how to run in bike shoe in a triatholon



A

aa

Guest
Hello,
Coming out of transition, i have to run for about 100m with my bike
shoes on. Any body would know these are not the best thing to run in.
What do people do to get around this? Put them on, on the road, leave
them on the pedals and slip in after they get on the bike?
 
"aa" <[email protected]> wrote in news:1155082640.414289.270500
@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

> Hello,
> Coming out of transition, i have to run for about 100m with my bike
> shoes on. Any body would know these are not the best thing to run in.
> What do people do to get around this? Put them on, on the road, leave
> them on the pedals and slip in after they get on the bike?
>
>


A lot of folks leave them on the bike and slip them on after they mount.
I've never been comfortable doing that, so I just run with the shoes on.
Another option not used often is to run with the bike and shoes in you
hand to somewhwere close to the mount line, then slip the shoes on. Just
be sure you can do this without blocking the progress of others.
 
In article <[email protected]>,
"aa" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Hello,
> Coming out of transition, i have to run for about 100m with my bike
> shoes on. Any body would know these are not the best thing to run in.
> What do people do to get around this? Put them on, on the road, leave
> them on the pedals and slip in after they get on the bike?
>



Just use your bike for balance as you run. After a little prractice,
it's not so bad.

--Harold Buck


"Hubris always wins in the end. The Greeks taught us that."

-Homer J. Simpson
 
"aa" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hello,
> Coming out of transition, i have to run for about 100m with my bike
> shoes on. Any body would know these are not the best thing to run in.
> What do people do to get around this? Put them on, on the road, leave
> them on the pedals and slip in after they get on the bike?
>


A lot of people leave the shoes on the bike and run barefoot.

One idea that that might work for you is using mountain bike shoes/pedals
instead of road kit. e.g. SPD. Only a little heavier these days, and a
much better sole for running on. A lot of shoes have 2 larger straps so
they're not too bad to get on in a hurry in T1. Then just run out and jump
straight on. SPD type pedals are also easier to clip into (if you're
feeling a bit squiffy after the swim). Because of the sole around the
cleat, the cleat doesn't get mauled if it comes into contact with asphalt or
gravel like 'Looks' do.

I'm fairly new to this lark, but not to bikes. this is my

Skippy
E&OE
 
Skippy wrote:
> "aa" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Hello,
> > Coming out of transition, i have to run for about 100m with my bike
> > shoes on. Any body would know these are not the best thing to run in.
> > What do people do to get around this? Put them on, on the road, leave
> > them on the pedals and slip in after they get on the bike?
> >

>
> A lot of people leave the shoes on the bike and run barefoot.
>
> One idea that that might work for you is using mountain bike shoes/pedals
> instead of road kit. e.g. SPD. Only a little heavier these days, and a
> much better sole for running on. A lot of shoes have 2 larger straps so
> they're not too bad to get on in a hurry in T1. Then just run out and jump
> straight on. SPD type pedals are also easier to clip into (if you're
> feeling a bit squiffy after the swim). Because of the sole around the
> cleat, the cleat doesn't get mauled if it comes into contact with asphalt or
> gravel like 'Looks' do.


Not worth it IMHO - might save you a couple of seconds in T1, but would
probably cost you more than that on the bike plus is it worth forking
out for a new pair of shoes and pedals so you can run 100 yards in
slightly greater comfort?

>
> I'm fairly new to this lark, but not to bikes. this is my
>
> Skippy
> E&OE
 
"Rookie" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Skippy wrote:
>> "aa" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> > Hello,
>> > Coming out of transition, i have to run for about 100m with my bike
>> > shoes on. Any body would know these are not the best thing to run in.
>> > What do people do to get around this? Put them on, on the road, leave
>> > them on the pedals and slip in after they get on the bike?
>> >

>>
>> A lot of people leave the shoes on the bike and run barefoot.
>>
>> One idea that that might work for you is using mountain bike shoes/pedals
>> instead of road kit. e.g. SPD. Only a little heavier these days, and a
>> much better sole for running on. A lot of shoes have 2 larger straps so
>> they're not too bad to get on in a hurry in T1. Then just run out and
>> jump
>> straight on. SPD type pedals are also easier to clip into (if you're
>> feeling a bit squiffy after the swim). Because of the sole around the
>> cleat, the cleat doesn't get mauled if it comes into contact with asphalt
>> or
>> gravel like 'Looks' do.

>
> Not worth it IMHO - might save you a couple of seconds in T1, but would
> probably cost you more than that on the bike plus is it worth forking
> out for a new pair of shoes and pedals so you can run 100 yards in
> slightly greater comfort?


Ok. Where do you loose time? I agree that if you've already got road
shoes, it probably isn't worth it. I only suggested it as the OP was
worried about running on cleats.

Skippy
E&OE

>
>>
>> I'm fairly new to this lark, but not to bikes. this is my
>>
>> Skippy
>> E&OE

>
 
In article <[email protected]>,
"Skippy" <[email protected]> wrote:

> > Not worth it IMHO - might save you a couple of seconds in T1, but would
> > probably cost you more than that on the bike plus is it worth forking
> > out for a new pair of shoes and pedals so you can run 100 yards in
> > slightly greater comfort?

>
> Ok. Where do you loose time? I agree that if you've already got road
> shoes, it probably isn't worth it. I only suggested it as the OP was
> worried about running on cleats.


You lose time by not having as stiff a sole on the shoe.

--Harold Buck


"Hubris always wins in the end. The Greeks taught us that."

-Homer J. Simpson
 
Rookie wrote:
>
> Not worth it IMHO - might save you a couple of seconds in T1, but would
> probably cost you more than that on the bike plus is it worth forking
> out for a new pair of shoes and pedals so you can run 100 yards in
> slightly greater comfort?
>


Not worth it if you already have road shoes, but if you are
contemplating whether to buy MTB or road shoes then it is worth
considering. I've used MTB shoes for the last 3 seasons and have never
thought of moving to road shoes (of course I probably would if i went up
to half or full IM distance).

DaveB
 
"Harold Buck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Skippy" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> > Not worth it IMHO - might save you a couple of seconds in T1, but would
>> > probably cost you more than that on the bike plus is it worth forking
>> > out for a new pair of shoes and pedals so you can run 100 yards in
>> > slightly greater comfort?

>>
>> Ok. Where do you loose time? I agree that if you've already got road
>> shoes, it probably isn't worth it. I only suggested it as the OP was
>> worried about running on cleats.

>
> You lose time by not having as stiff a sole on the shoe.


I'm not sure it's that significant. The soles on my mountain bike shoes are
pretty similar construction to my road bike ones. The pedal interface is
bigger, granted. I can't say that when feel the SPD shoes flexing much.
Incidentally a lot of the 'better' mountain bike shoes have carbon composite
soles like the road shoes. Has anyone measured the losses from different
shoes?

Skippy
E&OE

>
> --Harold Buck
>
>
> "Hubris always wins in the end. The Greeks taught us that."
>
> -Homer J. Simpson
 
While there is some merit to discussing the construction and stifness
of MTB vs Road shoes, it really is getting off the point.

Its not difficult to learn to do a running mount with your shoes
already on your pedals. Doing it this way can save anything from
30-seconds to 120-seconds depending on length of the transition area
etc. and the speed with which you can stand still in transition and get
your shoes on.

If I told you that you could save 90-seconds in your swim for an hours
practise you'd be out doing it this afternoon. You just need to apply
the same to transition practise. I regularly come top-10 overall in
transition times in races, often beating pro's, given my running is
hampered by a severaly disfigured right leg this is both surprising and
I need to save time where I can. See my blog from last Sundays race
where I was 7th overall in T1 including a number of elite, . I was
10th in T1 in the 2002 World Age group champs.

The secret is to find a field or astro turf area where you can
practise. You just need your bike, helmet, shoes and 20-24 1-inch
elastic bands and a bucket. he bucket is needed as a transition stand.
a chair could also be used. You attach the bands to the shoes either by
the small heal loop, or if your shoes don't have one, the small heal
raise on most shoes. Then attach the band to somewhere that will hold
the shoes parallel while you run with the bike.

You then rest the bike against the bucket, walk back 50yds, sprint to
the bike, helmet on, grab the bike run foward at least 50yds and then
leap on, cycle for a short distance; get off; walk back; reset your
equipment; go back and do it again and again and again until you can
make a faultless smooth transition from running to cycling, not stops.
Its important to have a decent run either side of the bike to simulate
race conditions.

Once you can do this, you can then go out on the street somewhere quiet
and practise getting your feet in your shoes and doing them up. This
has to be done at a reasonable speed 14-18mph, no 8-10mph wobbles
please.

I've described the steps for the whole process here in a blog post:
http://triman.livejournal.com/36967.html?mode=reply

Once you've managed going out, you can master coming back in. I
overtook 12 people in the last 50m of Sundays race. The amount of
messing about, and the slowness of people always amuses me, then I
remember I was once like that, a novice, then I put the practise in!
 
DaveB wrote:
> Rookie wrote:
> >
> > Not worth it IMHO - might save you a couple of seconds in T1, but would
> > probably cost you more than that on the bike plus is it worth forking
> > out for a new pair of shoes and pedals so you can run 100 yards in
> > slightly greater comfort?
> >

>
> Not worth it if you already have road shoes, but if you are
> contemplating whether to buy MTB or road shoes then it is worth
> considering. I've used MTB shoes for the last 3 seasons and have never
> thought of moving to road shoes (of course I probably would if i went up
> to half or full IM distance).
>
> DaveB


The irony is that IM is the one distance where I wish I had used MTB
shoes - have never experienced problems before but raceday was so hot
that my feet swelled up and the stiffness of my bike shoes was killing
me. Had the unusual side effect of making me eager to get onto the run
and pull on some cushioned soles though!
 
"Mark Cathcart" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> While there is some merit to discussing the construction and stifness
> of MTB vs Road shoes, it really is getting off the point.
>
> Its not difficult to learn to do a running mount with your shoes
> already on your pedals. Doing it this way can save anything from
> 30-seconds to 120-seconds depending on length of the transition area
> etc. and the speed with which you can stand still in transition and get
> your shoes on.
>
> If I told you that you could save 90-seconds in your swim for an hours
> practise you'd be out doing it this afternoon. You just need to apply
> the same to transition practise. I regularly come top-10 overall in
> transition times in races, often beating pro's, given my running is
> hampered by a severaly disfigured right leg this is both surprising and
> I need to save time where I can. See my blog from last Sundays race
> where I was 7th overall in T1 including a number of elite, . I was
> 10th in T1 in the 2002 World Age group champs.
>
> The secret is to find a field or astro turf area where you can
> practise. You just need your bike, helmet, shoes and 20-24 1-inch
> elastic bands and a bucket. he bucket is needed as a transition stand.
> a chair could also be used. You attach the bands to the shoes either by
> the small heal loop, or if your shoes don't have one, the small heal
> raise on most shoes. Then attach the band to somewhere that will hold
> the shoes parallel while you run with the bike.
>
> You then rest the bike against the bucket, walk back 50yds, sprint to
> the bike, helmet on, grab the bike run foward at least 50yds and then
> leap on, cycle for a short distance; get off; walk back; reset your
> equipment; go back and do it again and again and again until you can
> make a faultless smooth transition from running to cycling, not stops.
> Its important to have a decent run either side of the bike to simulate
> race conditions.
>
> Once you can do this, you can then go out on the street somewhere quiet
> and practise getting your feet in your shoes and doing them up. This
> has to be done at a reasonable speed 14-18mph, no 8-10mph wobbles
> please.
>
> I've described the steps for the whole process here in a blog post:
> http://triman.livejournal.com/36967.html?mode=reply
>
> Once you've managed going out, you can master coming back in. I
> overtook 12 people in the last 50m of Sundays race. The amount of
> messing about, and the slowness of people always amuses me, then I
> remember I was once like that, a novice, then I put the practise in!
>


If it works, that's good. How long does it take you to fasten your shoes on
the bike?

Must go train.
 
Skippy wrote:
> "Mark Cathcart" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>While there is some merit to discussing the construction and stifness
>>of MTB vs Road shoes, it really is getting off the point.
>>
>>Its not difficult to learn to do a running mount with your shoes
>>already on your pedals. Doing it this way can save anything from
>>30-seconds to 120-seconds depending on length of the transition area
>>etc. and the speed with which you can stand still in transition and get
>>your shoes on.
>>
>>If I told you that you could save 90-seconds in your swim for an hours
>>practise you'd be out doing it this afternoon. You just need to apply
>>the same to transition practise. I regularly come top-10 overall in
>>transition times in races, often beating pro's, given my running is
>>hampered by a severaly disfigured right leg this is both surprising and
>>I need to save time where I can. See my blog from last Sundays race
>>where I was 7th overall in T1 including a number of elite, . I was
>>10th in T1 in the 2002 World Age group champs.
>>
>>The secret is to find a field or astro turf area where you can
>>practise. You just need your bike, helmet, shoes and 20-24 1-inch
>>elastic bands and a bucket. he bucket is needed as a transition stand.
>>a chair could also be used. You attach the bands to the shoes either by
>>the small heal loop, or if your shoes don't have one, the small heal
>>raise on most shoes. Then attach the band to somewhere that will hold
>>the shoes parallel while you run with the bike.
>>
>>You then rest the bike against the bucket, walk back 50yds, sprint to
>>the bike, helmet on, grab the bike run foward at least 50yds and then
>>leap on, cycle for a short distance; get off; walk back; reset your
>>equipment; go back and do it again and again and again until you can
>>make a faultless smooth transition from running to cycling, not stops.
>>Its important to have a decent run either side of the bike to simulate
>>race conditions.
>>
>>Once you can do this, you can then go out on the street somewhere quiet
>>and practise getting your feet in your shoes and doing them up. This
>>has to be done at a reasonable speed 14-18mph, no 8-10mph wobbles
>>please.
>>
>>I've described the steps for the whole process here in a blog post:
>>http://triman.livejournal.com/36967.html?mode=reply
>>
>>Once you've managed going out, you can master coming back in. I
>>overtook 12 people in the last 50m of Sundays race. The amount of
>>messing about, and the slowness of people always amuses me, then I
>>remember I was once like that, a novice, then I put the practise in!
>>

>


Hello,

I have a Flatwing bottle holder behind my seat. Have you seen people do
this with that kind of an obstacle?

thanks,
Bob
 
Mark Cathcart wrote:
> While there is some merit to discussing the construction and stifness
> of MTB vs Road shoes, it really is getting off the point.
>
> Its not difficult to learn to do a running mount with your shoes
> already on your pedals. Doing it this way can save anything from
> 30-seconds to 120-seconds depending on length of the transition area
> etc. and the speed with which you can stand still in transition and get
> your shoes on.
>
> If I told you that you could save 90-seconds in your swim for an hours
> practise you'd be out doing it this afternoon.


If you told me it takes you 90 seconds to put MTB shoes on in transition
I'd be wondering what on earth you are doing. It takes me 20 seconds to
put my MTB shoes on. On the run out of transition I usually overtake a
few others (and I'm a very slow runner), and then ove rthe first 50
metres of the bike leg I overtake a few more who are stuffing around
with getting their feet into the shoes.

DaveB
 
Mark Cathcart wrote:
<snip>
> Once you've managed going out, you can master coming back in. I
> overtook 12 people in the last 50m of Sundays race. The amount of
> messing about, and the slowness of people always amuses me, then I
> remember I was once like that, a novice, then I put the practise in!


Didn't they have a green zone (no overtaking) in the last 50m?

Tam
 
Tamyka Bell wrote:

> Didn't they have a green zone (no overtaking) in the last 50m?


Never heard of such a thing in USAT or BTA races. How would you police
or enforce it?

Do I have to wait behind some newbie who is struggling to unclip one
foot?
 
Bob Haase wrote:

> I have a Flatwing bottle holder behind my seat. Have you seen people do
> this with that kind of an obstacle?


Not sure what a flat wing is, but my race bike has a Profile two-bottle
cage behind the seat and I don't have any problems with that. You can
see it/me waddling out to the mount line in this video clip on my way
out of T1 in the iron distance Longest Day where I also used a running
mount with shoes already on the pedals.
http://www.stuweb.co.uk/swp/default.asp?a=41&e=98&rn=159

I doubt its a problem though, if you think about it, your left foot
will already be on top of a shoe on a pedal, probably 2-3 inches off
the ground, which makes swinging your right leg over the bottle holder
and saddle that much easier.
 
