How to increase speed?

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by No E-mail, Jul 25, 2004.

  1. Peter Cole

    Peter Cole Guest

    "Roger Zoul" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Peter Cole wrote:
    > ||
    > || I wouldn't worry too much about cadence, just do what feels natural.
    >
    >
    > What if grinding up a hill at 40cad feels natural? Will that be good for the
    > knees in the long run?


    Peak pedal force is the same, whether pedaling at 40 rpm or not. Climbing is
    no different than sprinting. I don't know of anyone who damaged their knees
    from cycling, it's generally used as a therapy for people who have damaged
    their knees doing other things.
     


  2. Peter Allen

    Peter Allen Guest

    No E-mail <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > What's the best way to do intervals? On a trainer? I live in Sunny
    > CA so I can bike all the time outdoors. Would buying a trainer do me
    > some good or is it just for people who have winters/rain? Thanks.


    Find a ten-minute hill; go to the bottom of the hill. Climb the hill
    almost as fast as you can. Go back down the hill and bodge about for a
    few minutes at old granny speed. Climb the hill again. Repeat times
    five or so, aim to be completely blown when you get to the top the
    last time, try to make each of the times up the hill reasonably
    similar.

    Do something similar on the flat.

    If you're going over just slightly lumpy countryside with lots of
    little climbs but nothing big and not much flat ground, try to keep
    your speed constant while you're going in one direction (so you have
    to work hard to get up the climbs and sit back on the downhills).

    Go out with a group where when you're on quiet roads every time you
    see a sign sprint to it (unless the sign is Give Way or Stop, of
    course).

    Peter
     
  3. Terry Morse wrote:
    > There was a lively discussion of this subject a few months ago,
    > differentiating VO2max (actual max. cardio output) and VO2peak (max.
    > cardio output for a specific exercise). VO2peak is always less than
    > or equal to VO2max:
    >
    > http://tinyurl.com/3kn4u
    >
    > Summary: Since a trained cyclist can attain actual VO2max while
    > cycling, VO2peak and VO2max are the same in that case, and the same
    > is likely true for that trained cyclist's VO2peak when running.


    Jiminy Christmas, there are 550 posts in that discussion. Any other
    interesting tidbits you can remember, or do we need to read all 550 to
    find out? ;-)

    -km

    --
    the black rose
    proud to be owned by a yorkie
    http://community.webshots.com/user/blackrosequilts
     
  4. On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 11:40:14 GMT, "Peter Cole"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Climbing is about power to weight ratio, speed on flats is about power to
    >drag. Taller people usually have naturally worse power to weight and better
    >power to drag. This makes them better time trialists than climbers, typically
    >(of course there are always exceptions).


    Yeah. Like Induráin!

    -Luigi
     
  5. On Tue, 27 Jul 2004 10:08:31 -0400, Luigi de Guzman
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 11:40:14 GMT, "Peter Cole"
    ><[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>Climbing is about power to weight ratio, speed on flats is about power to
    >>drag. Taller people usually have naturally worse power to weight and better
    >>power to drag. This makes them better time trialists than climbers, typically
    >>(of course there are always exceptions).

    >
    >Yeah. Like Induráin!


    I am a moron. I should have typed "Like Merckx!" but was thinking of
    Induráin for some reason. blah.

    -Luigi
     
  6. Terry Morse

    Terry Morse Guest

    the black rose wrote:

    > Terry Morse wrote:
    > > There was a lively discussion of this subject a few months ago,
    > > differentiating VO2max (actual max. cardio output) and VO2peak (max.
    > > cardio output for a specific exercise). VO2peak is always less than
    > > or equal to VO2max:
    > >
    > > http://tinyurl.com/3kn4u
    > >
    > > Summary: Since a trained cyclist can attain actual VO2max while
    > > cycling, VO2peak and VO2max are the same in that case, and the same
    > > is likely true for that trained cyclist's VO2peak when running.

    >
    > Jiminy Christmas, there are 550 posts in that discussion. Any other
    > interesting tidbits you can remember, or do we need to read all 550 to
    > find out? ;-)


    Well, I did say it was a lively discussion. :)

    The gist was that VO2peak while running or cycling is the same for a
    sufficiently trained athlete. Only the un- or under-trained subject
    will show VO2peak differences between running and cycling.
    --
    terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/
     
  7. On Tuesday 27 July 2004 16:09, Luigi de Guzman wrote:
    >>Yeah. Like Induráin!

    >
    > I am a moron. I should have typed "Like Merckx!" but was thinking of
    > Induráin for some reason. blah.


    Moreover, it's Induraín.
     
  8. Diablo Scott

    Diablo Scott Guest

    Ewoud Dronkert wrote:

    > On Tuesday 27 July 2004 16:09, Luigi de Guzman wrote:
    >
    >>>Yeah. Like Induráin!

    >>
    >>I am a moron. I should have typed "Like Merckx!" but was thinking of
    >>Induráin for some reason. blah.

    >
    >
    > Moreover, it's Induraín.


