How to replace cartridge bearings in Suntour Superbe Pro Hubs?

[[email protected]]

I know this is a long-shot given the age of the equipment, but...

I have Suntour Superbe Pro hubs on my early 80's Trek. The time has
come to replace the cartridge bearings. What sort of tools do I need
to safely remove the old bearings and (presuming I can find
replacements) insert the new ones?

Is it worth it? I have a set of NOS Suntour Superbe non-sealed
hubs. Would I just be better off building a new set of wheels?

Thanks,

Skip Montanaro
[email protected]

 

[chalo colina]

[email protected] wrote:
>
> I have Suntour Superbe Pro hubs on my early 80's Trek. The time has
> come to replace the cartridge bearings. What sort of tools do I need
> to safely remove the old bearings and (presuming I can find
> replacements) insert the new ones?

It's best to use a cartridge bearing extractor for the job, but I've
had fine results using a 3/16" steel rod bent and ground into a shape
that can reach through the hub and punch the cartridge out. Putting
the new bearing in is easier; press or tap it most of the way in, then
stack the old bearing on top and drive it down the rest of the way. Be
careful not to axially preload the bearing when you replace the axle.

This results in a hub that runs like new (with all-new bearing
surfaces), unlike a rebuilt cup & cone hub.

The bearing swap does not require special tools, but it does require
some sensitivity to avoid damaging the press fits or the new bearings.
It would not be an expensive job to take to a knowledgeable bike shop.


Chalo Colina

 

[Phil, Squid-in-Training]

chalo colina wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
>>
>> I have Suntour Superbe Pro hubs on my early 80's Trek. The time has
>> come to replace the cartridge bearings. What sort of tools do I need
>> to safely remove the old bearings and (presuming I can find
>> replacements) insert the new ones?
>
> It's best to use a cartridge bearing extractor for the job, but I've
> had fine results using a 3/16" steel rod bent and ground into a shape
> that can reach through the hub and punch the cartridge out. Putting
> the new bearing in is easier; press or tap it most of the way in, then
> stack the old bearing on top and drive it down the rest of the way.
> Be careful not to axially preload the bearing when you replace the
> axle.

It is obvious that slamming hard metal objects is not the preferred way of
building/rebuilding things. Finesse and fine adjustment are a lot better
than smashing hammers into hubs.

Are there any cartridge bearing systems that don't rely on hammering?

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

 

[Ted Bennett]

"Phil, Squid-in-Training" <[email protected]>
wrote:

> chalo colina wrote:
> > [email protected] wrote:
> >>
> >> I have Suntour Superbe Pro hubs on my early 80's Trek. The time has
> >> come to replace the cartridge bearings. What sort of tools do I need
> >> to safely remove the old bearings and (presuming I can find
> >> replacements) insert the new ones?
> >
> > It's best to use a cartridge bearing extractor for the job, but I've
> > had fine results using a 3/16" steel rod bent and ground into a shape
> > that can reach through the hub and punch the cartridge out. Putting
> > the new bearing in is easier; press or tap it most of the way in, then
> > stack the old bearing on top and drive it down the rest of the way.
> > Be careful not to axially preload the bearing when you replace the
> > axle.
>
> It is obvious that slamming hard metal objects is not the preferred way of
> building/rebuilding things. Finesse and fine adjustment are a lot better
> than smashing hammers into hubs.
>
> Are there any cartridge bearing systems that don't rely on hammering?

Finesse and hammering are not mutually incompatible concepts. Yes,
pressing in bearings is better as alignment and force can be better
controlled, but what Chalo proposes is logical and effective.

There's no "smashing" advised here.

Ted

 

[[email protected]]

Ted Bennett wrote:
> "Phil, Squid-in-Training" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >
> > It is obvious that slamming hard metal objects is not the preferred
way of
> > building/rebuilding things. Finesse and fine adjustment are a lot
better
> > than smashing hammers into hubs.
> >
> > Are there any cartridge bearing systems that don't rely on
hammering?
>
> Finesse and hammering are not mutually incompatible concepts. Yes,
> pressing in bearings is better as alignment and force can be better
> controlled, but what Chalo proposes is logical and effective.
>
> There's no "smashing" advised here.

I agree. But I'd advise this extra caution: When tapping (or
pressing) the bearing into place, you might want to apply the force on
the outer race, not the inner race.

I haven't replaced the bearings in those hubs, and perhaps it wouldn't
require enough force to make a difference, but for most bearing
installations, it's considered better practice to not transmit that
sideways load through the ball bearings.

