C
How old are bladed aero-spokes?
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Ryan Cousineau
Guest
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] wrote:
> http://www.google.com/patents?id=qlVtAAAAEBAJ&pg=PP1&dq=614670
>
> Cheers,
>
> Carl Fogel
Okay Carl, go for the gold. I want to see a 19th c. patent for wheels
made from "fibrous carbon."
--
Ryan Cousineau [email protected] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."
[email protected] wrote:
> http://www.google.com/patents?id=qlVtAAAAEBAJ&pg=PP1&dq=614670
>
> Cheers,
>
> Carl Fogel
Okay Carl, go for the gold. I want to see a 19th c. patent for wheels
made from "fibrous carbon."
--
Ryan Cousineau [email protected] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."
C
On Sun, 03 Feb 2008 20:08:42 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <[email protected]>
wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] wrote:
>
>> http://www.google.com/patents?id=qlVtAAAAEBAJ&pg=PP1&dq=614670
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Carl Fogel
>
>Okay Carl, go for the gold. I want to see a 19th c. patent for wheels
>made from "fibrous carbon."
Dear Ryan,
A typical fibrous carbon bicycle wheel patent, circa 1895:
http://www.google.com/patents?id=yPpjAAAAEBAJ&pg=PP1&dq=537188
Note the canvas outer layer.
Fibrous carbon wheels became popular when after the safety bicycle
replaced the highwheeler. The large highwheeler rim had standardized
on metal, but fibrous carbon was well suited to the smaller wheels.
Many bicycle wheels were made from "fibrous carbon" back then because
it was light and strong:
http://www.fixedgeargallery.com/morley/37.jpg
Indeed, racers preferred fibrous carbon wheels back then.
Fibrous carbon wheels were popular in the U.S., but not in the U.K.,
where the damper climate caused problems.
Also, fibrous carbon was much cheaper in the U.S. with its huge
forests. Most of the good trees in the U.K. were cut down and used to
build ships to fight the Spanish Armada and Napoleon.
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] wrote:
>
>> http://www.google.com/patents?id=qlVtAAAAEBAJ&pg=PP1&dq=614670
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Carl Fogel
>
>Okay Carl, go for the gold. I want to see a 19th c. patent for wheels
>made from "fibrous carbon."
Dear Ryan,
A typical fibrous carbon bicycle wheel patent, circa 1895:
http://www.google.com/patents?id=yPpjAAAAEBAJ&pg=PP1&dq=537188
Note the canvas outer layer.
Fibrous carbon wheels became popular when after the safety bicycle
replaced the highwheeler. The large highwheeler rim had standardized
on metal, but fibrous carbon was well suited to the smaller wheels.
Many bicycle wheels were made from "fibrous carbon" back then because
it was light and strong:
http://www.fixedgeargallery.com/morley/37.jpg
Indeed, racers preferred fibrous carbon wheels back then.
Fibrous carbon wheels were popular in the U.S., but not in the U.K.,
where the damper climate caused problems.
Also, fibrous carbon was much cheaper in the U.S. with its huge
forests. Most of the good trees in the U.K. were cut down and used to
build ships to fight the Spanish Armada and Napoleon.
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
A
A Muzi
Guest
[email protected] wrote:
> http://www.google.com/patents?id=qlVtAAAAEBAJ&pg=PP1&dq=614670
Maybe I missed something. What about that gives "suspension" as the
title suggests?
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> http://www.google.com/patents?id=qlVtAAAAEBAJ&pg=PP1&dq=614670
Maybe I missed something. What about that gives "suspension" as the
title suggests?
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
U
urbanwriter
Guest
In article
<rcousine-98FE55.12084003022008@[74.223.185.199.nw.nuvox.net]>,
Ryan Cousineau <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> > http://www.google.com/patents?id=qlVtAAAAEBAJ&pg=PP1&dq=614670
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Carl Fogel
>
> Okay Carl, go for the gold. I want to see a 19th c. patent for wheels
> made from "fibrous carbon."
would wrought iron qualify... it is a significantly different material
that cast iron or steel, and I'm sure that out there somewhere on the
Web someone has as evidence of its use in a wheel...
<rcousine-98FE55.12084003022008@[74.223.185.199.nw.nuvox.net]>,
Ryan Cousineau <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> > http://www.google.com/patents?id=qlVtAAAAEBAJ&pg=PP1&dq=614670
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Carl Fogel
>
> Okay Carl, go for the gold. I want to see a 19th c. patent for wheels
> made from "fibrous carbon."
would wrought iron qualify... it is a significantly different material
that cast iron or steel, and I'm sure that out there somewhere on the
Web someone has as evidence of its use in a wheel...
