How would your club handle this

Discussion in 'Mountain Bikes' started by Penny S., Apr 4, 2003.

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  1. Penny S.

    Penny S. Guest

    (this has been on my mind since last fall and the issue is about to resurface)

    I'm in a pretty loosely organized women's bike club. Membership gets you a monthly meeting during
    the season, a price break on a jersey, a email roster so you can send out ride announcements, a few
    standing rides.

    here's the deal.

    one rider ( her bf specifically) shows up with a dog. The dog is great as trail dogs go, knows how
    to stay out of the way and so on. The issues for me are a) they don't water the dog, even on 12 mile
    rides, and b) they bring it into the state park which is populated by a lot of different users and
    has a leash law.

    I'm really uncomfortable with this personally as I don't think that they are taking appropriate care
    of the dog.. no water in 12 miles and when I"ve addressed this in the past, they say oh he's fine.
    Also. I'm concerned with "dog-at-large" in a leash regulated area. Ultimately it's not my ticket...
    BUT .. as a "leader" of a (loosely organized) "club" ride...I have this idea that the club riders
    ought to try and be good bike citizens and I'm uncomfortable. FWIW, I keep my dogs leashed in same
    area... there are other places more appropriate to let them run.

    I had a private conversation with the club president, mainly to the tune of "can I say no dogs on
    my riders" and she was wishy washy about the whole thing. The club board seems to be wishy washy
    in general but that's another story.

    I"m welcome to input here. My own sneaky solution at the moment is to just leave that party off the
    emailing (oops) .

    Penny
     
    Tags:


  2. Mattb

    Mattb Guest

    "Penny S." <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > (this has been on my mind since last fall and the issue is about to resurface)
    >
    > I'm in a pretty loosely organized women's bike club. Membership gets you a monthly meeting during
    > the season, a price break on a jersey, a email
    roster
    > so you can send out ride announcements, a few standing rides.
    >
    > here's the deal.
    >
    > one rider ( her bf specifically) shows up with a dog. The dog is great as trail dogs go, knows how
    > to stay out of the way and so on. The issues for me are a) they don't water the dog, even on 12
    > mile rides, and b) they
    bring
    > it into the state park which is populated by a lot of different users and has a leash law.
    >
    > I'm really uncomfortable with this personally as I don't think that they
    are
    > taking appropriate care of the dog.. no water in 12 miles and when I"ve addressed this in the
    > past, they say oh he's fine. Also. I'm concerned with "dog-at-large" in a leash regulated area.
    > Ultimately it's not my ticket... BUT .. as a "leader" of a (loosely organized) "club" ride...I
    > have this idea that the club riders ought to try and be good bike citizens and I'm
    > uncomfortable. FWIW, I keep my dogs leashed in same area... there are other places more
    > appropriate to let them run.
    >
    > I had a private conversation with the club president, mainly to the tune of "can I say no dogs
    > on my riders" and she was wishy washy about the
    whole
    > thing. The club board seems to be wishy washy in general but that's
    another
    > story.
    >
    > I"m welcome to input here. My own sneaky solution at the moment is to just leave that party off
    > the emailing (oops) .
    >
    > Penny
    >

    I'd just say: "The rides I lead are no-dog rides, and plus there's a leash law here and the leash
    would be cumbersome. Sorry, but I'm sure you understand"

    What's the club going to do? Fire you from your volunteer position for upholding the rules on
    public lands?

