cognizant attitude toward diminishing return on effort upon 3 PC-48's and one PC-49
@$10-15 apiece, I gunk, detergent and rinse spray the mounted chain. And drivetrain. A 10-min
operation cleans the whole bike(s) at the same timel. incl wipedown. At least 3000mi life/chain,
9000mi/casette/freewheel. I cannot see any real advantage toward more extensive disassembly and
time-consuming cleaning methods when the KISS method results in very reasonable drivetrain wear/life
expectancy/dollar spent.

I clean the dirty, quick and dirty, and ride more.

When a guy asks: "How often do people clean their chains?", give him a good answer, not ********.

Ride on; more on the saddle, less on the keyboard.

Bruce Ball Colorado Springs

 

[Chris Zacho "Th]

Every time I re-wax it, about every 300-500 miles, depending on weather. But with my method, it's
all part of the process, so why bother when it's being done automatically?.

If you use oil, same rule applies. It makes nio sense to put clean oil on a dirty chain.

May you have the wind at your back. And a really low gear for the hills! Chris

Chris'Z Corner "The Website for the Common Bicyclist": http://www.geocities.com/czcorner

 

[Scott]

Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:

> I use a Rohloff chain checker, and with my riding of about 11-12 hours per week, a new chain every
> 12 months or so. In the shop we recommend changing the chain about every 3000 -3500 miles or
> so-like changing the oil in yer car...

11.5 hours per week x 52 weeks = 598 hours a year

598 hours x 15 miles per hour = 8970 miles

I assume you can manage a 15 mph average with 600 annual hours of riding.

As peter does (assuming 15 mph average): Swap chains at about 9000 miles per chain As peter says to
customers: Swap chains at 3000 to 3500 miles per chain.

Question: Why do you recommend your customers replace their chains about 3 times more often
than you do?

 

[bball]

On 02 May 2003 12:49:58 GMT, [email protected] (Qui si parla Campagnolo) wrote:

>bball-<< "Once per month" gives us little information: That may be 150mi or
>1200mi.
>
>Yep, once per month, don't think I'll ever do 300 miles per week...
>
><< How many miles do your chains last @1/16" stretch?
>
>About 12 months....
>
>Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St./ Boulder, CO, 80302
>(303)440-3535

------------------------

On 03 May 2003 12:19:17 GMT, [email protected] (Qui si parla Campagnolo) wrote:

>bball-<< When a guy asks: "How often do people clean their chains?", give him a good answer, not
>********.
>
>Ride on; more on the saddle, less on the keyboard.
>
>I can see you left your sense of humor on the road somewhere-when I said '12 months'-
>
>I use a Rohloff chain checker, and with my riding of about 11-12 hours per week, a new chain every
>12 months or so. In the shop we recommend changing the chain about every 3000 -3500 miles or
>so-like changing the oil in yer car...
>
>
>Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
>(303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

--------------------------

I posted the original simple question of how many miles per 1/16" chain stretch, and got evasive
answer. We still haven't quite got there but we're getting close @ 3000-3500 mi/chain life as your
shop recommendation.

There's been ongoing debate on chain care thru the years, here and in other bike newsgroups, between
the disassemblers/bucket sloshers and mounted degunkers/sprayers, myself of the latter.

There's been the grinding paste theory, which intuitively appears very sensible as a result of
relubing a dirty chain. And that the grinding paste will prevail in less than a thoroughly
cleaned chain.

