Hrmmph!!

Discussion in 'Recumbent bicycles' started by Colin, Apr 26, 2003.

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  1. Colin

    Colin Guest

    Decided to take the bike out for a spin today before the rain came, and *once again* (being a rural
    area) I met some horses, this time pulling a buggy. Now I am aware that all horses that I've met so
    far are a bit wary of my bike, it being a lowracer recumbent, but I'm getting a bit fed up having to
    stop, get off, and stand by my bike until the horses have gone by - Frustrating, and moreso today as
    I was told it was my fault the horses were a bit skittish "as I was so low" (so woebetide anyone out
    walking a daschund!), as if I'm responsible for the rider/driver's lack of control of their animal.
    This is getting so common now that I thought I'd check the highway code out for the next time it
    happens, as I'm sure it must say somewhere that all road users should be in control of whatever mode
    of transport they are using, or words to that effect: only common sense, surely. Imagine my
    annoyance to not find such wording (not yet, anyway), but did find rule 191 (titled "Horseriders")
    that states "...Look out for horse riders' signals and heed a request to slow down or stop. ..." So
    it seems (unless anyone knows different) that despite being a responsible cyclist, knowing I must be
    in control of my bike and knowing I'm culpable for the actions I make whilst on a public road, I can
    be stopped by anyone riding a horse simply because they cannot control their animal as I cycle by on
    the other side of the road :(

    As it happens, I always end up stopping anyway - I don't want to be even remotely "responsible" for
    causing a mishap, and not least because my head would be very close to hoof height of the horse <g>

    I guess, like so many other cyclists, I shall just have to get used to being treated unfairly whilst
    out cycling

    Colin

    ---
    cycling AT spiralpathways DOT co DOT uk
     
    Tags:


  2. I loved the way you wrote this...don't suppose you are free to write some of my College term essays?

    Last year I encountered a horse ridden by a Police Officer. I was on the designated Bike Way with
    fierce auto traffic to my left and this horse was "parked" in my path. The officer was carrying on a
    conversation with a Greyhound bus driver...also parked on the Bike Way. The height of the seated
    Officer and the seated bus driver were equal (not that this maters). I was down there looking up at
    the rump of this horse offering loud suggestions to the Police Officer...like move it and get a room
    etc. and was totally ignored. I could not pull out into traffic to get around the horse and bus and
    so I decided to introduce the horse to Mr.Falcon Air Horn and that horse could have easily qualified
    for the Kentucky Derby. It took off like a bat out of hell into the sunset and I got to ride home.
    Thankfully Mr.Air Horn did not give the horse a coronary, would probably have got charged with
    horse-icide.

    In your case, maybe a few sugar cubes might make the horses more at ease with your lowracer. Get
    them trained to look forward to meeting the guy with the Sugar Cubes and they'll ignore what you are
    riding to get the Sugar to them.

    Apart from the horse issue, where you ride sounds like a very nice country route.
    --------------------------------------------
    "Colin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Decided to take the bike out for a spin today before the rain came, and *once again* (being a
    > rural area) I met some horses, this time pulling a buggy. Now I am aware that all horses that I've
    > met so far are a bit wary
    of
    > my bike, it being a lowracer recumbent, but I'm getting a bit fed up
    having
    > to stop, get off, and stand by my bike until the horses have gone by - Frustrating, and moreso
    > today as I was told it was my fault the horses
    were
    > a bit skittish "as I was so low" (so woebetide anyone out walking a daschund!), as if I'm
    > responsible for the rider/driver's lack of control
    of
    > their animal. This is getting so common now that I thought I'd check the highway code out for the
    > next time it happens, as I'm sure it must say somewhere that all road users should be in control
    > of whatever mode of transport they are using, or words to that effect: only common sense, surely.
    > Imagine my annoyance to not find such wording (not yet, anyway), but did find rule 191 (titled
    > "Horseriders") that states "...Look out for horse riders' signals and heed a request to slow down
    > or stop. ..." So it seems (unless anyone knows different) that despite being a
    responsible
    > cyclist, knowing I must be in control of my bike and knowing I'm culpable for the actions I make
    > whilst on a public road, I can be stopped by anyone riding a horse simply because they cannot
    > control their animal as I cycle
    by
    > on the other side of the road :(
    >
    > As it happens, I always end up stopping anyway - I don't want to be even remotely "responsible"
    > for causing a mishap, and not least because my head would be very close to hoof height of the
    > horse <g>
    >
    > I guess, like so many other cyclists, I shall just have to get used to
    being
    > treated unfairly whilst out cycling
    >
    > Colin
    >
    > ---
    > cycling AT spiralpathways DOT co DOT uk
    >
    >
     
  3. Rorschandt

    Rorschandt Guest

    "Wile E.Coyote" <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:

    > In your case, maybe a few sugar cubes might make the horses more at ease with your lowracer. Get
    > them trained to look forward to meeting the guy with the Sugar Cubes and they'll ignore what you
    > are riding to get the Sugar to them.
    >

    For even more fun, get those kind of sugar cubes we used to buy from "Uncle Sid" back in the '60s...

    rorschandt "Relax, turn off your mind and float downstream. Is this not dying?"
     
  4. Tom Sherman

    Tom Sherman Guest

    Colin wrote:
    >
    > Decided to take the bike out for a spin today before the rain came, and *once again* (being a
    > rural area) I met some horses, this time pulling a buggy. Now I am aware that all horses that I've
    > met so far are a bit wary of my bike, it being a lowracer recumbent, but I'm getting a bit fed up
    > having to stop, get off, and stand by my bike until the horses have gone by - Frustrating, and
    > moreso today as I was told it was my fault the horses were a bit skittish "as I was so low" (so
    > woebetide anyone out walking a daschund!), as if I'm responsible for the rider/driver's lack of
    > control of their animal....

    If you are in Iowa... [1]

    [1] <http://nationalby-products.com/>

    Tom Sherman - Various HPV's Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)
     
  5. so like your desire to paint your new space frame trike Purple and have Xmas tree lights flashing on
    and off inside the space frame really has nothing to do with you knowing Uncle Sid in the 60s right?
    ------------------
    "rorschandt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > "Wile E.Coyote" <[email protected]> wrote in
    > news:[email protected]:
    >
    > > In your case, maybe a few sugar cubes might make the horses more at ease with your lowracer. Get
    > > them trained to look forward to meeting the guy with the Sugar Cubes and they'll ignore what you
    > > are riding to get the Sugar to them.
    > >
    >
    > For even more fun, get those kind of sugar cubes we used to buy from
    "Uncle
    > Sid" back in the '60s...
    >
    > rorschandt "Relax, turn off your mind and float downstream. Is this not dying?"
     
  6. Derek

    Derek Guest

    Colin,

    Horses have a weird visual frame of reference. I have seen them freak out over a sheet of plastic
    taped to the side of an arena. Recumbents invariably freak them out because they are new and
    different, therefore not to be trusted. Don't take it personally, just do what you can to help the
    rider out. I have found that talking to the rider calmly and cheerfully while the horse passes goes
    a long way to make a dicey situation better.

    How do you think motorists feel when you have to "take the lane" in traffic and it slows them down?
    The good ones will make allowances and not get angry or peeved. Do your best to be tolerant when the
    situation is reversed, and the world will be a better place to live in.

    Cheers, Derek

    "Colin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Decided to take the bike out for a spin today before the rain came, and *once again* (being a
    > rural area) I met some horses, this time pulling a buggy. Now I am aware that all horses that I've
    > met so far are a bit wary
    of
    > my bike, it being a lowracer recumbent, but I'm getting a bit fed up
    having
    > to stop, get off, and stand by my bike until the horses have gone by - Frustrating, and moreso
    > today as I was told it was my fault the horses
    were
    > a bit skittish "as I was so low" (so woebetide anyone out walking a daschund!), as if I'm
    > responsible for the rider/driver's lack of control
    of
    > their animal. This is getting so common now that I thought I'd check the highway code out for the
    > next time it happens, as I'm sure it must say somewhere that all road users should be in control
    > of whatever mode of transport they are using, or words to that effect: only common sense, surely.
    > Imagine my annoyance to not find such wording (not yet, anyway), but did find rule 191 (titled
    > "Horseriders") that states "...Look out for horse riders' signals and heed a request to slow down
    > or stop. ..." So it seems (unless anyone knows different) that despite being a
    responsible
    > cyclist, knowing I must be in control of my bike and knowing I'm culpable for the actions I make
    > whilst on a public road, I can be stopped by anyone riding a horse simply because they cannot
    > control their animal as I cycle
    by
    > on the other side of the road :(
    >
    > As it happens, I always end up stopping anyway - I don't want to be even remotely "responsible"
    > for causing a mishap, and not least because my head would be very close to hoof height of the
    > horse <g>
    >
    > I guess, like so many other cyclists, I shall just have to get used to
    being
    > treated unfairly whilst out cycling
    >
    > Colin
    >
    > ---
    > cycling AT spiralpathways DOT co DOT uk
    >
    >
     
  7. <Chas>

    <Chas> Guest

    "Colin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Decided to take the bike out for a spin today before the rain came, and *once again* (being a
    > rural area) I met some horses, this time pulling a buggy. Now I am aware that all horses that I've
    > met so far are a bit wary
    of
    > my bike, it being a lowracer recumbent, but I'm getting a bit fed up
    having
    > to stop, get off, and stand by my bike until the horses have gone by - Frustrating, and moreso
    > today as I was told it was my fault the horses
    were
    > a bit skittish "as I was so low" (so woebetide anyone out walking a daschund!), as if I'm
    > responsible for the rider/driver's lack of control
    of
    > their animal. This is getting so common now that I thought I'd check the highway code out for the
    > next time it happens, as I'm sure it must say somewhere that all road users should be in control
    > of whatever mode of transport they are using, or words to that effect: only common sense, surely.
    -snippage-

    Horses think of themselves as "prey" and their natural fright response is to run away (bolt). The
    relationship between a horse and it's rider, or driver in this case, is tenuous and based on mutual
    trust. It's not uncommon to have a horse "spook" at totally irrational objects (mine spooked once at
    a manhole cover in the street and threw me on the ground). Give the horse, and it's rider/driver a
    break _and_ a wide berth if necessary. They aren't dogs/people/cats etc. They're are a 1200+ lb,
    totally irrational animal capable of doing substantial damage.

    $0.02 worth from someone who rode horses for a long time before riding 'bents.

    <Chas> Haluzak Hybrid Race -- the inline wheelchair
     
  8. Seth Jayson

    Seth Jayson Guest

    There are shared horse/hiking paths in a forest preserve near me, (outside chicago) and very often,
    when I'm out for a trail run, I get grief from the amateur horse handlers that populate the trail.
    Their horses seem unable to cope with my running past, and they get even freakier when I'm leading
    my golden retriever. He doesn't even give the horses a second look, but the riders get all huffy.

    I'd like to say, "hey, my animal is behaving, how 'bout you train yours?" but on the otherhand, it's
    like tangling with a car. Better to be alive than right.
     
  9. Don

    Don Guest

    Colin, you are either very brave or foolish to ride a low racer in horse country. Why the heck do
    you think the big-wheel bone-shakers were the first bikes made (in commercial numbers for any
    historical accuracy freaks out there)? Because they were safe? Because they were fun and easy to
    ride? Because of the horses? Not. Not. And NOT QUITE. It was because of what the horses left behind.
    Riders wanted to get as far away as possible.

    It was only after automobiles replaced horses that it was safe to get closer to the ground. Really,
    Honest. I am not making this up. :) Don
     
  10. David Luecke

    David Luecke Guest

    I understand your point of view, and I'm not trying to say this is equivalent, but your frustration
    at having to share the road with horses sounds to me a lot like the frustration drivers feel at
    having to share the road with cyclists.

    --
    David Luecke Ridin' a RANS Vivo (wahoo!) Merritt Island, Florida USA
     
  11. Tom Sherman

    Tom Sherman Guest

    Seth Jayson wrote:
    >
    > There are shared horse/hiking paths in a forest preserve near me, (outside chicago) and very
    > often, when I'm out for a trail run, I get grief from the amateur horse handlers that populate
    > the trail. Their horses seem unable to cope with my running past, and they get even freakier when
    > I'm leading my golden retriever. He doesn't even give the horses a second look, but the riders
    > get all huffy.
    >
    > I'd like to say, "hey, my animal is behaving, how 'bout you train yours?" but on the otherhand,
    > it's like tangling with a car. Better to be alive than right.

    I suggest that escalation is in order. You should get at least a camel to ride on the mixed use
    trails. If you have the space to keep one, an Indian elephant would be the ultimate solution.

    Tom Sherman - Various HPV's Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)
     
  12. Colin

    Colin Guest

    <Chas> wrote: <snip>
    >Give the horse, and it's rider/driver a break _and_ a wide berth if necessary.

    I do just that - being a bit peeved is not an excuse for not doing the right thing

    > They aren't dogs/people/cats etc. They're are a 1200+ lb, totally irrational animal capable of
    > doing substantial damage.

    But this was my point - If you put a totally irrational (or drunk, or
    psychotic - in other words someone not in proper control) driver in control of a 1200+ lb car,
    capable of doing substantial damage, I can't think of anyone in this group who would argue that
    they should be out on the road with other users. Now before anyone has a go at me because they
    think I am saying horses shouldn't be on the road, I'm not: I'm simply saying that if the riders
    choose to take their horse on the road (which they are perfectly entitled to do, exactly the same
    as car drivers, cyclists and pedestrians), then they should be in control (exactly the same as car
    drivers, cyclists and pedestrians), for their own safety as well as that of others. Had I not
    subscribed to alt.rec.bycycles.recumbent for some months before I got my bike, I would not have
    been aware that they can spook horses. This would have meant that when I encountered the first
    horse out on the road, I would have been expecting nothing different to the countless other times
    I have passed horses on my upright bike without any problems. This could have led to a nasty
    incident for both me and the horse rider: the fact I was aware there might be an issue meant I
    took extra care.

    Colin

    --
    cycling AT spiralpathways DOT co DOT uk
     
  13. Colin

    Colin Guest

    derek wrote:

    > How do you think motorists feel when you have to "take the lane" in traffic and it slows them
    > down? The good ones will make allowances and not get angry or peeved.

    True enough, though how many would remain so if when seeing me approach from the other
    direction, they had to stop, get out of their car and wait for me to pass lest I fall off, lose
    control or run into them? Presumably they assume I am a competent rider and able to control my
    steed out on the road.

    >Do your best to be tolerant when the situation is reversed, and the world will be a better
    >place to live
    > in.

    Maybe it's just me, but I find tolerance is much easier when both parties make an effort, beyond
    saying "It's your fault, you shouldn't be so low down"

    Colin

    --
    cycling AT spiralpathways DOT co DOT uk
     
  14. Tony Raven

    Tony Raven Guest

    Colin <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > Now before anyone has a go at me because they think I am saying horses shouldn't be on the road,
    > I'm not: I'm simply saying that if the riders choose to take their horse on the road (which they
    > are perfectly entitled to do, exactly the same as car drivers, cyclists and pedestrians), then
    > they should be in control (exactly the same as car drivers, cyclists and pedestrians), for their
    > own safety as well as that of others.

    You forget that horses and pedestrians were using the roads long before bicycles and cars came
    along. Horses have always behaved like that and if we want to share the road with them with our
    modern vehicles then we have to accept them as they are and their prior historical right to be
    there. And no I'm not and never have been a horse rider.

    Tony

    --
    http://www.raven-family.com

    "All truth goes through three steps: First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed.
    Finally, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer
     
  15. Harv

    Harv Guest

    IIRC some historical anecdotes about early laws covering cars, one law required someone with a flag
    walk in front of a car to warn equestrian traffic of the approaching car. It seems the horsey set
    still has enough political clout that the horse takes precidence on the local trail system. "David
    Luecke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I understand your point of view, and I'm not trying to say this is equivalent, but your
    > frustration at having to share the road with horses sounds to me a lot like the frustration
    > drivers feel at having to share
    the
    > road with cyclists.
    >
    >
    > --
    > David Luecke Ridin' a RANS Vivo (wahoo!) Merritt Island, Florida USA
     
  16. Dave

    Dave Guest

    "Colin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Decided to take the bike out for a spin today before the rain came, and *once again* (being a
    > rural area) I met some horses, this time pulling a buggy. Now I am aware that all horses that I've
    > met so far are a bit wary
    of
    > my bike, it being a lowracer recumbent, but I'm getting a bit fed up
    having
    > to stop, get off, and stand by my bike until the horses have gone by -

    <snip>

    > As it happens, I always end up stopping anyway - I don't want to be even remotely "responsible"
    > for causing a mishap, and not least because my head would be very close to hoof height of the
    > horse <g>
    >
    > I guess, like so many other cyclists, I shall just have to get used to
    being
    > treated unfairly whilst out cycling
    >
    > Colin

    I always gave consideration to horses / their riders on the Queen's highways and byways in the UK,
    whether in my car, on my motorbike or pushbike... That was until recently when I rode e2e. 920 miles
    in 10 days. 3 near misses that had me seriously concerned for my wellbeing. I couldn't believe it.
    They were all horse transporters. I can only guess that it was because these monster trucks are
    being driven by mummy who is only used to driving the family 4x4 during the week and gets a little
    confused with vehicle width, driving Priscilla to the donkey show at the weekends !!....from now on
    they're all 'fair game', no further consideration!! and don't give me no b*ll*x about sinking to
    their level. I must have had hundreds if not thousands of vehicles pass me during that ride as it
    was all on A-roads, some of them approaching M-way standards (i.e. lots of v.fast traffic).
    Literally, no problem with any of it except these three lorries.... Cheers, Safe riding, Dave.

    p.s. - guess all the Americans are from the recumbent ng ?....
     
  17. Just Zis Guy

    Just Zis Guy Guest

    On Sat, 26 Apr 2003 20:32:35 +0100, "Colin" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Now I am aware that all horses that I've met so far are a bit wary of my bike, it being a lowracer
    >recumbent, but I'm getting a bit fed up having to stop, get off, and stand by my bike until the
    >horses have gone by -

    Rings a bell :)

    I find that talking to the riders helps. "Is the horse bothered by the bike?" seems to be well
    received, and I now routinely stop if the horse seems at all skittish. Nothing unfaiur about it,
    really - just as motorists are obliged to slow down and give us extra consideration (not that the
    selfish gits ever do) we are obliged to take account of the reactions of horses; they are none
    too bright.

    Guy
    ===
    ** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony. http://www.chapmancentral.com (BT ADSL and
    dynamic DNS permitting)
    NOTE: BT Openworld have now blocked port 25 (without notice), so old mail addresses may no longer
    work. Apologies.
     
  18. Seth Jayson

    Seth Jayson Guest

    > IIRC some historical anecdotes about early laws covering cars, one law required someone with a
    > flag walk in front of a car to warn equestrian traffic of the approaching car.

    Actually, there's pending legistlation in Illinois regarding horses and bikes on trails.

    In summary: Bicycle riding anywhere in vicinity of horse trail must do the following:

    1) Have someone walk in front with a yellow flag. Said flagger must not wave flag, though, as this
    might spook horse. Said flagger, moreover, must have voice of soothingness not less than that of
    an NPR newsman, ie Cory Flintoff.

    2) Flagger must carry one dozen doses of large animal valium (NAV) in a quick-dose system. These
    must be administered to any horse within sight of bicycle, either orally or through the horse's
    anus. If anal dosing is necessary, flagger must use an even more soothing voice.

    3) Upon dosing horse with Valium, flagger must cut one or two bushes worth of local foliage and tape
    it to approaching bicyclist, as to hide both man and machine from drugged horse.

    4) After horses and bicyclists have passed one another, flagger must apologize to horsemen for the
    inconvenience.

    I'm not sure who's sponsoring the bill, but he was wearing a cowboy hat and he had a decal in the
    back of his truck that depicted a Chevy truck urinating on a Ford truck.
     
  19. Harv

    Harv Guest

    You'll hear from Bruce the shrubber about this! "Seth Jayson" <[email protected]> wrote in
    message news:[email protected]...
    > > IIRC some historical anecdotes about early laws covering cars, one law required someone with a
    > > flag walk in front of a car to warn equestrian traffic of the approaching car.
    >
    > Actually, there's pending legistlation in Illinois regarding horses and bikes on trails.
    >
    > In summary: Bicycle riding anywhere in vicinity of horse trail must do the following:
    >
    > 1) Have someone walk in front with a yellow flag. Said flagger must not wave flag, though, as this
    > might spook horse. Said flagger, moreover, must have voice of soothingness not less than that
    > of an NPR newsman, ie Cory Flintoff.
    >
    > 2) Flagger must carry one dozen doses of large animal valium (NAV) in a quick-dose system. These
    > must be administered to any horse within sight of bicycle, either orally or through the horse's
    > anus. If anal dosing is necessary, flagger must use an even more soothing voice.
    >
    > 3) Upon dosing horse with Valium, flagger must cut one or two bushes worth of local foliage and
    > tape it to approaching bicyclist, as to hide both man and machine from drugged horse.
    >
    > 4) After horses and bicyclists have passed one another, flagger must apologize to horsemen for the
    > inconvenience.
    >
    > I'm not sure who's sponsoring the bill, but he was wearing a cowboy hat and he had a decal in the
    > back of his truck that depicted a Chevy truck urinating on a Ford truck.
     
  20. Dave Kahn

    Dave Kahn Guest

    "Colin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...

    > So it seems (unless anyone knows different) that despite being a responsible cyclist, knowing I
    > must be in control of my bike and knowing I'm culpable for the actions I make whilst on a public
    > road, I can be stopped by anyone riding a horse simply because they cannot control their animal as
    > I cycle by on the other side of the road :(

    "Control" is a relative term. A horse is not a machine; a bicycle is.

    --
    Dave...
     
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