Skippy wrote:
> If it works, that's good. How long does it take you to fasten your shoes on
> the bike?


Depends how you count, however long, its not lost time though since you
are still moving. I tried to see from the Garmin data from my Sprint
last Sunday,
http://trail.motionbased.com/trail/player2/view.mb?episodePkValues=1156055

If you set the speed to 1x and then press play, followed by the
right/eft arrow keys you can step through my bike ride. I was quickly
doing 21mph, my speed the dropped to 18MPH, 17 and 14MPH while I put my
first foot in the shoe, then took the first corner, sped up to 21MPH
again and did the 2nd foot where my speed never dropped below 17MPH.
So, maybe a minute to actually put my feet in both shoes and do them
up, but this wasn't lost time as I was still travelling at probably an
average of 17+MPH

I would say I'd normally be slightly quicker than this. I leave my old
kit, oldest bike and a pair of beat up old Luck triathlon shoes with my
buddy in St Pete to save dragging them back and forwards. For important
races I have a pair of Carnac TRS8s that close from the outside to the
inside which are even easier still.

On the way back in there is NO decrease is speed as I take my feet out
of the shoes, I'm going at 18MPH until the last 30ft when my speed goes
to 16, 12, 10 and 1MPH once I'm off the bike. In case there is any
suggestion I didn;t take my feet out, here I am heading towards the
dismount line
http://image4.myraceday.com/815/3/l/l3m6d1k0w2q4g0j8g6a8n8n.jpg

I just takes practice!
 
DaveB wrote:

> If you told me it takes you 90 seconds to put MTB shoes on in transition
> I'd be wondering what on earth you are doing. It takes me 20 seconds to
> put my MTB shoes on. On the run out of transition I usually overtake a
> few others (and I'm a very slow runner), and then ove rthe first 50
> metres of the bike leg I overtake a few more who are stuffing around
> with getting their feet into the shoes.



And thats great, but it still not a reason to use MTB shoes. Do you not
stop at all when you get to the mount line? If it is one swift movement
onto the pedal, over the saddle and onto the other pedal then great.
Otherwise you can still save a few more seconds, so lets call it
25-seconds and agree that there is no noticeable difference in
stiffness between MTB/Road/Triathlon shoes.

If you check my race results from this past Sundays race
http://www.altavistasports.com/results/2006results/topgun080506.html

I was in the 45-49 age group and had a 1-min, 3-second T1. No wetsuit,
including about a 10th of a mile run.... Apart from the time putting
the crash helmet on there is no dead time in this.

Yes, I admit, from time to time where the run from the water to the
bike and mount line is short, I put my left foot on the shoe and it
slips off the top, but its easily recovered. So its not perfect but
still a lot better than standing or worse sitting in transition to put
your shoes on. There are no dizzy feelings when you bend down to fasten
your shoes having just come from the swim; no chance of the bozo on the
same transition rack bumping into you on his way out with his bike...
its simpler and quicker.

Of course, I hope none of you go out and actually do the practise and
get better at transitions since its really the only thing I'm good
at...
 
In article <[email protected]>,
Tamyka Bell <[email protected]> wrote:

> Mark Cathcart wrote:
> <snip>
> > Once you've managed going out, you can master coming back in. I
> > overtook 12 people in the last 50m of Sundays race. The amount of
> > messing about, and the slowness of people always amuses me, then I
> > remember I was once like that, a novice, then I put the practise in!

>
> Didn't they have a green zone (no overtaking) in the last 50m?



I'm so confused. How can a faster transition allow you to over take
people in the last 50 m of the race, which in most tris is the end of
the run?

I've never heard of the "green zone," but it sounds like a dumb idea. I
get my friend to ride right behind me, then have him walk his bike
veeeeerrrry slowly for that last 50m over, say, 10 minutes. If no one
can pass him, that should give me enough of a lead to really help my
overall place.

--Harold Buck


"Hubris always wins in the end. The Greeks taught us that."

-Homer J. Simpson