How to ride this kind of road safely?



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"Matt O'Toole" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Hunrobe" <[email protected]> wrote...
> > >zeldabee [email protected] wrote:
>
> > >And just when they're right behind you is often when, helpfully, the driver decides to honk
> > >her/his horn, just to let you know s/he's there.
>
> > The short honk of the horn is misguided but I can live with it.
>
> In most of the world, a short honk is interpreted as a friendly warning, or even a hello. This is
> helpful, considerate, and friendly communication that enhances safety. It's unfortunate that in
> much of the US, any use of the horn is interpreted as an angry gesture. This is stupid.

The trouble is, the honk just as the car is right behind you can have a tendency to startle. The
approaching car has the responsibility to pass only when it's safe. The warning is unnecessary. I
don't interperet the honk as angry, it is just, IMO, stupid. Unthinking.

> Perhaps we need a public education campaign like the one underway now in the Southeast, for using
> headlights to say "please" and "thank you," and most importantly, "I'm sorry."

I agree, if by that you mean a public education campaign to teach people not to honk at cyclists
(unless the cyclist is doing something obviously dangerous or stupid). For that matter, a campaign
to educate both motorists and cyclists about the rules of the road and common courtesy wouldn't be a
bad idea, either.

--
z e l d a b e e @ p a n i x . c o m http://NewsReader.Com/
 
zeldabee wrote:

> I agree, if by that you mean a public education campaign to teach people not to honk at cyclists
> (unless the cyclist is doing something obviously dangerous or stupid). For that matter, a campaign
> to educate both motorists and cyclists about the rules of the road and common courtesy wouldn't be
> a bad idea, either.

It's been a while since I looked through the Massachusetts drivers "manual" given out by the DMV for
people taking tests for a drivers license.

As I recall, there were *very general* statements about people on foot or bicycle having right of
way, and caution was required by motorists when interacting with them. Not much detail, and probably
too easy to miss on a driver's test.

My thinking is that "bad behavior" on the part of motorists, whether directed towards pedestrians,
bicyclists or other motorists, is rarely due to ignorance.

It's just plain selfishness ("I don't care"), and all the education in the world isn't going
to fix that.

Better enforcement might be the way to go, but not too many cops are inclined to go after a motorist
being rude, or even overly aggressive, a bicyclist or otherwise.

SMH
 
"zeldabee" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...

> I agree, if by that you mean a public education campaign to teach people not to honk at cyclists
> (unless the cyclist is doing something obviously dangerous or stupid). For that matter, a campaign
> to educate both motorists and cyclists about the rules of the road and common courtesy wouldn't be
> a bad idea, either.

IMO, many of the problems on our roads could be solved with better education. States and countries
with the best driver education programs have the safest roads -- period. States where this lags, and
where there's a high percentage of unlicensed drivers, have the most dangerous roads (like South
Carolina). After all, car accidents are one of our biggest public health problems. A little
education would go a long way, in terms of cost effectiveness.

This latest campaign with the headlight codes is a good one, because it emphasizes courtesy,
communication, and courteous interaction. Restating the same old **** people have been hearing for
years just goes in one ear and out the other.

Matt O.
 
"Stephen Harding" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...

> As I recall, there were *very general* statements about people on foot or bicycle having right of
> way, and caution was required by motorists when interacting with them. Not much detail, and
> probably too easy to miss on a driver's test.

It's been a long time since I took one of these tests, but I remember a fair number of good,
bicycle-related questions in the CA exam.

Matt O.
 
> In most of the world, a short honk is interpreted as a friendly warning,
or even
> a hello. This is helpful, considerate, and friendly communication that
enhances
> safety. It's unfortunate that in much of the US, any use of the horn is interpreted as an angry
> gesture. This is stupid.

No, it's not. To me a horn is a loud, abrupt, unnecessary noise that serves no useful purpose. I can
hear traffic coming up behind me. I don't need a horn to startle me.
 