R
Ryan Cousineau
Guest
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] wrote:
> On Sun, 03 Feb 2008 20:08:42 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >In article <[email protected]>,
> > [email protected] wrote:
> >
> >> http://www.google.com/patents?id=qlVtAAAAEBAJ&pg=PP1&dq=614670
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> Carl Fogel
> >
> >Okay Carl, go for the gold. I want to see a 19th c. patent for wheels
> >made from "fibrous carbon."
>
> Dear Ryan,
>
> A typical fibrous carbon bicycle wheel patent, circa 1895:
> http://www.google.com/patents?id=yPpjAAAAEBAJ&pg=PP1&dq=537188
>
> Note the canvas outer layer.
Hee hee! That's one way of creatively misinterpreting my joke.
The canvas outer layer doesn't seem like a ridicuous idea, actually.
> Fibrous carbon wheels became popular when after the safety bicycle
> replaced the highwheeler. The large highwheeler rim had standardized
> on metal, but fibrous carbon was well suited to the smaller wheels.
>
> Many bicycle wheels were made from "fibrous carbon" back then because
> it was light and strong:
> http://www.fixedgeargallery.com/morley/37.jpg
>
> Indeed, racers preferred fibrous carbon wheels back then.
>
> Fibrous carbon wheels were popular in the U.S., but not in the U.K.,
> where the damper climate caused problems.
Hm. Does this reflect the climate, or the usage? It occurs to me that
much of the racing in the US was concentrated around board-track events,
while I don't hear of a similar history in the UK.
> Also, fibrous carbon was much cheaper in the U.S. with its huge
> forests. Most of the good trees in the U.K. were cut down and used to
> build ships to fight the Spanish Armada and Napoleon.
Seems like a fair deal.
--
Ryan Cousineau [email protected] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."
[email protected] wrote:
> On Sun, 03 Feb 2008 20:08:42 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >In article <[email protected]>,
> > [email protected] wrote:
> >
> >> http://www.google.com/patents?id=qlVtAAAAEBAJ&pg=PP1&dq=614670
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> Carl Fogel
> >
> >Okay Carl, go for the gold. I want to see a 19th c. patent for wheels
> >made from "fibrous carbon."
>
> Dear Ryan,
>
> A typical fibrous carbon bicycle wheel patent, circa 1895:
> http://www.google.com/patents?id=yPpjAAAAEBAJ&pg=PP1&dq=537188
>
> Note the canvas outer layer.
Hee hee! That's one way of creatively misinterpreting my joke.
The canvas outer layer doesn't seem like a ridicuous idea, actually.
> Fibrous carbon wheels became popular when after the safety bicycle
> replaced the highwheeler. The large highwheeler rim had standardized
> on metal, but fibrous carbon was well suited to the smaller wheels.
>
> Many bicycle wheels were made from "fibrous carbon" back then because
> it was light and strong:
> http://www.fixedgeargallery.com/morley/37.jpg
>
> Indeed, racers preferred fibrous carbon wheels back then.
>
> Fibrous carbon wheels were popular in the U.S., but not in the U.K.,
> where the damper climate caused problems.
Hm. Does this reflect the climate, or the usage? It occurs to me that
much of the racing in the US was concentrated around board-track events,
while I don't hear of a similar history in the UK.
> Also, fibrous carbon was much cheaper in the U.S. with its huge
> forests. Most of the good trees in the U.K. were cut down and used to
> build ships to fight the Spanish Armada and Napoleon.
Seems like a fair deal.
--
Ryan Cousineau [email protected] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."
C
On Sun, 03 Feb 2008 23:33:05 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <[email protected]>
wrote:
>> Fibrous carbon wheels were popular in the U.S., but not in the U.K.,
>> where the damper climate caused problems.
>
>Hm. Does this reflect the climate, or the usage? It occurs to me that
>much of the racing in the US was concentrated around board-track events,
>while I don't hear of a similar history in the UK.
Dear Ryan,
The dislike of wooden wheels seemed to reflect the U.K climate and
cost of wood. In the drier U.S., everyday bicycle wheels were made of
wood and it was a common observation that U.K. bicyclists didn't think
much of wooden rims.
Beyond the weather problem, there was protectionism. Importing wood
(say from Canada) to the U.K. just to make ordinary bicycle wheels
would have been expensive, given the lack of native lumber.
Here's a post about how the 1906 Australian parliament worked itself
into a lather over import tariffs and how _all_ wooden bicycle wheels
came from the U.S., not the U.K.:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/2c538c9ca27554b2
The U.S. also made the best spokes and brakes at the time, at least
according to the more rabid members of the Australian parliament, who
were probably lucky that RBT members weren't available to point out
some of their more glaring mistakes.
