I am considering an SL 2.4 wireless when it comes out but the sheer number of PT problem posts has me worried. Compared to the number of SRM problem posts there seems to be quite a disparity in the return rates. Have the problems been fixed in newer PT models or is there something more serious going on with design/QC?
How trouble prone is PT SL?
- Thread starter mises
- Start date
Most of the PT SL problems stem from three core issues: (1) moisture in the hub, (2) vibration transfer from the frame to the receiver and (3) the HR receiver. I have never personally had moisture problems with my SL, but I don't ride in the rain. I think they have continued to improve the water tightness of successive models. I think most of the moisture problems are solved by simply removing the cap and air drying the hub for a day or two. The vibration issue is solved with the appropriate installation procedure. I hope the HR receiver issue has been fixed with the SL2.4, but I haven't yet talked with Saris about whether they have replaced the shoddy HR receiver in the SL computer. I sure hope so because the HR receiver in the SL is a piece of junk.
I think something to bear in mind here is that due to the relative costs of the units (especially PT's on eBay) that there are far, far more new PT's floating about in the market place. As a result there is always going to be a feeling that the units are more troublesome. I personally wouldn't worry about it too much. Maybe jumping on the bandwagon straight away for a 2.4 isn't the way to go (as new products will have even more teething troubles), but from everything I gather Saris' tech and customer support is second to none.
Mike
Mike
Saris support has done right by me. I had an older SL that developed moisture issues. I sent it back to them and they completely replaced the internals with the newer ones they started shipping somewhere around June of this year. The new internals have the electronics completely coated in some sort of rubberized plastic, and are supposed to be much more water resistant. It's the kind of thing you hate to say out loud, but I've been caught out in the rain a few times since then, and the data has been solid.MikeMuk said:
The rep I spoke with at Saris said that when they were testing the new design they took one of these things and removed the carbon windows, and submerged it in water for a quite a while. Apparently aside from a little creeping torque calibration (understandable with the humidity
), the little bugger kept on going.
Then I'm just unlucky I guess - I own 2 x PT SL hubs and both have died. One was only a week old when it went last year. Saris replaced it and that has worked fine since. My other one has died now, so it's on its way back to USA for repair.
I have confidence in their service support, just a shame to have the problems in the first place.
Even if I get free repair/replacement, it still adds up, shipping to the US from Australia, delacing and rebuilding wheel etc. Not to mention not having the wheel for however many weeks but at least I have a spare to use.
I think I prob got the earlier production SL hubs, which I sense were a little more prone to issues than the more recent production units.
I have mates with SRM and Polar, and they are not immune to problems either. Can't say on ergomo. I like the PT. None of them are perfect and this is the price we pay for fancy electronics embedded in something we hammer day in day out!
I have confidence in their service support, just a shame to have the problems in the first place.
Even if I get free repair/replacement, it still adds up, shipping to the US from Australia, delacing and rebuilding wheel etc. Not to mention not having the wheel for however many weeks but at least I have a spare to use.
I think I prob got the earlier production SL hubs, which I sense were a little more prone to issues than the more recent production units.
I have mates with SRM and Polar, and they are not immune to problems either. Can't say on ergomo. I like the PT. None of them are perfect and this is the price we pay for fancy electronics embedded in something we hammer day in day out!
RapDaddyo said:
there have undoubtedly been problems with the SL, but like the others say, Saris has excellent support and there are just many more PT's than SRM's out there.
also, i notice that the majority of posts about PT involve not knowing how to set up the cpu options: guys stuck in cyclo mode or hitting the wrong button to get to interval mode....
also, i notice that the majority of posts about PT involve not knowing how to set up the cpu options: guys stuck in cyclo mode or hitting the wrong button to get to interval mode....
Good point. How many do you think? Recent Pez item on SRM indicated 10,000 SRM units produced in total since they started. In use today - 3-4,000 maybe?jws said:
True but I always get questions anyway. A buddy of mine the other day has been using PT for years and only the other week he learned the interval function!jws said:
I think the PT SL is pretty reliable. Mine has about 4000 miles and no problems whatsoever. Pretty much every new technology has some growing pains and I think that's mostly what you see with PT. Apparently the first production run of PT SL's (late '04 or early '05) had some problems. However, several successive upgrades to the sensor (to get rid of vibration) and hub (to make even more water tight) have made them pretty bomb-proof now I think. I wouldn't be surprised if the wireless version has some growing pains too, but Saris supports them really well so it's probably not too big a deal.mises said:
good question....i don't know how many pt's there are out there, either; i should have prefaced my statement. powermeters, in general, are much more common now; i think once people saw pros using them more, they became believers. i see lots of pt's around these days.
i had the exact experience right on the starting line of a crit; the guy, who's a good cat 1 now, couldn't understand why intervals weren't showing up since he hit both buttons numerous times; i put it into interval mode for him and he was on interval 8.
You see a lot of folks "apologizing" for the unreliability of their PT SL. It's such a large outlay of cash that it's hard to get people to admit that there might be anything wrong with it. I have owned a PT SL for about 10 months. It is by far the flakiest consumer object I've ever purchased. It goes through little phases where it decides it doesn't want to work, or wants to chew through batteries, or is no longer interested in recieving HR data. There are various folk remedies for these problems, and those remedies are mostly effective to one degree or another, for a while, until the problems return.
That said, my powertap SL is the most precious piece of equipment I own, bar none. I realized this when it suddenly failed on me right before a race a couple months ago: I would rather ride somebody else's bike with a working power measuring device than ride my own without one. Other equipment might make me faster today, but only a power meter will make me faster a year from now.