    Matt
     
  3. L Hays

    L Hays Guest

    "Penny S." <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > (this has been on my mind since last fall and the issue is about to resurface)
    >
    > I'm in a pretty loosely organized women's bike club. Membership gets you a monthly meeting during
    > the season, a price break on a jersey, a email
    roster
    > so you can send out ride announcements, a few standing rides.
    >
    > here's the deal.
    >
    > one rider ( her bf specifically) shows up with a dog. The dog is great as trail dogs go, knows how
    > to stay out of the way and so on. The issues for me are a) they don't water the dog, even on 12
    > mile rides, and b) they
    bring
    > it into the state park which is populated by a lot of different users and has a leash law.
    >
    > I'm really uncomfortable with this personally as I don't think that they
    are
    > taking appropriate care of the dog.. no water in 12 miles and when I"ve addressed this in the
    > past, they say oh he's fine. Also. I'm concerned with "dog-at-large" in a leash regulated area.
    > Ultimately it's not my ticket... BUT .. as a "leader" of a (loosely organized) "club" ride...I
    > have this idea that the club riders ought to try and be good bike citizens and I'm
    > uncomfortable. FWIW, I keep my dogs leashed in same area... there are other places more
    > appropriate to let them run.
    >
    > I had a private conversation with the club president, mainly to the tune of "can I say no dogs
    > on my riders" and she was wishy washy about the
    whole
    > thing. The club board seems to be wishy washy in general but that's
    another
    > story.
    >
    > I"m welcome to input here. My own sneaky solution at the moment is to just leave that party off
    > the emailing (oops) .
    >
    > Penny
    >
    >
    One thing would be as Matt says; if it is on a ride that you lead, then you should be able to say no
    leash/water then no ride. Same as no helmet, no ride.

    Loosely organized or not, they are acting ambassadors of your loosely organized bike club, and if
    the dog runs after someone, gets hit by someone, attacks another dog, etc it will reflect negatively
    on said bike club. If you come across people who are looking for fodder against renegade, rebel
    rousing mt bikers, then they are giving them ammo.

    If you have a president, then you are a little more than loosely organized ;^) She should have
    enough cajones to lay down some ground rules. The above mentioned ideas is how my club treats it.

    How do they react when you offer the dog water from your hydration pack (or do you)?

    Lance
     
  4. Ken

    Ken Guest

    "Penny S." <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
    > I'm really uncomfortable with this personally as I don't think that they are taking appropriate
    > care of the dog.. no water in 12 miles and when I"ve addressed this in the past, they say oh he's
    > fine. Also. I'm concerned with "dog-at-large" in a leash regulated area.

    I think its the owner's business about whether or not the dog is healthy. Regarding flagrantly
    violating the leash law, however, that would definately be a liability issue for the club if
    something unfortunate were to happen.
     
  5. Kathleen

    Kathleen Guest

    Penny S. wrote:
    > (this has been on my mind since last fall and the issue is about to resurface)
    >
    > I'm in a pretty loosely organized women's bike club. Membership gets you a monthly meeting during
    > the season, a price break on a jersey, a email roster so you can send out ride announcements, a
    > few standing rides.
    >
    > here's the deal.
    >
    > one rider ( her bf specifically) shows up with a dog. The dog is great as trail dogs go, knows how
    > to stay out of the way and so on. The issues for me are a) they don't water the dog, even on 12
    > mile rides, and b) they bring it into the state park which is populated by a lot of different
    > users and has a leash law.
    >
    > I'm really uncomfortable with this personally as I don't think that they are taking appropriate
    > care of the dog.. no water in 12 miles and when I"ve addressed this in the past, they say oh
    > he's fine.

    He's not fine, and if they won't give the dog water, I would. Lay a major guilt trip on them. I
    can't believe that they'd be able stand by and watch their canine gulping somebody else's water (and
    he will, because he's GOT to be thirsty) and still be able to say he's "fine" doing without. Just
    because he can do 12 miles without a drink doesn't mean he ought to have to. You should see how much
    Zane drinks after just five or six runs at flyball.

    Also. I'm concerned
    > with "dog-at-large" in a leash regulated area. Ultimately it's not my ticket... BUT .. as a
    > "leader" of a (loosely organized) "club" ride...I have this idea that the club riders ought to try
    > and be good bike citizens and I'm uncomfortable. FWIW, I keep my dogs leashed in same area...
    > there are other places more appropriate to let them run.
    >
    > I had a private conversation with the club president, mainly to the tune of "can I say no dogs
    > on my riders" and she was wishy washy about the whole thing. The club board seems to be wishy
    > washy in general but that's another story.
    >
    > I"m welcome to input here. My own sneaky solution at the moment is to just leave that party off
    > the emailing (oops) .

