How to get dropped in a crit 101...



tonyzackery

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Dec 23, 2006
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Above is a screen shot from a crit I entered in but didn't finish because, like a genius, I thought I could tail-gun from the back and still make it to the finish. Doh! Course was more technical than I thought due to the size of the field and the stringent enforcement of the yellow line rule which required an almost standstill march through the corners unless you were one of the first 10 riders.

Each one of those high torque, sprinting out of the corners efforts over 700w (some as high as a 1000w+) was a nail in my coffin...only lasted about 20mins of the 50min crit...

Lesson learned: do this only when you WANT TO GET DROPPED! LOL!

edit: for those that want to know -

1000w+ 9x
900w+ 12x
800w+ 8x
700w+ 5x

Can you say "ouch". Good training is only good thing to take away from this race...
 
Well TZ.....a sensible post for once.

Nice power numbers there imo. 1000 W is quite high.
 
Originally Posted by Yojimbo_ .

Well TZ.....a sensible post for once.

Nice power numbers there imo. 1000 W is quite high.
yawn...LOL! Like you know something about power numbers?! Just another anonomous idiot crowing from the peanut gallery...take my advice and go ride your bike (if you have one) and cease with the stalking of me from thread to thread.../img/vbsmilies/smilies/wink.gif
 
A little more interesting info on learning how get dropped: during the 19:27 I was in the race, 6:00 or 31% of the time, I wasn't even pedaling. However, when I was pedaling, average watts were 403(!).

The normalized power was "only" (it's all relative) 302w and average power only 279w. My FTP is in the neighborhood of 320-330w. Ergo, if I would've been up near the front where the pace was MUCH smoother I could've relatively easily finished the race as the pace does slow down a bit as the duration lengthens...

Why didn't he move up, someone is probably asking themselves? Well, as I was continuously stretching the rubberband by sprinting out of each corner, my ability to sustain those accelerations got shorter and shorter so it was all I could do to just make contact again with the back of the field. Moving up took a backseat to simply recovering for the next corner that I was gonna have to sprint out of...

Yeah, seriously rookie mistake in underestimating the effects of hangin' out in the back...
 
Impressive effort and great example of the accordian effect Tony. The highs and lows on that blue speed curve speak volumes on how hard it was to maintain speed at the back of what must have been a tight crit course and those power spikes look like a series of prime sprints lap after lap.

Great example of what happens at the back on tight courses.

-Dave
 
You got it right, Dave.
In lieu of this exercise I could've just saved the time in preparation the night before, the $25 race entry fee, and did some Tabata intervals at home on the trainer and called it day/img/vbsmilies/smilies/wink.gif...

Those pink spikes are the torque figures, and most assuredly give vivid depiction of what was involved in sprinting out of the corners from a relatively slow speed in order to get back into the draft of the peloton...
 
"an almost standstill march through the corners"

One theory of riding such a race might be to not chase so hard. Let the corner clear out so that you can go through it at full speed. Reduces the peak effort.

That theory might or might not be applicable.
 
Originally Posted by An old Guy .

"an almost standstill march through the corners"

One theory of riding such a race might be to not chase so hard. Let the corner clear out so that you can go through it at full speed. Reduces the peak effort.

That theory might or might not be applicable.

Yeah, you got a point and I thought about that afterward, but not so sure about the feasibility or success. It should be mentioned that there were others behind me that were playing the same yo-yo game and they probably wouldn't have appreciated me leaving a gap. When I fell off though for good, some guys more fit than I did go around and were able to get back on terms.

It also should be noted that this was my first race of the season and obviously my current fitness level did not prepare me for the repeated accelerations, aka burning matches. I've been doing truckloads of L3/L4, a little L5, no L6, and a tiny bit of L7 this winter. As I continue to race, I'll undoubtedly get fitter for purpose and have no concerns that I'll be able to handle a race of this type in a couple months. I am somewhat encouraged that I was able to last as long as I did with no specific prep for the technical requirements of the course. My ability to recover was very good in actuality, letting me know my base fitness is right where it needs to be at this time of the racing season - just beginning in this neck of the woods...

Now if I could lose about 15lbs of upper body muscle, this race would've been much less difficult still. Any takers?? LOL! Basically, when you're 195lbs (~90kg) and having to muscle out of corners, you're not doing yourself any favors...
 
Some people who race develop some sort of race plan. One that fits their strengths. It is unlikely that the plan: ride toward the front and sprint for the finish is the best for everyone.

Make some race plans. And enjoy yourself.
 
For clarification of your riddle: is your comment an implication that you think I didn't have any type of plan going into this race, or that my belief that I'm a sprinter who is capable of riding near the front and then sprinting at the finish is misguided - or both?? As I'm a little slow on the uptake, please clear my fog. Thanks./img/vbsmilies/smilies/wink.gif

edit: and I need to add that I appreciate you not using the word "stupid" in your above reply.../img/vbsmilies/smilies/icon14.gif
 
Still interested in hearing exactly what you meant by your comments, 'An Old Guy'.

You're realatively new around here and don't know my racing history, so I can understand your reaction and apparent jump to conclusions based on the information contained in this thread. Nevertheless...

Is it your thought that the title of this thread should've been, "Not having a plan will get you dropped?", or "Overestimating your abilities will get you dropped?" Or???
 