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
wrote:
>> Fibrous carbon wheels were popular in the U.S., but not in the U.K.,
>> where the damper climate caused problems.
>
>Hm. Does this reflect the climate, or the usage? It occurs to me that
>much of the racing in the US was concentrated around board-track events,
>while I don't hear of a similar history in the UK.
Dear Ryan,
The dislike of wooden wheels seemed to reflect the U.K climate and
cost of wood. In the drier U.S., everyday bicycle wheels were made of
wood and it was a common observation that U.K. bicyclists didn't think
much of wooden rims.
Beyond the weather problem, there was protectionism. Importing wood
(say from Canada) to the U.K. just to make ordinary bicycle wheels
would have been expensive, given the lack of native lumber.
Here's a post about how the 1906 Australian parliament worked itself
into a lather over import tariffs and how _all_ wooden bicycle wheels
came from the U.S., not the U.K.:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/2c538c9ca27554b2
The U.S. also made the best spokes and brakes at the time, at least
according to the more rabid members of the Australian parliament, who
were probably lucky that RBT members weren't available to point out
some of their more glaring mistakes.
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
W
Werehatrack
Guest
On Sun, 03 Feb 2008 18:31:18 -0700, [email protected] may have
said:
>Highwheelers were so awkward and expensive that there never were very
>many of them, and most of them vanished during the scrap metal drives
>of the First World War, being good for nothing else.
Another round of this took place in World War 2, with similar results
for a variety of the quirky inventions of the '20s.
>A good parallel
>would be the early CPM computers--they were made in tiny numbers
>compared to x86 machines and were usually thrown away when faster
>systems became available.
And yet they still turn up from time to time. recently, someone tried
to give away three complete old Apple IIe systems nearby, and I know
of someone who still uses a TRS80 Model 3 for business purposes. (As
for why, I will state only that I have known few people who could
leave fingerprint ridges in a penny, but I think this guy would have
no problem doing so.)
--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
said:
>Highwheelers were so awkward and expensive that there never were very
>many of them, and most of them vanished during the scrap metal drives
>of the First World War, being good for nothing else.
Another round of this took place in World War 2, with similar results
for a variety of the quirky inventions of the '20s.
>A good parallel
>would be the early CPM computers--they were made in tiny numbers
>compared to x86 machines and were usually thrown away when faster
>systems became available.
And yet they still turn up from time to time. recently, someone tried
to give away three complete old Apple IIe systems nearby, and I know
of someone who still uses a TRS80 Model 3 for business purposes. (As
for why, I will state only that I have known few people who could
leave fingerprint ridges in a penny, but I think this guy would have
no problem doing so.)
--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
W
Werehatrack
Guest
On Sun, 03 Feb 2008 22:27:03 -0600, Tom Sherman
<[email protected]> may have said:
>Werehatrack wrote:
>> ...
>> And yet they still turn up from time to time. recently, someone tried
>> to give away three complete old Apple IIe systems nearby, and I know
>> of someone who still uses a TRS80 Model 3 for business purposes. (As
>> for why, I will state only that I have known few people who could
>> leave fingerprint ridges in a penny, but I think this guy would have
>> no problem doing so.)
>>
>Do you refrain from calling it a "Trash 80" in his company?
Naah, we both call it a Trash80. He's just too cheap to stop using it
since it still performs a useful task for him.
>The first computer I ever used was a Trash 80 Model 1.
The first I owned was a bit later. What was the first one I used is a
matter of interpretation.
--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
<[email protected]> may have said:
>Werehatrack wrote:
>> ...
>> And yet they still turn up from time to time. recently, someone tried
>> to give away three complete old Apple IIe systems nearby, and I know
>> of someone who still uses a TRS80 Model 3 for business purposes. (As
>> for why, I will state only that I have known few people who could
>> leave fingerprint ridges in a penny, but I think this guy would have
>> no problem doing so.)
>>
>Do you refrain from calling it a "Trash 80" in his company?
Naah, we both call it a Trash80. He's just too cheap to stop using it
since it still performs a useful task for him.
>The first computer I ever used was a Trash 80 Model 1.
The first I owned was a bit later. What was the first one I used is a
matter of interpretation.
--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
C
On Sun, 03 Feb 2008 20:08:42 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <[email protected]>
wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] wrote:
>
>> http://www.google.com/patents?id=qlVtAAAAEBAJ&pg=PP1&dq=614670
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Carl Fogel
>
>Okay Carl, go for the gold. I want to see a 19th c. patent for wheels
>made from "fibrous carbon."