    You've spoken to the club president, but have you addressed the issue directly with the
    dog's owner? If not, that's the next step. I thought you phrased your concerns very well,
    and it may be that he will be receptive to them. However, if he continues to bring the dog
    along, as long as the dog poses no threat to riders or pedestrians, I'd let it slide. If he
    gets busted, it's his ticket to pay; the dog won't be punished, and neither will your club.

    Kathleen
     
  6. Penny S.

    Penny S. Guest

    MattB wrote:
    > What's the club going to do? Fire you from your volunteer position for upholding the rules on
    > public lands?
    >
    > Matt

    thanks for putting it in perspective Matt ;-)

    sometime I get way too worked up about this stuff...

    penny
     
  7. Baxter

    Baxter Guest

    > snip <

    Hey Penny, A bit of a dissenting opion here but they are all worth weighing out. Heat stroke is
    often fatal on dogs and 12 miles is a lot for a pooch running the whole way. Water is REQUIRED for a
    dog that does that. If there are no complaints about the dog being along on the ride from other
    riders, I'd say that you discussed it with your vet at your last appt and they say it's critical
    that the dog has water and if they are going to continue to bring it, they need a water supply and
    portable bowl. Play up the health threat and say you don't want the rides marred with a possible
    health emergency when it's so easily solved. I used to ride w/my dog and when we had sections on
    roads, I would just attach her leash and put her in a heel position and she ran beside me perfectly.
    Don't know if that would work for them to solve the leash law problem.

    Happy trails,

    Greg
     
  8. Darsh

    Darsh Guest

    "Penny S." <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > (this has been on my mind since last fall and the issue is about to resurface)
    >
    > I'm in a pretty loosely organized women's bike club. Membership gets you a monthly meeting during
    > the season, a price break on a jersey, a email
    roster
    > so you can send out ride announcements, a few standing rides.
    >
    > here's the deal.
    >
    > one rider ( her bf specifically) shows up with a dog. The dog is great as trail dogs go, knows how
    > to stay out of the way and so on. The issues for me are a) they don't water the dog, even on 12
    > mile rides, and b) they
    bring
    > it into the state park which is populated by a lot of different users and has a leash law.

    The dog wants water. The dog might be finding water as he runs as well. It is certainly hard to
    watch the dog all the time to know any better. If it was me, I would get a collapsable water bowl. I
    would bring an extra water bottle or bladder in my CamelBak. I would "train" the owner to water the
    dog. I would water that dog at every oppourtunity I could... but I love dogs, and would love to do
    it... plus, I could not.. not do it.

    Laws are laws. You want to break them on your own, fine. Go kill your mother. One thing you can not
    do is break laws including others. Hell, people are suing McDonalds for getting fat, a nice infected
    bite in the ass could really screw your group up... to the point of losing friends.

    Step on a dogs tail hard enough, and it will bite you.... I don't care if its Lassie.

    > I'm really uncomfortable with this personally as I don't think that they
    are
    > taking appropriate care of the dog.. no water in 12 miles and when I"ve addressed this in the
    > past, they say oh he's fine. Also. I'm concerned with "dog-at-large" in a leash regulated area.
    > Ultimately it's not my ticket... BUT .. as a "leader" of a (loosely organized) "club" ride...I
    > have this idea that the club riders ought to try and be good bike citizens and I'm
    > uncomfortable. FWIW, I keep my dogs leashed in same area... there are other places more
    > appropriate to let them run.

    Remember, you are more aware than the average riding, or dog owning Joe. Don't feel too bad about
    it. When you ride, imagine it is 1971. I am sure you would have had no problem with it in 1971...
    hehe. Sometimes that is a healthy alternative.

    >
    > I had a private conversation with the club president, mainly to the tune of "can I say no dogs
    > on my riders" and she was wishy washy about the
    whole
    > thing. The club board seems to be wishy washy in general but that's
    another
    > story.

    She is wishy washy becasue of my above line. She is simply unaware of what you are privy to. She
    could be stuck in 1971.... hehe.

