HR went up after a long rest

Discussion in 'Cycling Training' started by eortiz, Mar 8, 2006.

  1. eortiz

    eortiz New Member

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    So I started riding again regularly. My max. (I can't catch my breath ) HR is 160 bpm. Although before, I can go up to 170bpm. Ok so now I've had a good 2 weeks rest and lost some weight (about 8 lbs). When I climbed a hill, same hill where I blow up at 160 bpm, I saw my HRM registering 165bpm. I pushed myslef some more and saw that 170 bpm is my max (I can't catch my breath) HR. Can anyone make sense of this? I've been told HR tend to be lower with a higher power output (faster on climb or flats) as you get fitter which makes sense. More work for less effort. But how can I explain my situation? Thanks for any inputs. "keep the rubber side down"
     
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  2. frenchyge

    frenchyge New Member

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    My explanation would be that you don't have any idea what your max HR is, but it's higher than you've ever seen it. The reason you're able to observe a higher HR since you've been riding more regularly is because you're in better shape and able to push your body harder before you feel like you have to quit.
     
  3. Spunout

    Spunout New Member

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    True. As you are well rested and relatively new to training, your HR will be higher. Even the well trained will witness high HRs for relative power output when coming back from a long rest.

    Also true, MaxHR isn't really worth anything. You are best to note your ventilatory threshold (160) or your best constant state (1 hour) HR and work from that.
     
  4. blackstud25

    blackstud25 New Member

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    As you get fitter you have to push yourself harder to get that heart rate up
     
  5. WarrenG

    WarrenG New Member

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    I dunno. Many people find that as they get fitter their HR responds quicker.

    After training consistently for a few weeks or so you'll increase your blood volume and your stroke volume will probably increase too. These will encourage slightly lower HR's for a certain effort.
     
  6. blackstud25

    blackstud25 New Member

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    Actually after training for several weeks, stroke volume does increase, as does blood volume, but the parameter of increased blood volume is an adaptation that is lost after several days without training. As for your statement about stroke volume and relevance to decreased HR for a given effort, i stated that in my previous post. As you get fitter the heart works as a more efficient pump thus maintaining cardiac output but delivering a higher stroke volume at fewer beats.



     
  7. tomdavis80

    tomdavis80 New Member

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    No, I would be more apt to disagree with "as they get fitter, their HR responds quicker." Take for instance if you are a sedentary, somewhat obese man and then you try running, your heartrate is going to shoot through the roof almost instantaneously, but when you're in shape, your heartrate doesn't need to respond so fast.
     
  8. tomdavis80

    tomdavis80 New Member

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    No, I would be more apt to disagree with "as they get fitter, their HR responds quicker." Take for instance if you are a sedentary, somewhat obese man and then you try running, your heartrate is going to shoot through the roof almost instantaneously, but when you're in shape, your heartrate doesn't need to respond so fast. Also when the obese man stops running, their heartrate is going to stay high for a good amount of time. But a fit person's heartrate would respond faster to the ceasing of a workload than an obese person's would. Take for instance Miguel Indurain's abilities, he climbed a mountain at maybe 180 bpm but when he started going downhill, his heartrate dropped to about 60 bpm.
     
  9. blackstud25

    blackstud25 New Member

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    I agree with tomdavis80, it is true that when you are fit you have to work your ass off just to get your heart rate to the max, while a fat obese individual will get there by moderate effort. I did not respond to the statement of warren g "as they get fitter, their HR responds quicker" because it did not make sense to me, so i just ignored it. i only respond to clear cut sentences that make sense. Warren g's statement can be interpreted in so many ways.



     
  10. blackstud25

    blackstud25 New Member

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    if you mean by your statement "as they get fitter their HR responds quicker" that an individual that is fit will get there heart rate up easily then you are dead wrong. Your heart rate goes up fast and will reach the high end of the max zone only if you are out of shape. A guy like me who is riding 600 km a week is not going to have my heart rate shooting through the roof unless the intensity is at LT, even then it gets up there gradually.



     
  11. frenchyge

    frenchyge New Member

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    Sounds to me that you're confusing a higher capacity to do work, with a fast HR response. The sedentary individual is working at a much greater percentage of his capacity than the fit individual, so it only makes sense that the fit person's final HR would be lower. That still doesn't address whose heart responded faster.

    Sounds like a fast response to me.
     
  12. WarrenG

    WarrenG New Member

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    MHR is not relevant in this context for an athlete. As athletes we are not concerned with the HR of an obese, sedentary person when discussing athletic performance.

    Assuming similar levels of fatigue and some environmental factors, look at your HRM when you begin an interval when you are partly fit compared to when you are near your peak. You will notice that your HR will go up to a certain level faster when you are really fit. Also, as you get more fit your HR will go down faster after those efforts.
     
  13. tomdavis80

    tomdavis80 New Member

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    About Miguel Indurain's heart responding quickly, yes, the more fit a person is, the quicker his heart will respond to the CESSATION of the workload. But like I said before, an unfit obese person's heart will NOT respond so quickly to the cessation of the workload but remain high much longer. And conversely, a fit person's heartrate will respond to increases in workload slower than a person who is obese and out-of-shape.
     
  14. frenchyge

    frenchyge New Member

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    Is this true for relative workloads proportional to their maximal aerobic capacities? Pointing to an obese person's sky-rocketing HR (compared to a fitter person's) when they run down the street is hardly useful, as they are quite possibly working at or beyond their maximal aerobic capacity.
     