On Wed, 11 Jun 2003 01:29:46 GMT, "Robert Oliver" <[email protected]> wrote:

>> In most of the world, a short honk is interpreted as a friendly warning,
>
>No, it's not. To me a horn is a loud, abrupt, unnecessary noise that serves no useful purpose. I
>can hear traffic coming up behind me. I don't need a horn to startle me.

I used to think to myself when someone honked. "I've been hearing them since they were two miles
back, seeing them in my nerdy eyeglass mirror since they were a mile back, and smelling them coming
from half a mile away. Looks like they finally saw ME so they want to let me know they're there".

Clueless.
 
On Mon, 09 Jun 2003 19:30:51 GMT in rec.bicycles.misc, "Matt O'Toole" <[email protected]> wrote:

> In most of the world, a short honk is interpreted as a friendly warning, or even a hello. This is
> helpful, considerate, and friendly communication that enhances safety.

NO, it is NOT a "friendly warning" to most cyclists, especially since honkers always honk when they
are so close to cyclists that honking can easily rattle or disturb a cyclist, causing the cyclist to
veer into the path of the oncoming car.

honking in general is definitely rude, and is rarely required. honking should be used to warn
drivers and other road users (including cyclists) when there is real danger, not as a "greeting".
 
>> Zoot Katz <[email protected]> wrote: On B.C. highways, when an aproaching vehicle puts on
>> their left turn signal, and there's obviously no place for them to be turning, it generally means
>> there are rocks on the road ahead.

>mark freedman at [email protected] wrote on 6/10/03 6:44 AM: ... or that the driver is elderly :)
>(gee, I find my left arm gets tired when I ride along for miles and miles signalling a left turn)

Isometrics!

While urban cycling I frequently 'hold' the arm signals through the whole traffic light cycle, as a
bit of cyclist and driver education. Hardly anyone knows the hand signals.
 
Thu, 12 Jun 2003 15:44:49 -0400, <BB0E5070.12E64%[email protected]>, Jay <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>While urban cycling I frequently 'hold' the arm signals through the whole traffic light cycle, as a
>bit of cyclist and driver education. Hardly anyone knows the hand signals.

Like the stunned turd who was trying to be polite when he stopped for me to make a left turn in
front of him. I was signalling because there was traffic approaching from behind and I didn't want
the pod of opposing traffic to freak when they saw a bike that close to the center line. This idiot
was the last car in the cluster and he kept slowing down until he stopped, with me screaming at him
to "KEEP MOVING!" because the following traffic was closing quickly. I ended up looping around
behind him. He may have thought my signal was requesting him to stop for me. Idiots!
--
zk
 
Jay <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<BB0E5070.12E64%[email protected]>...

>> >mark freedman at [email protected] wrote on 6/10/03 6:44 AM:
> > ... or that the driver is elderly :) (gee, I find my left arm gets tired when I ride along for
> > miles and miles signalling a left turn)
>
> Isometrics!
>
> While urban cycling I frequently 'hold' the arm signals through the whole traffic light cycle, as
> a bit of cyclist and driver education.

> Hardly anyone knows the hand signals.

I see lots of people using hand signals. oh. You meant hand signals relating to turning and
stopping. Never mind.

(It's a shame the Vulcan "Live long and perspire" is so hard to do for many people (like me).
That's a nice wish to send towards a fellow cyclist.)

tfn
 
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (mark
freedman) wrote:

> Jay <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<BB0E5070.12E64%[email protected]>...
>
> >> >mark freedman at [email protected] wrote on 6/10/03 6:44 AM:

> > Hardly anyone knows the hand signals.
>
> I see lots of people using hand signals. oh. You meant hand signals relating to turning and
> stopping. Never mind.
>
> (It's a shame the Vulcan "Live long and perspire" is so hard to do for many people (like me).
> That's a nice wish to send towards a fellow cyclist.)

Yes, sending the message "I am an unreconstructed geek, or possibly a cohen" is terribly
interesting.

Really, it's okay, just give me a little nod as we pass each other,
--
Ryan Cousineau, [email protected] http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club
 
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