    >
    > I"m welcome to input here. My own sneaky solution at the moment is to just leave that party off
    > the emailing (oops) .

    There ya go.

    >
    > Penny
    >

    Links for the owner:

    This link is the Gatorade world for dogs

    http://k9power.com/workout.htm

    Dog Powered Sports. Just that.

    http://www.dogpoweredsports.com/index.cfm?action=cat.catalog&categoryID=36

    The best link for training a dog owne... opps, I mean a dog to run with a bike. It even shows a
    small Jack with a helmet on. A dehydrated dog will die of renal failure. Some dogs will run in fun,
    and die having fun just that fast.

    http://www.utahmountainbiking.com/goodies/traildog.htm

    Good luck,

    darsh
     
  9. Flyingcoyote

    Flyingcoyote Guest

    Penny S." <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...

    : one rider ( her bf specifically) shows up with a dog. The dog is great as trail dogs go, knows how
    : to stay out of the way and so on. The issues for me are a) they don't water the dog, even on 12
    : mile rides, and b) they
    bring
    : it into the state park which is populated by a lot of different users and has a leash law.
    :
    : I'm really uncomfortable with this personally as I don't think that they
    are
    : taking appropriate care of the dog.. no water in 12 miles and when I"ve addressed this in the
    : past, they say oh he's fine. Also. I'm concerned with "dog-at-large" in a leash regulated area.
    : Ultimately it's not my ticket... BUT .. as a "leader" of a (loosely organized) "club" ride...I
    : have this idea that the club riders ought to try and be good bike citizens and I'm
    : uncomfortable. FWIW, I keep my dogs leashed in same area... there are other places more
    : appropriate to let them run.
    :
    : Penny

    As a club, one should be following the rules at least as an example, in order to advocate open
    trails and responsible riding. A club is not an authority, just an organized group of like minded
    individuals with possibly some political power and local influence.

    It may be that not much can be said without looking in some way biased and possibly pissing people
    off but, as a ride leader you could easily either not invite them (as you mentioned... and I've done
    this many times myself) or specify that you will be in a park with leash laws so would like to leave
    the canine companions out of it since a leashed pet could be a potential hazard (leash getting
    caught in moving parts, etc). Mentioning the leash laws though, may cause an unwanted confrontation
    since it would probably be obvious to the offender(s) that you're specifically talking about them.
    Or if you wanted to be more up front with them, you could just point out the obvious and request of
    them to leave the dog at home.

    If it were me, I'd likely just not invite them again... assuming I don't know them well. If I did
    know them well, I'd just bring it up and ask that they leave their pooch behind next time.

    As far as water goes... well, I don't know much about doggy hydration.

    --

    FlyingCoyote http://www.boarsgut.com

    --
     
  10. x

    x Guest

    RE/
    >What's the club going to do? Fire you from your volunteer position for upholding the rules on
    >public lands?

    Somebody could always drop a dime on here just before a ride and let the long arm of the law take
    care of at least part of the problem.
    -----------------------
    PeteCresswell
     
  11. Stu

    Stu Guest

    whether they water there dog is up to them(is there no where on your rides that he could grab a
    couple of mouthfuls if he wanted it?) it depends on the dog, how hot the day is, how fast and far
    you ride l regularly run my rhodesain ridgeback (once or twice a week) 10 to13 miles and he will
    almost never drink(he takes like two licks and l think it is just to keep my happy). if there is
    water to jump in, he is in like a shot, but he will not drink(of course not nice clean water, icky
    brown smelly stuff is best). even when he gets home he is in no hurry for a drink so don't try and
    tell someone else what there dog needs. l have been told ridgbacks can go 24 hours without water(but
    have never tried it to find out) having said that l always carry water for him and almost every time
    give him the option of having a drink and he is always on lead, this has cost me a helmet, a pair of
    gloves and some skin. we have only crashed twice in 100s of miles once his fault once mine so l
    guess we are even tell them to put him on lead, where the law requires it. and lastly l hope you
    will be as strict on anyone else in the group breaking laws, like riding through "yellow" lights.
     
  12. Irm

    Irm Guest

    "Penny S." <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > (this has been on my mind since last fall and the issue is about to resurface)
    >
    > I'm in a pretty loosely organized women's bike club. Membership gets you a monthly meeting during
    > the season, a price break on a jersey, a email roster so you can send out ride announcements, a
    > few standing rides.
    >
    > here's the deal.
    >
    > one rider ( her bf specifically) shows up with a dog. The dog is great as trail dogs go, knows how
    > to stay out of the way and so on. The issues for me are a) they don't water the dog, even on 12
    > mile rides, and b) they bring it into the state park which is populated by a lot of different
    > users and has a leash law.
    >
    > I'm really uncomfortable with this personally as I don't think that they are taking appropriate
    > care of the dog.. no water in 12 miles and when I"ve addressed this in the past, they say oh he's
    > fine. Also. I'm concerned with "dog-at-large" in a leash regulated area. Ultimately it's not my
    > ticket... BUT .. as a "leader" of a (loosely organized) "club" ride...I have this idea that the
    > club riders ought to try and be good bike citizens and I'm uncomfortable. FWIW, I keep my dogs
    > leashed in same area... there are other places more appropriate to let them run.
    >
    > I had a private conversation with the club president, mainly to the tune of "can I say no dogs
    > on my riders" and she was wishy washy about the whole thing. The club board seems to be wishy
    > washy in general but that's another story.
    >
    > I"m welcome to input here. My own sneaky solution at the moment is to just leave that party off
    > the emailing (oops) .
    >
    > Penny

    Sounds like you have an issue with the boyfriend and you're using the dog as an excuse. I have 3
    dogs each of their needs are very different. I have a boxer that can't walk past his water bowl
    without drinking a third of it. A golden retriever, she can and has done 12 miles without a drink. A
    Jack Russell that will drink his fill or not, depending on his mood.

    I'm sorry to sound negative but this is petty. You stated a couple times the club is loosely
    organized... that's probably why they joined, to avoid dealing with strict guide lines. And people
    that are going to nit pick everything they do wrong. I don't agree with them allowing the dog to
    roam free… but I don't see how the club would be held accountable for that. Let the park rangers
    handle it. It's one of the things they are paid to do.

    Reading through your post I'd say you need to be in a much more organized club… one where the rules
    and regulations are very specific. That way you can keep the charter in your fanny pack and whip it
    out anytime there is an infraction. You don't sound like the type that should be leading a loosely
    organized group.

    As far as not sending them an email on purpose, I think that's such a bullshit way of dealing with
    YOUR problem. You bitch about them and their lack of responsibility, and your way of handling it is
    using deceit? There is a rotten egg in this club alright... but it isn't the boyfriend.
     
  13. Kathleen

    Kathleen Guest

    IRM wrote:
    > "Penny S." <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]>...
    >
    >>(this has been on my mind since last fall and the issue is about to resurface)
    >>
    >>I'm in a pretty loosely organized women's bike club. Membership gets you a monthly meeting during
    >>the season, a price break on a jersey, a email roster so you can send out ride announcements, a
    >>few standing rides.
    >>
    >>here's the deal.
    >>
    >>one rider ( her bf specifically) shows up with a dog. The dog is great as trail dogs go, knows how
    >>to stay out of the way and so on. The issues for me are a) they don't water the dog, even on 12
    >>mile rides, and b) they bring it into the state park which is populated by a lot of different
    >>users and has a leash law.
    >>
    >>I'm really uncomfortable with this personally as I don't think that they are taking appropriate
    >>care of the dog.. no water in 12 miles and when I"ve addressed this in the past, they say oh he's
    >>fine. Also. I'm concerned with "dog-at-large" in a leash regulated area. Ultimately it's not my
    >>ticket... BUT .. as a "leader" of a (loosely organized) "club" ride...I have this idea that the
    >>club riders ought to try and be good bike citizens and I'm uncomfortable. FWIW, I keep my dogs
    >>leashed in same area... there are other places more appropriate to let them run.
    >>
    >> I had a private conversation with the club president, mainly to the tune of "can I say no dogs
    >> on my riders" and she was wishy washy about the whole thing. The club board seems to be wishy
    >> washy in general but that's another story.
    >>
    >>I"m welcome to input here. My own sneaky solution at the moment is to just leave that party off
    >>the emailing (oops) .
    >>
    >>Penny
    >
    >
    > Sounds like you have an issue with the boyfriend and you're using the dog as an excuse.

    Uh... There wasn't anything in Penny's post that reads even remotely like that. She's a
    knowledgeable and concerned dog owner, and a responsible group leader. It's the boyfriend's behavior
    in respect to the dog she has the issue with, not the guy himself.

    I have 3 dogs each of their needs are very
    > different. I have a boxer that can't walk past his water bowl without drinking a third of it. A
    > golden retriever, she can and has done 12 miles without a drink. A Jack Russell that will drink
    > his fill or not, depending on his mood.<snip>

    And how much did your poor golden drink afterward? I can tell you that my two border collies
    *each* drink as much as I do when they're along on a ride. Being able to carry enough water
    for the three of us is a huge concern for me, and that has been the limiting factor on the
    distance of our rides in the summer. I spent some time trying to figure out some sort of
    pack arrangement so that they could carry part of their own water, but never did find
    anything that's suited to a running dog, rather than an animal strolling sedately next to a
    hiker. So for Christmas I asked for and received a Camelbak Hawg, with room for a second
    bladder. I'm not thrilled with the additional weight, but it's not like I can't use the
    exercise. You can't assume that a dog will let you know if s/he's overheating or getting
    dehydrated. Border collies in particular, but other gonzo dogs as well, will cheerfully run
    themselves literally to death. You have to serve as your dog's common sense. I have to make
    sure the dogs drink. That means not only stopping and offering the water, but also doing it
    in such a way that they can relax and drink without worrying that they're going to miss
    something, or that I'm going to take off on them. Usually this means literally holding the
    bowl in my hands while they drink. It's a pain in the ass, but when I've got the dogs along,
    the ride is about them, not me, just like when you bring along a beginner or a child. And by
    the way, the water is not only about hydration, it's about helping to keep their body
    temperature down. Guzzling cold, or even cool water helps, especially considering that dogs
    can only vent heat through their mouths and feet.

    Kathleen
     
  14. Doug Taylor

    Doug Taylor Guest

    "IRM" <[email protected]> wrote in message

    > I'm sorry to sound negative but this is petty. You stated a couple times the club is loosely
    > organized... that's probably why they joined, to avoid dealing with strict guide lines. And people
    > that are going to nit pick everything they do wrong. I don't agree with them allowing the dog to
    > roam free. but I don't see how the club would be held accountable for that. Let the park rangers
    > handle it. It's one of the things they are paid to do.
    >
    > Reading through your post I'd say you need to be in a much more organized club. one where the
    > rules and regulations are very specific. That way you can keep the charter in your fanny pack and
    > whip it out anytime there is an infraction. You don't sound like the type that should be leading a
    > loosely organized group.
    >
    > As far as not sending them an email on purpose, I think that's such a bullshit way of dealing with
    > YOUR problem. You bitch about them and their lack of responsibility, and your way of handling it
    > is using deceit? There is a rotten egg in this club alright... but it isn't the boyfriend.

    Wow. I think you're over-reacting to Penny's plight. Penny has a valid point, and I say this as a
    dog owner who also rides with a "loosely organized club." Every single member of a group - "loose"
    or "official" - owes it to all the others not to put the group of any sort of jeopardy. When any
    single rider breaks the rules of the venue where you ride -whether it be a leash law, helmet law,
    staying on trail rule, staying off closed trails, etc. - puts everybody in jeopardy. It's uncool to
    be so cool that you are above the law, even if "nobody cares." Well, somebody does, and if that
    somebody complains to "the authorities" about mtn. bikers... you know the story or should. Our club
    charges dues of $25/yr, which includes membership in IMBA. We take IMBA seriously.

    Back to the dog. I used to bring Missy (after "Giove") to club rides (to places where there was no
    leash law, only, of course) but quickly learned her presence didn't work in large groups. No matter
    how well trained she is - and she's a Belgian Sheepdog, very intelligent and extremely well trained
    - there's always a rider or two or three who doesn't feel safe with an animal running around on or
    near the trail. If you are a responsible dog owner, you are sensitive to the reactions of others and
    act accordingly. There is no "official" rule telling me not to bring the dog, but I'm not going to
    alienate myself from everybody else imposing her on them.

    Apparently the b.f. Penny alludes to isn't quite so receptive, and I'm sure that Penny has made
    non- confrontational but suggestive comments to him on rides: "What about the leash law?"; "Isn't
    he thirsty?"

    I agree that the best advice to Penny is Matt's:

    "The rides I lead are no-dog rides, and plus there's a leash law here and the leash would be
    cumbersome. Sorry, but I'm sure you understand"

    --dt
     
  15. Flyingcoyote

    Flyingcoyote Guest

  16. Tom Purvis

    Tom Purvis Guest

    Kathleen <[email protected]> wrote:
    > IRM wrote:
    > > I have 3 dogs each of their needs are very different. I have a boxer that can't walk past his
    > > water bowl without drinking a third of it. A golden retriever, she can and has done 12 miles
    > > without a drink. A Jack Russell that will drink his fill or not, depending on his mood.<snip>
    >
    > And how much did your poor golden drink afterward? ... You can't assume that a dog will let
    > you know if s/he's overheating or getting dehydrated...

    Exactly. The line between a dog that's doing fine and a dog that will have health problems because
    of how overheated and/or dehydrated he gets is a fine line indeed.

    So your Golden can go 12 miles without a drink. What if, at mile 11, you crash or discover somebody
    else has crashed and you need to spend an hour or more longer out there than you'd planned? Will
    your Golden be "fine" at the end of that hour? Maybe.

    This very thing happened to some friends of mine. Their dog Buck, who was one of the coolest dogs I
    have ever known, had seizures in the evening after they'd been on a ride where they had water for
    him, but an equipment break caused them to all be out there for much longer than planned. It was
    hot, and *everyone* was out of water.

    Buck went deaf after this episode, and was never the same. He was only abuot 8 years old, but his
    life was essentially over. I think they had him put down the following winter.

    > You have to serve as your dog's common sense. I have to make sure the dogs drink. That means
    > not only stopping and offering the water, but also doing it in such a way that they can relax
    > and drink without worrying that they're going to miss something, or that I'm going to take off
    > on them.

    Again, spot on. Your dog may not "want" to drink because everybody in the group is mounted up,
    looking ready to go. Or because the water that's being offered isn't in an acceptable form.

    In the early days of riding with my dog Rosie, I tried to let her drink from a water bottle dribble.
    She'd do that once, then would get an annoyed look and refuse later.

    >...Usually this means literally holding the bowl in my hands while they drink. It's a pain in the
    >ass, [...]

    Yes it is. A better way is to bring along a bowl. I used to always have an old sour cream or cottage
    cheese container with me. Rosie was happy to drink out of that. It's small, and I'd just stuff it
    into a fanny pack. We now have a canvas dog bowl that can be rolled up.

    Dribbling methods not only are less enjoyable for the dog than drinking naturally out of a bowl, but
    they are a MUCH less efficient way of getting water into the dog. Which means that you carry a bunch
    of water that ultimatly goes onto the ground rather than into the dog. I used to do 30 mile rides
    with Rosie on a regular basis, so we had to have this stuff worked out.

    Anybody who doesn't think a dog needs water on an hour or longer run is either a damned fool or
    doesn't care about their dog.

    And by the way, taking dogs on a ride with lots of other people, in a place where there are lots of
    other people, and where there's a leash law, is rude and irresponsible regardless of how well the
    dog is cared for. I've done lots and lots of miles with a dog. I have never taken a dog to a place
    where I expected to see more than 3 other people all day long, and never on a group ride. If those
    people want to ride with their dog, they should do it on their own. They are clearly idiots.
    --
    Tom Purvis - http://www.arkansasvalley.net/tpurvis/ Salida, CO
     
  17. Gazoo

    Gazoo Guest

    Simple solution ....... MYOB.

    --
    ______________________________________

    "It's never too late to have a happy childhood."
    ______________________________________
    "Penny S." <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > (this has been on my mind since last fall and the issue is about to resurface)
    >
    > I'm in a pretty loosely organized women's bike club. Membership gets you a monthly meeting during
    > the season, a price break on a jersey, a email
    roster
    > so you can send out ride announcements, a few standing rides.
    >
    > here's the deal.
    >
    > one rider ( her bf specifically) shows up with a dog. The dog is great as trail dogs go, knows how
    > to stay out of the way and so on. The issues for me are a) they don't water the dog, even on 12
    > mile rides, and b) they
    bring
    > it into the state park which is populated by a lot of different users and has a leash law.
    >
    > I'm really uncomfortable with this personally as I don't think that they
    are
    > taking appropriate care of the dog.. no water in 12 miles and when I"ve addressed this in the
    > past, they say oh he's fine. Also. I'm concerned with "dog-at-large" in a leash regulated area.
    > Ultimately it's not my ticket... BUT .. as a "leader" of a (loosely organized) "club" ride...I
    > have this idea that the club riders ought to try and be good bike citizens and I'm
    > uncomfortable. FWIW, I keep my dogs leashed in same area... there are other places more
    > appropriate to let them run.
    >
    > I had a private conversation with the club president, mainly to the tune of "can I say no dogs
    > on my riders" and she was wishy washy about the
    whole
    > thing. The club board seems to be wishy washy in general but that's
    another
    > story.
    >
    > I"m welcome to input here. My own sneaky solution at the moment is to just leave that party off
    > the emailing (oops) .
    >
    > Penny
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >

    ---
    Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
    Version: 6.0.467 / Virus Database: 266 - Release Date: 4/1/2003
     
  18. Gabrielle

    Gabrielle Guest

    > "IRM" <[email protected]> wrote in message

    >> There is a rotten egg in this club alright... but it isn't the boyfriend.

    Excuse you?

    On Sat, 05 Apr 2003 04:44:21 -0800, Doug Taylor wrote:

    > No matter how well trained she is - and she's a Belgian Sheepdog, very intelligent and extremely
    > well trained - there's always a rider or two or three who doesn't feel safe with an animal running
    > around on or near the trail.

    That would be me, knocked down one too many times as a kid.

    If
    > you are a responsible dog owner, you are sensitive to the reactions of others and act accordingly.
    Exactemundo.

    > I agree that the best advice to Penny is Matt's:
    >
    > "The rides I lead are no-dog rides, and plus there's a leash law here and the leash would be
    > cumbersome. Sorry, but I'm sure you understand"

    <aol>me too</>

    gabrielle
     
  19. "Penny S." <[email protected]> wrote
    >
    > here's the deal.

    I'm surprised there's any debate here. These people are behaving (in your opinion) irresponsibly,
    certainly illegally. It makes you uncomfortable. You're under no obligation to invite them on rides
    you lead, either personally or on behalf of the club. I would politely tell them that they are
    welcome on the rides, but the dog is not. If they feel like getting bent out of shape about it, then
    you probably don't want to ride with them anyway.

    CC
     
  20. Sorni

    Sorni Guest

    "gabrielle" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:p[email protected]...
    > > "IRM" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >
    > >> There is a rotten egg in this club alright... but it isn't the boyfriend.
    >
    > Excuse you?

    Jeez, I kept wondering why I wasn't seeing the posts from this idiot (IRM, that is, not YOU,
    Gabrielle :) -- turns out I plonked him/her/it some time ago.

    "Sorni does one thing right!" (Chant repeatedly until point made.)

    Bill "life's too fvcking short to waste on these dillheads" S.
     
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