Dear Ryan,
http://www.google.com/patents?id=fm5UAAAAEBAJ&pg=PP1&dq=580377#PPP1,M1
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] wrote:
>
>> http://www.google.com/patents?id=qlVtAAAAEBAJ&pg=PP1&dq=614670
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Carl Fogel
>
>Okay Carl, go for the gold. I want to see a 19th c. patent for wheels
>made from "fibrous carbon."
Dear Ryan,
http://www.google.com/patents?id=fm5UAAAAEBAJ&pg=PP1&dq=580377#PPP1,M1
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
R
Ryan Cousineau
Guest
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] wrote:
> On Sun, 03 Feb 2008 20:08:42 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >In article <[email protected]>,
> > [email protected] wrote:
> >
> >> http://www.google.com/patents?id=qlVtAAAAEBAJ&pg=PP1&dq=614670
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> Carl Fogel
> >
> >Okay Carl, go for the gold. I want to see a 19th c. patent for wheels
> >made from "fibrous carbon."
>
> Dear Ryan,
>
> http://www.google.com/patents?id=fm5UAAAAEBAJ&pg=PP1&dq=580377#PPP1,M1
Paper-thin? Sure. Paper-light? Sounds good. Paper? I am surprised.
--
Ryan Cousineau [email protected] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."
[email protected] wrote:
> On Sun, 03 Feb 2008 20:08:42 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >In article <[email protected]>,
> > [email protected] wrote:
> >
> >> http://www.google.com/patents?id=qlVtAAAAEBAJ&pg=PP1&dq=614670
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> Carl Fogel
> >
> >Okay Carl, go for the gold. I want to see a 19th c. patent for wheels
> >made from "fibrous carbon."
>
> Dear Ryan,
>
> http://www.google.com/patents?id=fm5UAAAAEBAJ&pg=PP1&dq=580377#PPP1,M1
Paper-thin? Sure. Paper-light? Sounds good. Paper? I am surprised.
--
Ryan Cousineau [email protected] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."
R
Ryan Cousineau
Guest
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] wrote:
> On Thu, 07 Feb 2008 06:58:42 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >In article <[email protected]>,
> > [email protected] wrote:
> >
> >> On Sun, 03 Feb 2008 20:08:42 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <[email protected]>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >In article <[email protected]>,
> >> > [email protected] wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> http://www.google.com/patents?id=qlVtAAAAEBAJ&pg=PP1&dq=614670
> >> >>
> >> >> Cheers,
> >> >>
> >> >> Carl Fogel
> >> >
> >> >Okay Carl, go for the gold. I want to see a 19th c. patent for wheels
> >> >made from "fibrous carbon."
> >>
> >> Dear Ryan,
> >>
> >> http://www.google.com/patents?id=fm5UAAAAEBAJ&pg=PP1&dq=580377#PPP1,M1
> >
> >Paper-thin? Sure. Paper-light? Sounds good. Paper? I am surprised.
>
> Dear Ryan,
>
> Wave of the future!
>
> Lower right corner, "Bicycling World," March 16, 1894:
>
> <http://www.nostalgic.net/index.asp?S=arc/ScannedLit/TheBicyclingWorld-3-16-94/
TBW%2D3%2D16%2D94pg15%2Ejpg>
I have to suspect that these last two innovations existed
(must...resist!) only on paper.
--
Ryan Cousineau [email protected] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."
[email protected] wrote:
> On Thu, 07 Feb 2008 06:58:42 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >In article <[email protected]>,
> > [email protected] wrote:
> >
> >> On Sun, 03 Feb 2008 20:08:42 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <[email protected]>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >In article <[email protected]>,
> >> > [email protected] wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> http://www.google.com/patents?id=qlVtAAAAEBAJ&pg=PP1&dq=614670
> >> >>
> >> >> Cheers,
> >> >>
> >> >> Carl Fogel
> >> >
> >> >Okay Carl, go for the gold. I want to see a 19th c. patent for wheels
> >> >made from "fibrous carbon."
> >>
> >> Dear Ryan,
> >>
> >> http://www.google.com/patents?id=fm5UAAAAEBAJ&pg=PP1&dq=580377#PPP1,M1
> >
> >Paper-thin? Sure. Paper-light? Sounds good. Paper? I am surprised.
>
> Dear Ryan,
>
> Wave of the future!
>
> Lower right corner, "Bicycling World," March 16, 1894:
>
> <http://www.nostalgic.net/index.asp?S=arc/ScannedLit/TheBicyclingWorld-3-16-94/
TBW%2D3%2D16%2D94pg15%2Ejpg>
I have to suspect that these last two innovations existed
(must...resist!) only on paper.
--
Ryan Cousineau [email protected] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."
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