- Frank Krygowski

 

[Phil, Squid-in-Training]

Ted Bennett wrote:
> "Phil, Squid-in-Training" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> chalo colina wrote:
>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I have Suntour Superbe Pro hubs on my early 80's Trek. The time
>>>> has come to replace the cartridge bearings. What sort of tools do
>>>> I need to safely remove the old bearings and (presuming I can find
>>>> replacements) insert the new ones?
>>>
>>> It's best to use a cartridge bearing extractor for the job, but I've
>>> had fine results using a 3/16" steel rod bent and ground into a
>>> shape that can reach through the hub and punch the cartridge out.
>>> Putting the new bearing in is easier; press or tap it most of the
>>> way in, then stack the old bearing on top and drive it down the
>>> rest of the way. Be careful not to axially preload the bearing when
>>> you replace the axle.
>>
>> It is obvious that slamming hard metal objects is not the preferred
>> way of building/rebuilding things. Finesse and fine adjustment are
>> a lot better than smashing hammers into hubs.
>>
>> Are there any cartridge bearing systems that don't rely on hammering?
>
> Finesse and hammering are not mutually incompatible concepts. Yes,
> pressing in bearings is better as alignment and force can be better
> controlled, but what Chalo proposes is logical and effective.
>
> There's no "smashing" advised here.
>
> Ted

Okay, then. Are there any cartridge bearing systems that don't rely on
impact methods to rebuild the bearings?

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

 

[philcycles]

[email protected] wrote:
> I know this is a long-shot given the age of the equipment, but...
>
> I have Suntour Superbe Pro hubs on my early 80's Trek. The time has
> come to replace the cartridge bearings. What sort of tools do I need
> to safely remove the old bearings and (presuming I can find
> replacements) insert the new ones?
>
> Is it worth it? I have a set of NOS Suntour Superbe non-sealed
> hubs. Would I just be better off building a new set of wheels?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Skip Montanaro
> [email protected]

Loose Screws used to sell pullers for these hubs.
Phil Brown

 

[Ted Bennett]

In article <[email protected]>,
"Phil, Squid-in-Training" <[email protected]>
wrote:

> Ted Bennett wrote:
> > "Phil, Squid-in-Training" <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> chalo colina wrote:
> >>> [email protected] wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> I have Suntour Superbe Pro hubs on my early 80's Trek. The time
> >>>> has come to replace the cartridge bearings. What sort of tools do
> >>>> I need to safely remove the old bearings and (presuming I can find
> >>>> replacements) insert the new ones?
> >>>
> >>> It's best to use a cartridge bearing extractor for the job, but I've
> >>> had fine results using a 3/16" steel rod bent and ground into a
> >>> shape that can reach through the hub and punch the cartridge out.
> >>> Putting the new bearing in is easier; press or tap it most of the
> >>> way in, then stack the old bearing on top and drive it down the
> >>> rest of the way. Be careful not to axially preload the bearing when
> >>> you replace the axle.
> >>
> >> It is obvious that slamming hard metal objects is not the preferred
> >> way of building/rebuilding things. Finesse and fine adjustment are
> >> a lot better than smashing hammers into hubs.
> >>
> >> Are there any cartridge bearing systems that don't rely on hammering?
> >
> > Finesse and hammering are not mutually incompatible concepts. Yes,
> > pressing in bearings is better as alignment and force can be better
> > controlled, but what Chalo proposes is logical and effective.
> >
> > There's no "smashing" advised here.
> >
> > Ted
>
> Okay, then. Are there any cartridge bearing systems that don't rely on
> impact methods to rebuild the bearings?

All of them. You have the choice which method you want to use. Most of
us don't have a press of the right configuration handy, so tapping it in
(carefully!) is usually the way to go.

--
Ted Bennett

 

[Ted Bennett]

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] wrote:

> Ted Bennett wrote:
> > "Phil, Squid-in-Training" <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > It is obvious that slamming hard metal objects is not the preferred
> way of
> > > building/rebuilding things. Finesse and fine adjustment are a lot
> better
> > > than smashing hammers into hubs.
> > >
> > > Are there any cartridge bearing systems that don't rely on
> hammering?
> >
> > Finesse and hammering are not mutually incompatible concepts. Yes,
> > pressing in bearings is better as alignment and force can be better
> > controlled, but what Chalo proposes is logical and effective.
> >
> > There's no "smashing" advised here.
>
> I agree. But I'd advise this extra caution: When tapping (or
> pressing) the bearing into place, you might want to apply the force on
> the outer race, not the inner race.
>
> I haven't replaced the bearings in those hubs, and perhaps it wouldn't
> require enough force to make a difference, but for most bearing
> installations, it's considered better practice to not transmit that
> sideways load through the ball bearings.
>
> - Frank Krygowski

You are absolutely right. That's what Chalo originally wrote.

--
Ted Bennett

 

[Mark Janeba]

philcycles wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
>
>>I know this is a long-shot given the age of the equipment, but...
>>
>>I have Suntour Superbe Pro hubs on my early 80's Trek. The time has
>>come to replace the cartridge bearings. What sort of tools do I need
>>to safely remove the old bearings and (presuming I can find
>>replacements) insert the new ones?
>>
>>Is it worth it? I have a set of NOS Suntour Superbe non-sealed
>>hubs. Would I just be better off building a new set of wheels?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Skip Montanaro
>>[email protected]
>
>
> Loose Screws used to sell pullers for these hubs.
> Phil Brown

Yes, you see these pullers fairly regularly on Ebay.