So, yes, to answer your narrow question, they're pretty much flaky pieces of junk. Saris is nice to you about it when it breaks, because they'd be out of business in a week if they weren't. All the other power-measuring devices appear to be about equally unready for primetime, except for an SRM, which will cost you a downpayment on a condo. I still find the powertap to be extremely worth it, and consider it the best equipment purchase I've ever made.
That said, my powertap SL is the most precious piece of equipment I own, bar none. I realized this when it suddenly failed on me right before a race a couple months ago: I would rather ride somebody else's bike with a working power measuring device than ride my own without one. Other equipment might make me faster today, but only a power meter will make me faster a year from now.
So, yes, to answer your narrow question, they're pretty much flaky pieces of junk. Saris is nice to you about it when it breaks, because they'd be out of business in a week if they weren't. All the other power-measuring devices appear to be about equally unready for primetime, except for an SRM, which will cost you a downpayment on a condo. I still find the powertap to be extremely worth it, and consider it the best equipment purchase I've ever made.
Generally speaking, I've had a very good experience with mine. 9500 miles since November, plenty of rain rides, no major complaints.
In May, my bearings felt a bit gritty and since I had to re-lace the wheel anyway (bad rim) I sent it in for new bearings and was told 10-day turnaround. Then they decided to re-tool SL production and they held on to it for 4 or 5 weeks, which seriously ****** me off. But when I got it back, they did give me an extra mount and CPU, which was a nice guesture.
Bottom line - if you have the scratch, get yourself a SRM. If you don't have the $, get a PT SL. You'll be plenty happy with it.
(as an aside, I'm considering switching to SRM, but not b/c the PT SL is unreliable - I've turned into something of a wheel junkie and have a few rear wheels that have only been used once or twice. Plus the aesthetics of mismatched wheels bug me a bit.)
In May, my bearings felt a bit gritty and since I had to re-lace the wheel anyway (bad rim) I sent it in for new bearings and was told 10-day turnaround. Then they decided to re-tool SL production and they held on to it for 4 or 5 weeks, which seriously ****** me off. But when I got it back, they did give me an extra mount and CPU, which was a nice guesture.
Bottom line - if you have the scratch, get yourself a SRM. If you don't have the $, get a PT SL. You'll be plenty happy with it.
(as an aside, I'm considering switching to SRM, but not b/c the PT SL is unreliable - I've turned into something of a wheel junkie and have a few rear wheels that have only been used once or twice. Plus the aesthetics of mismatched wheels bug me a bit.)
peterpen said:
Potentially, it's not quite that simple [get an SRM if you can afford it] and i say this as someone who sells both SRM and Power Tap.
There are issues with the SRM, especially the Amateur model, in terms of accuracy and calibrating it. I know people who have SRMs who don't want to spend time calibrating the unit and purchasing known certified masses to hang off the pedals, and run through those calculations. They then end up with data that is incorrect and essentially useless.
If you're not into recalibrating equipment on a regular basis (especially the Amateur model, which also isn't very linear) then the PT is the way forward.
FWIW, apart from the initial run of PT SLs (with the vibrational issues) i've not had any big problem with them.
ric
Certified masses heavy enough to be used to calibrate an SRM are pretty expensive. It's much cheaper to buy a digital scale and weigh 10 lb weights purchased locally. You can also use the scale to weigh your food.
The process is simpler and quicker than a high school physics experiment and can be done once or twice a year. That's about as frequent as some people have had to send their PTs in for servicing.
The process is simpler and quicker than a high school physics experiment and can be done once or twice a year. That's about as frequent as some people have had to send their PTs in for servicing.
ric_stern/RST said:
Squint said:
sure, i agree that digital scale is the cheaper method, however, all the ones i have used aren't very accurate. We used to have an accurately calibrated balance beam in the lab, and when we compared digital scales that hadn't been calibrated, there was a wide difference of error.
with the *Pro* you might only want to calibrate it twice a year... However, if you do it every 6 mths -- and the slope has changed when you check it after 6 mths, how can you know *when* it changed. Was it month 4 it started drifting, month 2, or just last week?
ric
I bought a MyWeigh scale a few years ago. It was pretty cheap and reads to the nearest 2 g with a max capacity of 10 kg or so. I put a graduated cylinder on it one day and tared it and then added water to the 100 mL mark and it was 100 g.
I also put a 50 g calibration mass that I got free with another scale and it was spot on. SRM recommends weighing masses to +/- 50 g, I believe, which is well within the capabilities of affordable digital scales.
Slope drift on my SRM pro has been about 0.2 over a year. The amateur I had before that went from 20.2 to 20.4 over 7 years. Performing calibrations twice a year might not even detect such minor changes in slope.
This pales in comparison the myriad of problems that PTs have. In fact, it wouldn't even be an issue if PT apologists weren't grasping at straws.
I also put a 50 g calibration mass that I got free with another scale and it was spot on. SRM recommends weighing masses to +/- 50 g, I believe, which is well within the capabilities of affordable digital scales.
Slope drift on my SRM pro has been about 0.2 over a year. The amateur I had before that went from 20.2 to 20.4 over 7 years. Performing calibrations twice a year might not even detect such minor changes in slope.
This pales in comparison the myriad of problems that PTs have. In fact, it wouldn't even be an issue if PT apologists weren't grasping at straws.
ric_stern/RST said:
