HR vs Power with Threshold Training

Discussion in 'Power Training' started by kssz2, Aug 17, 2011.

  1. kssz2

    kssz2 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2010
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have a question about Threshold training with power

    I'm 48, have a MHR of 191 and a FTP of 215w (I think). If training Threshold L4 (198-230) against my HR sub threshold (155-164bpm) I cannot work the figures and the power seems to be all over the place

    I know my sub threshold value is correct because when I start moving out of sub-threshold into threshold of 165-169bpm everything changes, I tried this test out today

    (each interval I concentrated on bringing the HR up to sub threshold in about he same time then settling in at the top of my sub threshold to see the difference in power at the same HR

    10min - WU
    10min - Gear 61.9 (39x17) avg223w - avg112rpm - avg153bpm (topping 165bpm)
    10min - easy
    10min - Gear 95.4 (53x15) avg250w - avg78rpm - avg160bpm (topping 165bpm)
    10min easy
    10min - Gear 57.2 (53x25) avg198w - avg116rpm - avg163bpm (topping 165bpm)
    10min - easy
    10min - Gear 102.2 (53x14) avg235w - avg70rpm - avg163bpm (topping 165bpm)
    10min - WD

    If I train sub threshold of FTP 215w my HR takes forever to get up to sub threshold level. So when training in the threshold levels, what is best to do??

    Obviously the gear/rpm has a influence but when I read a power program saying 10/20min at L3 or L4 my HR will be all over the place depending on gear/rpm

    I just can't get my head around the threshold power level training, ignoring HR and vice versa - can someone the best approach regarding HR vs Power with Threshold training

    ta
    kssz2
     
    Tags:


  2. qcwtom

    qcwtom New Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2011
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    2
    By trying to use both power and heart rate at the same time, you're messing yourself up.

    If you're trying to spend 10 minutes in L3 to L4,, then that's what you do. You keep your wattage in that range (which as spiky as wattage is, it requires you to pay much closer attention that you woul with heart rate). Your heart rate will gradually climb and that's fine. Your target is the power, not the heart rate (which was really the case all along but there was no other way to describe the proper intensity).

    Cadence will depend on your program goals, If you're trying to improve strength, cadence will be lower. If you're trying to improve aerobic capacity, then cadence will be higher. It's rare to see cadence mixed up from interval to interval.

    Personally, for crits I tend to spin faster to keep up with changes in speed. For TTs, I'm a masher. Early in the season when I have a lot of crits, I spend more time at a higher (95 to 105 RPM) cadence. When I have more TTs, I spend more time at a lower (75 to 85 RPM) cadence.

    The fun thing about power is how much more instant it is. You say that when you move above 165 to 169, everything changes. I'd bet that it takes several seconds to a minute to get above that HR from a cold start. Power is not like that. If your threshold is 215 watts, then if you jumped on the bike and did 600 watts, you'd be hurting long before your heart rate reached 170.
     
    steve likes this.
  3. An old Guy

    An old Guy Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2011
    Messages:
    1,380
    Likes Received:
    21
    kssz2 ---

    The magic of training is that there is a wide range of numbers that bring about the results.

    If you can train monitoring power, your heart rate will be lower than the recommended training heart rate. If you train monitoring heart rate, your power will be higher than the recommended training power.

    Adjust the numbers you monitor so you get stronger.
     
  4. The_Gruber

    The_Gruber New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2010
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    If you have a powermeter then you can pack up your HR monitor. There is little point using both because they are different training "systems". Base your training on power alone as it is a better approach for most people. If you can't perform at the threshold wattage then you have probably estimated your FTP too high.

    Also note that cadence does impact the power you can produce for a given time period. For example I can achieve a higher power between 80-90rpm versus 95+ rpm. I can do about 20 minutes near FTP for the higher cadence before calling for the mercy rule - at the lower cadence I can go the full 60 minutes. Your numbers will be specific to you but it is easy to work out - just target the same wattage with different cadences and listen to what your body tells you.
     
  5. kssz2

    kssz2 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2010
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi guys

    thanks for the replies - have appreciated each one and will take on board what each of you have put forward - thanks.
     
Loading...
Loading...