    Vocal accent is on the "a", normal Spanish dipthong with the "ai", no
    written accent anywhere, no unwritten accent on the capital "I".

    http://www.arrakis.es/~angelman/indu.htm


    --
    My bike blog:
    http://diabloscott.blogspot.com/
     
  9. On Tue, 27 Jul 2004 07:21:15 -0700, Terry Morse <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >The gist was that VO2peak while running or cycling is the same for a
    >sufficiently trained athlete. Only the un- or under-trained subject
    >will show VO2peak differences between running and cycling.


    How does someone use information about VO2peak in designing training?

    JT
     
  10. Frank Miles

    Frank Miles Guest

    In article <[email protected]_s02>,
    Peter Cole <[email protected]> wrote:
    >"Roger Zoul" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]
    >> Peter Cole wrote:
    >> ||
    >> || I wouldn't worry too much about cadence, just do what feels natural.
    >>
    >>
    >> What if grinding up a hill at 40cad feels natural? Will that be good for the
    >> knees in the long run?

    >
    >Peak pedal force is the same, whether pedaling at 40 rpm or not. Climbing is
    >no different than sprinting. I don't know of anyone who damaged their knees
    >from cycling, it's generally used as a therapy for people who have damaged
    >their knees doing other things.


    While on a loaded bike tour in the Canadian Rockies, one of the riders
    (thinking he was in a lower gear than he actually was) really honked up a
    mountain road. He complained of knee pain all the next day, and dropped out
    of the tour the day after that. Hard to know exactly what happened to the
    tissues: was it bone? cartilage? tendon? mental?

    In any event your claim that you cannot damage knees in cycling seems far
    too broad to be correct, though probably true for most it may not hold for
    some, especially with unknown uniquely weird knees.

    -frank
    --
     
  11. Diablo Scott wrote:

    > Ewoud Dronkert wrote:
    >
    >> On Tuesday 27 July 2004 16:09, Luigi de Guzman wrote:
    >>
    >>>> Yeah. Like Induráin!
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> I am a moron. I should have typed "Like Merckx!" but was thinking of
    >>> Induráin for some reason. blah.

    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Moreover, it's Induraín.

    >
    >
    > Vocal accent is on the "a", normal Spanish dipthong with the "ai", no
    > written accent anywhere, no unwritten accent on the capital "I".
    >
    > http://www.arrakis.es/~angelman/indu.htm


    How come you guys pick up on this and didn't notice that I put the wrong
    accent on passé last week?

    Standards of pedantry are slipping.
     
  12. Peter Cole

    Peter Cole Guest

    "Frank Miles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > In article <[email protected]_s02>,
    > Peter Cole <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > >Peak pedal force is the same, whether pedaling at 40 rpm or not. Climbing

    is
    > >no different than sprinting. I don't know of anyone who damaged their knees
    > >from cycling, it's generally used as a therapy for people who have damaged
    > >their knees doing other things.

    >
    > While on a loaded bike tour in the Canadian Rockies, one of the riders
    > (thinking he was in a lower gear than he actually was) really honked up a
    > mountain road. He complained of knee pain all the next day, and dropped out
    > of the tour the day after that. Hard to know exactly what happened to the
    > tissues: was it bone? cartilage? tendon? mental?
    >
    > In any event your claim that you cannot damage knees in cycling seems far
    > too broad to be correct, though probably true for most it may not hold for
    > some, especially with unknown uniquely weird knees.


    I didn't say it couldn't be done, just that I didn't know of anyone who has. I
    know a lot of riders who put in a lot of miles. The idea that low cadence is
    in itself harmful is particularly dubious (which was the context & the
    argument for spinning). Cycling has neither impact or twisting forces, the two
    major culprits of knee injury. Sore knees are not necessarily damaged knees.
    Things that can happen from bad pedaling style are tendonitis (particularly in
    the achilles, which may become permanent) and Morton's neuroma, these are well
    known, yet people always fret about knees. I haven't seen those problems
    except in rumor/hearsay.
     
  13. On Tuesday 27 July 2004 19:12, Diablo Scott wrote:
    > Ewoud Dronkert wrote:
    >> Moreover, it's Induraín.

    >
    > Vocal accent is on the "a", normal Spanish dipthong with the "ai", no
    > written accent anywhere, no unwritten accent on the capital "I".


    It appears so. Sorry, I remembered badly then.
     
  14. Roger Zoul

    Roger Zoul Guest

    Peter Cole wrote:
    || "Roger Zoul" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    || news:[email protected]
    ||| Peter Cole wrote:
    |||||
    ||||| I wouldn't worry too much about cadence, just do what feels
    ||||| natural.
    |||
    |||
    ||| What if grinding up a hill at 40cad feels natural? Will that be
    ||| good for the knees in the long run?
    ||
    || Peak pedal force is the same, whether pedaling at 40 rpm or not.
    || Climbing is no different than sprinting. I don't know of anyone who
    || damaged their knees from cycling, it's generally used as a therapy
    || for people who have damaged their knees doing other things.

    Well, I don't know what your experience or background is, but I read lots of
    people who claim that grinding in too high a gear is one of the two major
    reasons for knee pain - and hence is the where the recommendation for
    spinning at high cadence originates. Also, your statement suggests that
    cycling is never harmful to the knees, which we know is not true -- improper
    fit on the bike very definitely can have a negative impact on the knees.

    Certainly, it is true that cycling can be beneifical to the knees, but it is
    not a foregone conclusion.
     
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