How to make my cheap bike faster...cheaply

[Rick Onanian]

On 2 Feb 2004 16:06:57 -0800, [email protected] (dan baker) wrote:
>You will get a *little* improvement with lighter more aero wheels, partly in your head.

An improvement in your head is nearly as effective as a body improvement.
--
Rick Onanian

 

[Jp]

"Peter Cole" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<gxzTb.162365$Rc4.1268244@attbi_s54>...

> To put numbers on it, the fanciest aero wheels will get you less than .5% in a typical TT. Who
> would care about that?

Everyone who does TTs. You're saving a second for every two minutes you're on the course. And this
is regardless of form or fitness.

JP

 

[Peter Cole]

"Bruce Frech" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> It tells the story we are talking about. And that story is about techinical changes to a bike. We
> are not talking about fitness. So keep to the subject.

No, I was mostly talking about technique (vs. equipment), since fitness is so obvious.

> Since you think small techinical changes don't matter, where do you draw the line? 36 versus 32
> spokes? The body position from a typical racing bike this year to that 10 years ago or 40 or ???
> Square rims versus slightly aero versus deep dish? Tight jersey versus flappy t-shirt?.

The example I gave was between the most aero wheels and typical 32-36 spoke wheels with non-
aero rims.

> I have a friend who entered her first race on a department store bike, a criterium with the local
> non-licensed guys. She had to close a gap out of every corner and lost the final sprint by less
> than a wheel, due mostly to exhaustion. Had I known she had that kind of chance I would have
> loaned her some better wheels, which would have easily made enough difference for her to have won.
> A week later her new bike arrived, a Lotus Legend, a 1980s mid=level racer. Two months later she
> won the national collegiate championship road race, and two years later she won the national kilo.

That's your idea of numbers?

> Tell us what you use and why. Then I can tell you how much faster you can go without changing your
> technique or fitness.

I have no interest in trading equipment for technique or fitness. I don't ride a dept store bike,
neither did the OP. It's well established how much aero wheels will contribute, and even best case,
they're just not worth it for all but the ordained few.

 

[Peter Cole]

"JP" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Peter Cole" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<gxzTb.162365$Rc4.1268244@attbi_s54>...
>
> > To put numbers on it, the fanciest aero wheels will get you less than .5%
in a
> > typical TT. Who would care about that?
>
> Everyone who does TTs.

Well not everybody, I do TT's, and I wouldn't bother.

> You're saving a second for every two minutes you're on the course. And this is regardless of form
> or fitness.

Check your math. I'm working on the 6 seconds every 2 minutes that I know I can get by working on
technique. I guess I don't see the point of doing it "regardless of form or fitness", I thought form
& fitness was what it was all about. Silly me.

 

[Paul Kopit]

Experts can get the most out of high performance bicycles, high performance cars, and race horses.

Bicycles are the most difficult because the most important factor is the source of power not
the machine.

 

[Ed Brenton]

Well... I had no idea I would spark such a debate...

I could have been a little more informative on my original post, but I wanted to keep the
question brief.

I should have stated that I am already training like a ******* to make improvements in my leg
strength and endurance as well as my cardio and aerobic capacity. My weight is not an issue, I'm
5'9" and weigh 150 and will probably lose another 5 lbs by mid-season. Body fat % is quite low, and
again, will be lower mid-season. I race in mostly sprint triathlons, and running is my strong point.

I figured since this was a *.tech ng I could get some technical advice on equipment. Thanks very
much to everyone who responded, especially those that had advice to offer on equipment.

My decision... A good set of tires will be my fist upgrade. I've been meaning to replace the old
ones anyway as they are showing signs of serious wear and small cracks.

I'll probably buy the Performance wheels if I can get them pre-built at the nearby Performance store
for the same price that they offer them online. I'm not ready to build any wheels myself just yet,
and I figure if I get them at the shop they will offer some sort of maintenance as well.

Even if it only shaves a few seconds off, I think the confidence factor will make it worth while.

Thanks again, Ed

 

[Bruce Frech]

"Peter Cole" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:wvPTb.167639$Rc4.1289049@attbi_s54...
> "Bruce Frech" <[email protected]> wrote
> >
> > It tells the story we are talking about. And that story is about
techinical
> > changes to a bike. We are not talking about fitness. So keep to the subject.
>
> No, I was mostly talking about technique (vs. equipment), since fitness is
so
> obvious.
>

The question is about equipment.

> > I have a friend who entered her first race on a department store bike, a criterium with the
> > local non-licensed guys. She had to close a gap out
of
> > every corner and lost the final sprint by less than a wheel, due mostly
to
> > exhaustion. Had I known she had that kind of chance I would have loaned
her
> > some better wheels, which would have easily made enough difference for
her
> > to have won. A week later her new bike arrived, a Lotus Legend, a 1980s mid=level racer. Two
> > months later she won the national collegiate championship road race, and two years later she won
> > the national kilo.
>
> That's your idea of numbers?
>

you've ignored all the numbers so I gave a real life example.

> > Tell us what you use and why. Then I can tell you how much faster you
can
> > go without changing your technique or fitness.
>
> I have no interest in trading equipment for technique or fitness. I don't
ride
> a dept store bike, neither did the OP. It's well established how much aero wheels will contribute,
> and even best case, they're just not worth it for
all
> but the ordained few.
>

Yes, one to two minutes over an hour.

They are worth it for anyone who goes fast and cares. It sounds like you don't care.

 

[Peter Cole]

"Bruce Frech" <[email protected]> wrote

> >. It's well established how much aero wheels will contribute, and even best case, they're just
> > not worth it for all but the ordained few.
> >
>
> Yes, one to two minutes over an hour.
>
> They are worth it for anyone who goes fast and cares. It sounds like you don't care.

You really need to check your math. If aero wheels gave a 3% time advantage, I'd buy them too. Your
numbers are wishful thinking.

 

[Jp]

"Peter Cole" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<hHRTb.216638$na.354247@attbi_s04>...
> "JP" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > "Peter Cole" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<gxzTb.162365$Rc4.1268244@attbi_s54>...
> >
> > > To put numbers on it, the fanciest aero wheels will get you less than .5%
> in a
> > > typical TT. Who would care about that?
> >
> > Everyone who does TTs.
>
> Well not everybody, I do TT's, and I wouldn't bother.

Maybe you have never lost by a few seconds. Of course, if you did, you could do a Fignon and claim
you really won because you didn't use the winner's hitech equipment. Have you ever done that (let's
be honest), rationalized a loss because of your equipment? Your choice of equipment (leaving aside
economics because if you can't afford it, you don't have a choice) is part of your preparation, same
as everything else that goes into an event. It counts.

> > You're saving a second for every two minutes you're on the course. And this is regardless of
> > form or fitness.
>
> Check your math. I'm working on the 6 seconds every 2 minutes that I know I can get by working on
> technique.

Okay, let's call it a second every three minutes. It's really beside the point. You pull .5% out of
your hat; I pull a second every two minutes out of mine.

> I guess I don't see the point of doing it "regardless of form or fitness",

It's not whether it's worth doing regardless of form or fitness, it's whether the effect is there
regardless of form and fitness.

> I thought form & fitness was what it was all about. Silly me.

It's about who gets the best time.

So you work on your form that will get you a theoretical six seconds every two minutes. You're doing
a 50km TT. You lose by ten seconds. It was only ten seconds because you worked on your form and
fitness. You lost because of your equipment.

JP

 

[Mark Hickey]

[email protected] (JP) wrote:

>So you work on your form that will get you a theoretical six seconds every two minutes. You're
>doing a 50km TT. You lose by ten seconds. It was only ten seconds because you worked on your form
>and fitness. You lost because of your equipment.

Rather, at the beginning of the season you determine that the aero equipment you want will cost
$800. You make $20 an hour, and keep $15 of that after taxes. You do the calculations and determine
that you'll work one less hour a week and put that time into training instead. That should be enough
to improve your TT by more than six seconds.

Of course, the above doesn't apply to those with unlimited training time and money... but I don't
know too many of those people.

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame

 

[Doug Kaye]

"Peter Cole" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> It's well established how much aero wheels will contribute, and even best case, they're just not
> worth it for all but the ordained few.

I bought second hand aero wheels (Zipp and Hed) off ebay for $250 total, took more than a minute off
my usual times for 20k (sprint triathlons) and moved up onto the AG podium in several races. They're
worth it for anyone who's racing, IMO. Not only that, but I get at least fifty buck's worth of
pleasure each time, just from riding the damn things..

 

[Arthur Clune]

Mark Hickey <[email protected]> wrote:

: Rather, at the beginning of the season you determine that the aero equipment you want will cost
: $800. You make $20 an hour, and keep $15 of that after taxes. You do the calculations and
: determine that you'll work one less hour a week and put that time into training instead. That
: should be enough to improve your TT by more than six seconds.

The trouble for most employed people is that they can't determine their hours of work like that. I'm
lucky enough to do a job that's full time but doesn't require stoopid-hours per week, so I can
train. However there is no mechanism for me to work fewer hours and get paid less on any given week.
It's full time or nothing.

For those that have to do 60-70 hour weeks then I can see why they end up buying carbon wheelsets
and all the rest in an attempt to make up for the lack of training and **** hotel dinners.

All of which doesn't negate Peter's general point mind.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune http://www.clune.org "Technolibertarians make a philosophy out of a personality defect"
- Paulina Borsook

 

[Peter Cole]

"JP" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> Okay, let's call it a second every three minutes. It's really beside the point. You pull .5% out
> of your hat; I pull a second every two minutes out of mine.

I didn't pull mine out of a hat, it's based on measured aerodynamic drag of conventional wheels vs.
very slippery ones. My point is that the numbers are important.

 

[Peter Cole]

"Doug Kaye" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Peter Cole" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > It's well established how much aero wheels will contribute, and even best case, they're just not
> > worth it for
all
> > but the ordained few.
>
> I bought second hand aero wheels (Zipp and Hed) off ebay for $250 total, took more than a minute
> off my usual times for 20k (sprint triathlons)

The drag numbers don't support that much improvement.