But all that being said I can say that thru 5-6 recent riding years that I routinely achieve
3000mi/chain ($10 PC-48), early change @
1/16" stretch, de-gunk and spray-clean per 300mi, motor oil lubrication per 100mi

-----------------------

The past year '02 I picked up a couple of old bikes in good shape; Schwinn Passage and Miyata
Alumicross, both with triples and 14-28 6-freewheels. Judging by the paint, bb, headset, components
in general; these both spent a lot of garage time. I love these bikes and the 27" wheels, two NOS
Weinmann 215s rear and one front, trued, stress-relieved, grease packed. And, wince, a good Huffy
overhaul with Valvoline 85W-140 gear oil dumped down the seat tube to the bb, and tip-up, drizzle up
the down tube to get the head bearings -- repeated about every six months/2000 mi. 2800, 3600 on
these bikes, respectively, so far, and they'll both go for a long time. (I also ride equally a Marin
MTB and Trek 1200; a good range overall)

But to the point: I replaced the chains on these bikes with PC-48's, incorporated accumulated chain
mileage into a riding spreadsheet. Lubed with the 85W-140 gear oil/100mi, spray clean/300mi. The
Schwinn shows 1/32" stretch @ 2814 mi, and really about the same on the Miyata @ 1716 (too early to
tell here). I measure with a steel tape from 1" to 13" or 2" to 14", avoiding the end of the tape.
Looks like the Schwinn PC-48 might make it to 5000 mi, and the Miyata at very least to 3000. Looks
good to me as 3 chain/year rider, minimal dinkaround maintainance time with $10 chains. Else is
beyond diminishing return.

My own conclusions:

2. It's not worthwhile to dinkaround and excessively clean. Sprayoff is payoff on inexpensive
chains which give one great wear for the money. 3000 mi @ 1/16" stretch, the chain doesen't
owe you anything -- $10, put on a new one. Your cassette can handle about three of these,
and if you're really cheap, put on another chain, run it down to 1/8" stretch, trash the
chain & cassette.

3. Grinding paste wear is a myth; at least beyond diminishing return. Lube the dirty chain when the
rollers look dry @ 100mi. Better to maintain an oil cushion between teeth and rollers. Rings and
cogs can last a long time, but when worn can chew up a new chain in no time.

4. There are a multitude of other things to consider, e.g. chainwrap on 11T vs 14-16T cruise,
mild derailleur malallignment which can trash a chain @ 800 mi, riding habits -- aggressive vs
cruise, granny torque, dirt dust mud water, and keeping the drivetrain/chain straight and
least crossed.

But to me Peter, it boiles down to:

HOW MANY MILES PER 1/16" CHAIN STRETCH, AND HOW DO YOU TAKE CARE OF YOUR CHAINS? This is to
everybody, and trash yer beliefs, instead rely upon the scientific method and direct experience and
experimentation. I don't exclude myself either (1) I've picked up an old Trek 1200 with upgrade
components, put on a PC-48 and lubing with 3-in-one oil. (2) Today began running a PC-48 on a 11-32
9-cassette on Marin MTB. Shifting good, keep the drivetrain straight.

A very simple question continuously and evasively answered by Vecchios by Peter, a bucket slosher of
chains and derailer pulleys. Hot damn.

My frustration is justified, my thunder of ******** reverberates thru the heavens, but I ride on
with 27", 26", 700C. My bikes are very quiet, responsive, and they roll very, very well for many,
many miles, every year.

----------------

And, incidentally, I'm amused here on the newsgroup, when a whole lot of discussion had ensued upon
a Trek 1200 and 1000 regarding cassette removal and spacing for 126-130mm wheels. At the time I
happened to pick up a Trek 1200 w/126mm dropouts and 7s Uniglide cassette where the small cog
unscrews for cassette removal. A very quick look tells you that there's no room for any
cassette/freewheel remover tool. And all the discussion/advice that ensued for irrevelant freewheel
and hypoerglide cassette removal. And further, the great problems of frame spreading to accomodate
an 130mm spaced 8sp cassette/hub. And the great potential problems with possible brake frame
attachments.

Mental masturbation to extremes.

It's so damn easy to spring a 130mm wheel into a Trek 126mm dropout frame, the question of permanent
framespread is insignificant. I've done it 20 times during the past month for a variety of reasons.
Requires no Herculean strength and pop goes the weasel.

Reminds me of the mechanically challenged who have ridden their bikes in one gear because they've
never figured out how the shifting works.

Too many people live their lives the same way.

I'll take a wild thrust that those who excessively clean their bicycle drivetrains don't understand
diminishing return, and probably don't ride their bikes all that much, nor enjoy them that much.
That bikes to a cyclist is like walking is to Walt Whitman is incomprehensible.

Bruce Ball

 

[bball]

On Sun, 04 May 2003 05:12:32 GMT, scott <[email protected]> wrote:

>Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
>
>> I use a Rohloff chain checker, and with my riding of about 11-12 hours per week, a new chain
>> every 12 months or so. In the shop we recommend changing the chain about every 3000 -3500 miles
>> or so-like changing the oil in yer car...
>
>
>11.5 hours per week x 52 weeks = 598 hours a year
>
>598 hours x 15 miles per hour = 8970 miles
>
>I assume you can manage a 15 mph average with 600 annual hours of riding.
>
>As peter does (assuming 15 mph average): Swap chains at about 9000 miles per chain As peter says to
>customers: Swap chains at 3000 to 3500 miles per chain.
>
>Question: Why do you recommend your customers replace their chains about 3 times more often
>than you do?
-------

Ah, Scott, you can't do deductions upon Peter's vague replies.

You have to nail Peter: " How many miles do you personally get per
1/16" chain stretch?" What kind of chain, what kind of cleaning methods.

Peter avoids, and presumably doesn't want to answer that simple question.

He has positioned me in lack of humor when I have pointed out that his replies were ********.

I recommended to Peter more on the saddle, less on the keyboard, I suspect his fingers are
becoming stinky!

I ride on roads/trails, do not skid on horse apples.

Bruce Ball

 

[A Muzi]

> Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
> > I use a Rohloff chain checker, and with my riding of about 11-12 hours
per
> > week, a new chain every 12 months or so. In the shop we recommend
changing the
> > chain about every 3000 -3500 miles or so-like changing the oil in yer
car...

"scott" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> 11.5 hours per week x 52 weeks = 598 hours a year
>
> 598 hours x 15 miles per hour = 8970 miles
>
> I assume you can manage a 15 mph average with 600 annual hours of riding.
>
> As peter does (assuming 15 mph average): Swap chains at about 9000 miles per chain As peter says
> to customers: Swap chains at 3000 to 3500 miles per chain.
>
> Question: Why do you recommend your customers replace their chains about 3 times more often
> than you do?

Thanks, Scott, that was fun! A very humorous example of extrapolating flawed assumptions!

I suppose you've read the excellent book, "200% of Nothing" ? I loved it.

--
Andrew Muzi http://www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April 1971

 

[Scott]

A Muzi wrote:
> Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
>
>>I use a Rohloff chain checker, and with my riding of about 11-12 hours
>
> per
>
>>>week, a new chain every 12 months or so. In the shop we recommend
>
> changing the
>
>>>chain about every 3000 -3500 miles or so-like changing the oil in yer
>
> car...
>
>
>
> "scott" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>11.5 hours per week x 52 weeks = 598 hours a year
>>
>>598 hours x 15 miles per hour = 8970 miles
>>
>>I assume you can manage a 15 mph average with 600 annual hours of riding.
>>
>>As peter does (assuming 15 mph average): Swap chains at about 9000 miles per chain As peter says
>>to customers: Swap chains at 3000 to 3500 miles per chain.
>>
>>Question: Why do you recommend your customers replace their chains about 3 times more often
>>than you do?
>
>
>
> Thanks, Scott, that was fun! A very humorous example of extrapolating flawed assumptions!
>

Glad you enjoyed it. Which assumptions are flawed, by the way? I included 3 factors:
1. Time per week. Straight from the horses mouth "about 11 to 12 hours a week". Is 11.5 hours a
flawed assumption? If it is you'll have to take it up with the source.
2. Weeks per year. Straight from the calendar. Is 52 weeks flawed?
3. Average riding speed. What do you think is a reasonable average speed assumption for an
experienced 52 year old male rider on a good quality road bike who rides "about 11 to 12 hours a
week"? I chose 15 MPH. Is this too fast? Too slow? Even at a tenth of a ton, he should be able to
manage something close to this with the fitness that comes from the hours he claims to ride.

 

[bball]

On Mon, 05 May 2003 03:59:27 GMT, scott <[email protected]> wrote:

clip ---------------------

>3. Average riding speed. What do you think is a reasonable average speed assumption for an
> experienced 52 year old male rider on a good quality road bike who rides "about 11 to 12 hours a
> week"? I chose 15 MPH. Is this too fast? Too slow? Even at a tenth of a ton, he should be able
> to manage something close to this with the fitness that comes from the hours he claims to ride.
>

Riding in traffic, whether on streets/trails, it's very to easy to result a 11-12mph average. Even
though one may spend a fair amount of riding @17-22 on a light bike, it's more than counterbalanced
by very slow 2-5mph on slow rolling while timing stoplights/cross traffic/general traffic @<5mph
while the computer is still averaging.

For a variety of reasons, e.g., the smelling of the lilacs, chirping of morning birds, colors of
afternoon sun. a rider may settle for a time into a 10-12mph cruise/observation/meditation mode. Not
everyone rides in a race mode.

Hilly terrain, as in Boulder/Colo Spgs, results in about a 10% loss in average speed. Consider
riding a mile upslope @10mph, downslope @20. Intuitively, one might jump to a conclusion of 15mph
average, but the simple math leads to a 13.33mph average: 6min up, 3min down. I have found,
generally, that for about the same riding effort one averages 15 in the flatlands, 11-12 in hill
country. I suppose similar effect upon average speed with wind influence.

These considerations of average riding speed have been of interest to me thru the years.

The past month I averaged a mere 11.59mph per 43.93mi/day over 28 days on 4 bikes (incl a slower
MTB). I find that kicking up the average to
12.5 requires considerably more effort, and increased danger level within traffic and of overdiving
surfaces. My numbers derived from Cateye computers which report accurately over a measured mile.

And so, we have at least riding philosophies, terrain, traffic conditions, distance that influence
speed, and importantly the types of bikes. 10yrs older than Peter, I'm content to average 11.5
averall without unfounded feelings of guilt over speed performance.

Most of us have caught ourselves, at one time or another, transforming optimal cycling enjoyment
into a ratrace.

Apologies for a roundabout way of suggesting your 15mph estimate may be too high.

Bruce Ball

 

[G.Daniels]

search for Bike.tech.DIY chain cleaning!! and DIY Chain Guard $2!! Somepeople clean when gritty yeah
but when is that?? if one examines the residue in the cut off gallon poly jug afterswirling the
chain in thinner a few times the mechanic/cleaner absorbs how much dirt is actually in there. The
various grades of sand here in SWFLA tend reduce HP by 3-2 gears at two teeth per gear with
two-three grams of accumulated grit.Yes,Virginia,I typed 2-3 grams. Amazing, no? The SR steel
CR's(dis iza gud stuff weir talkin bout here)will last maybe 8-9000 miles with the removing 2-3 gram
fine abrasive silicon sand as a general limit to my tooth grinding over the accumulated mess and
loss of power. overall, from what I read here in Bike.tech, i get the idea that cleaning intervals
stem from what the rider can ignore rather than from what the rider is thinking about.

 

[David Damerell]

jim <[email protected]> wrote:
>So how often does everyone clean theirs? Not just a wipe down with the chain still on the bike but
>a thorough cleaning.

Never. I mean, they're 6 quid apiece and even without any cleaning they last a few thousand miles,
which at 500 miles a month is half a year.
--
David Damerell <[email protected]> Kill the tomato!