  15. tomdavis80

    tomdavis80 New Member

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    Honestly, I wouldn't know, but still the rule of thumb that I laid down that the fitter you are, the slower your heartrate will rise in response to that workload will still be generally true at least from what I remember in my experience because early on when I first started cycling, my heartrate would rocket to the maximum whenever I was going all out in maybe 5 to 10 seconds but now, it takes longer for my heartrate to get to that same maximum when I'm going all out. And also when I first started, it would take forever for my heartrate to go down some after putting in a hard interval whereas now, it takes a little less time. The second part about fitness and time for the heartrate to return to normal after an effort is undoubtedly true. The first part, I don't know for sure if it's true in all cases but I would imagine that it is true in general.
     
  16. blackstud25

    blackstud25 New Member

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    Warren g you just dont get it so i will simplify it the best i can. MHR of an obese individual is relevant to the athlete to explain the difference between a trained heart and an untrained heart so it is relevant. Many times in the winter when it is too cold to cycle outside i train on a stationary bike. And many times i have trained next to sedentary individuals, and their heart rate would be higher then mine although i was doing more work. This is evident by the fact that on the new top of the line stationary bikes you can just look to you neighbor and based on calories burned you know who is doing more work not taking into account bodyweight, and it is always the case that iam doing more work. Now if i decide to hit it up on the bike and get my heart rate to the same level as my neighbor on the stationary bike i will be working even harder still, get it?. think of when you first started working out. In my case if have been cycling seriously for 3 years. When i started by heart rate would get to a certain level cycling at a certain resistance, maintaining rpm of 90-95, however as i got fitter while cycling on the same resistance and maintaining the same cadence the only variable that changed was my hr, it did not go as high as when i first started for a certain effort, hence as you get fitter you heart responds slower. However because you are fit you have the ability to workout harder and longer and get your HR very high, this this however happens gradually throught the workout, and depends on the intensity, which would have to be very high for an athlete to get hr to the max. while an obese individual can get there training at a lower intensity. So while the obese individuals hr responds quicker it is foolish to believe that he is fit. 5 minutes into my workout doesn't get my heart rate to 170 for example but after 30 minutes of intense cycling i can get up there. If your heart rate is hitting 170 after 5 minutes i would like to know how you are getting there. now your statement of "as you get more fit your HR will go down faster after those efforts" that i can agree with. furthermore more i have a question for you suppose your hr does go up to a certain level faster when you are really fit, what happens to an individuas hrl who works at the same intensity but is in worse condition will his heart rate go up to a certain level faster too, or will it go up to a certain level slower?






     
  17. blackstud25

    blackstud25 New Member

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    To answer the question whose heart responded faster. The fit individual's hr will respond slower for a given effort, comapred to an unfit individual working at the same level in which case his hr would respond quicker or to put it bluntly will shoot throught the roof because he is out of shape. If you want to test this get a person who is fit and an individual who is unfit. tell them to both get on a stationary bike and pedal at a similar cadence on the same intensity level for the same duration, and observe their heart rate during and after the workout. The fit individual will have attained a lower hr and that heart rate will recover faster to basal levels, while the unfit person will have a higher hr which will remain elevated for some time after the workout before finally getting down to basal levels.



     
  18. frenchyge

    frenchyge New Member

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    If you're testing them both at the same work output, then frankly you're missing the point.

    I'm on the same page with tomdavis80 that I don't know the real answer, and I'm getting the impression that others don't either. I'll keep lurking on this thread in case someone posts something usable here.
     
  19. WarrenG

    WarrenG New Member

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    No, it's not because obese people encompass many things that don't apply, and are irrelevant. They have many other problems with the efficiency of their energy systems, poor buffering mechanisms, and issues with their cardiovascular system that are also inferior.

    You can easily test your own heart in it's somewhat-trained state compared to it's well-trained state. January vs. July.

    See below. Stationary bike training does not elicit the same HR's you'll see outdoors, mainly because your upper body and some other suppporting muscles are not as involved when riding the stationary bike. Due to an injury I've been training on a stationary bike for the last 4 weeks. When I was doing certain intervals my HR was barely getting to 157-160. Days later I began to ride outdoors again and my hr was easily getting to 165+ for the same efforts.

    Oh no... Another expert from the gym. If you do not take into account bodyweight, fitness level, relative strength and cadence you have very little information about who is burning how many calories. This doesn't even include the fact that those trainers reward certain resistance levels with supposedly higher calories burned.


    Do you know that the HR for two people at a specific intensity could be as many as 20bpm difference, even if they're the same age?

    Do you know about warming up and what is happening during your warmup? Maybe because I'm much more fit than you I find it's no problem to hit 170bpm at will, even after only one effort of maybe 20 seconds. For less intense efforts it takes more time. As I get more fit my HR goes up to the interval's target about 20-30" faster than when I am less fit (that same season). The overall time will depend on the intensity of the effort, but for say, a 4 minute effort at threshold it will be about 70-90 seconds. A really good pro would normally see that happen in around 45-60 seconds. This information about pros' response time comes from my coach who has worked with several pro teams.

    HR's among individuals varies so widely that it's virtually pointless to compare your HR to another person's, especially with regard to effort or intensity.

    Remember, my comments were about a single person's HR responding faster when they are fit compared to when they are not.
     
  20. acoggan

    acoggan Member

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    An even better way of answering the question would be to test the same person before and after training, e.g.:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/..._uids=7364606&query_hl=12&itool=pubmed_docsum

    In any case, however, I agree with what you wrote.

    EDIT: I think that what may be confusing people is the fact that heart rate kinetics tend to be slower when acutely overreached, and faster when rested/tapered.
     
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