Mark Janeba

 

[B.C. Cletta]

> Are there any cartridge bearing systems that don't rely on hammering?

it's easy enuff to setup a press using some all-thread, nuts &
washers/old bearings, just like you would do to press in a HS.
depending on your washer selection you might get away with using the
axle. the kit i bought for my Specialized SB hubs, 20 yrs back, came
with special washers to use.

BTW, if the OP's Superbe hubs are like mine, they are freakin' great,
it's a angular contact cartridge bearing, without the outer outer and
the inner inner races (got that?) just like a CC bearing so it can be
serviced. if the bearing is completely toast, it's a cartridge
bearing.
<http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNPDFF?PMPAGE=3786>

 

[chalo colina]

Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:
>
> chalo colina wrote:
> >
> > Putting
> > the new bearing in is easier; press or tap it most of the way
> > in, then stack the old bearing on top and drive it down the
> > rest of the way. Be careful not to axially preload the
> > bearing when you replace the axle.
>
> It is obvious that slamming hard metal objects is not the
> preferred way of building/rebuilding things. Finesse and fine
> adjustment are a lot better than smashing hammers into hubs.
>
> Are there any cartridge bearing systems that don't rely on
> hammering?

You can use an arbor press, or a drill press, or a piece of allthread
and some washers, or a mallet. I'd worry more about the allthread &
washer method myself. If the washers become dished under the pressure,
you can apply a nasty axial overload to the inner race.

I am a machinist by trade, and I have arbor presses, hydraulic presses,
drill presses, and vertical mills available to me. But I usually use a
rawhide mallet and some kind of cylindrical punch to install hub
bearings.

It doesn't usually matter what you use to drive in the new bearing,
because the press fit isn't usually very tight and there isn't much
force involved. Sometimes you can just slip the bearings in with your
fingers.

When mechanical force is required, you have to exercise a little
sensitivity about what you are doing, not just bash on the thing any
which way. This rule applies whether you use a mallet, a press, or
some purpose-made gizmo. That's why I mentioned it the first time.

Chalo Colina

 

[B.C. Cletta]

> It doesn't usually matter what you use to drive in the new
> bearing, because the press fit isn't usually very tight and
> there isn't much force involved. Sometimes you can just
> slip the bearings in with your fingers.

most CB used on bicycles hubs are radial bearings and designed for a
radial load (duh). any lateral loads should be avoided. sometimes the
design is for one side to be fixed, pressed into place, while the other
side floats to relieve any lateral loading. my Bullseye use this & i'd
guess Phil FSA do the same.
so resist any urge to fix the sloppy fix with some Loctite unless you
know what you're doing.

 

[B.C. Cletta]

> It doesn't usually matter what you use to drive in the new
> bearing, because the press fit isn't usually very tight and
> there isn't much force involved. Sometimes you can just
> slip the bearings in with your fingers.

most CB used on bicycles hubs are radial bearings and designed for a
radial load (duh). any lateral loads should be avoided. sometimes the
design is for one side to be fixed, pressed into place, while the other
side floats to relieve any lateral loading. my Bullseye use this & i'd
guess Phil FSA do the same.
so resist any urge to fix the sloppy fix with some Loctite unless you
know what you're doing.

 

[Donald Gillies]

[email protected] writes:

>I have Suntour Superbe Pro hubs on my early 80's Trek. The time has
>come to replace the cartridge bearings. What sort of tools do I need
>to safely remove the old bearings and (presuming I can find
>replacements) insert the new ones?

This is the amusing thing about cartridge-bearing sealed mechanism
devices. People rave about the durability and low maintenance until
they (or a shop) destroys the item on the first rebuild. After that,
they don't rave so much about the durability any more ...

The book "Effective Cycling" has a long section about replacing the
bearings on sealed bearing hubs.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

 

[Chalo]

B.C. Cletta wrote:
>
> Chalo wrote:
> >
> > It doesn't usually matter what you use to drive in the new
> > bearing, because the press fit isn't usually very tight and
> > there isn't much force involved. Sometimes you can just
> > slip the bearings in with your fingers.
>
> most CB used on bicycles hubs are radial bearings and designed for a
> radial load (duh). any lateral loads should be avoided. sometimes
the
> design is for one side to be fixed, pressed into place, while the
other
> side floats to relieve any lateral loading. my Bullseye use this &
i'd
> guess Phil FSA do the same.
> so resist any urge to fix the sloppy fix with some Loctite unless you
> know what you're doing.

Bike cartridge bearings are almost entirely "deep groove radial
contact" units whose axial load rating is approximately 50% of their
radial load rating.

Roger Durham of Bullseye fixed one of the two cartridges in his hubs
with Loctite. To my knowledge, no other manufacturers have used
Loctite in their assemblies.

The main cause for concern about radial loading is in cartridge hubs
like Sansin, Specialized and (IIRC) Suntour, where a threaded axle and
cylindrical "cones" are used. If these are adjusted to the same
tension that would be appropriate for a cup & cone hub, an axial
overload condition is likely to result upon tightening the QR.

Chalo Colina