Did my 1st 2 crits today and I was honestly caught a bit off gaurd by that type of riding. I managed to win the 1st one, but the effort that I had to put out left me with little to work with during the 2nd one. I am "a ride towards the front sprint to the finish" type of guy, so I really was not use to being cycled to mid pack when I had no intention to be at mid-pack. I was still able to get myself back up to the front when I wanted, but with the limited energy and that the freshness and strength of the group (most of them did not do the previous race), I think I would have been better served sitting back a bit. With the pace of both races though I found that kind of difficult, crits are going to take some getting use to.
 
Originally Posted by tonyzackery .

Still interested in hearing exactly what you meant by your comments, 'An Old Guy'.

You're realatively new around here and don't know my racing history, so I can understand your reaction and apparent jump to conclusions based on the information contained in this thread. Nevertheless...

Is it your thought that the title of this thread should've been, "Not having a plan will get you dropped?", or "Overestimating your abilities will get you dropped?" Or???
It is clear that your plan at the race did not produce a result you are proud of.

It appears you now have a plan that you think would have produced a better result:

"My FTP is in the neighborhood of 320-330w. Ergo, if I would've been up near the front where the pace was MUCH smoother I could've relatively easily finished the race as the pace does slow down a bit as the duration lengthens."

"would have", "could have" Not the best of comments. But then you did not execute that plan, so your speculation is not worth much.

---

320-330w FTP. Does that put you at or above Cat1?

---

My comment "It is unlikely that the plan: ride toward the front and sprint for the finish is the best for everyone" was directed toward your after the fact proposed plan quoted above.

It is clear that in your situation, that my suggestion to let a gap grow so you can go through the corners fast at a lower power output would have accomplished the same as you "been up near the front where the pace was MUCH smoother."

Both my comment and my suggestion ware intended for people who might find themselves in such a condition and not know what to do.

At your power level you are not here to get advice.
 
^^ Simply - you're entitled to your opinion. Thanks for offering yours. I think you're being overly critical of my posts, but hey, that's IMO...no prob.

Disagree that sitting off the back with a gap, but possible marginally smoother exits would've produced better results. On a non-technical course - yeah, you can get away with that. Too much uncertainty with that approach, IMO. If I was intent on getting a result from this race, I would've made a concerted effort to move up earlier and/or been one of the first on the starting line to ensure a place in the front. This was a training crit in my book - my 'A' races take place later in the season.

This thread was intended to be an expose of what transpires when you sit in the back during a crit on a technical course. That it's quickly morphed into a critique of my racing strat, or lack thereof, is just another example of the beauty that is an internet forum.../img/vbsmilies/smilies/wink.gif
 
Originally Posted by bgoetz .

Did my 1st 2 crits today and I was honestly caught a bit off gaurd by that type of riding. I managed to win the 1st one, but the effort that I had to put out left me with little to work with during the 2nd one. I am "a ride towards the front sprint to the finish" type of guy, so I really was not use to being cycled to mid pack when I had no intention to be at mid-pack. I was still able to get myself back up to the front when I wanted, but with the limited energy and that the freshness and strength of the group (most of them did not do the previous race), I think I would have been better served sitting back a bit. With the pace of both races though I found that kind of difficult, crits are going to take some getting use to.
A win is a win is a win. Nice work! Sounds like you're gettin' greedy to me though - expecting a win on the second too, eh?/img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif

Sounds like you got some good strength relative to your comp by your admission that you can move around in the field at will. Also, if the course isn't technical, you can sit in the back and relax somewhat - I wouldn't suggest trying that on a course with tight turns...

Crits are blast - to me anyway. I like the condensed, concentrated racing. Also like the fact that they're not hours long...to each his own...
 
Originally Posted by An old Guy .

320-330w FTP. Does that put you at or above Cat1?

My FTP is at or just above that, I am a Cat 5, all be it I am making my way through Cat 5 pretty quick and am actually getting ready to request an upgrade, but I am certainly no Cat 1. I would guess most decent Cat 1s are around 5 watt/kg, so at 185lbs my FTP would need to be around 420, even at 160 it would be more than 320-330.
 
Originally Posted by bgoetz .





My FTP is at or just above that, I am a Cat 5, all be it I am making my way through Cat 5 pretty quick and am actually getting ready to request an upgrade, but I am certainly no Cat 1. I would guess most decent Cat 1s are around 5 watt/kg, so at 185lbs my FTP would need to be around 420, even at 160 it would be more than 320-330.

For sure.
Power and how it translates to racing success is much more dependent on the course.

Illustration: I'm a Cat. 3 with a w/kg of around 3.6 - I'm 88kgs or so. On a hilly crit course, I'd be hard pressed to stay with Cat. 4/5s. On a flat course, I regularly beat Cat. 1/2 racers because I can sit in and conserve energy, and have a good sprint...

I race my strength - no way am I going to go off the front and sit at 320w to TT home. I'd never make it - my drag coefficient is ridiculously poor (tall with extremely wide shoulders)...Therefore, I sit in near the front and wait for the sprint. Regularly I hit between 1300-1400w at the END of a crit race...
 
Originally Posted by tonyzackery .


On a flat course, I regularly beat Cat. 1/2 racers because I can sit in and conserve energy, and have a good sprint...

I race my strength
Most cat 1/2 racers know how to race their strength. Few take a stronger sprinter to the line.

But I am sure you are smarter than the other guys who race.
 
Originally Posted by An old Guy .




Most cat 1/2 racers know how to race their strength. Few take a stronger sprinter to the line.

But I am sure you are smarter than the other guys who race.

LOL! You go from earlier telling me I don't know how to race to the above - and I'd say both are just as sincere...
You're developing an interesting reputation in the short time you've been here...LOL!

Anyway, crit season starts in May around here. I'll give you more ammunition at that time, okay?/img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif