hub rebuild question

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Dansmeyers, Apr 13, 2003.

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  1. Dansmeyers

    Dansmeyers Guest

    I just repacked both Ultegra hubs and wonder about a few things: the old grease (lithium) was a
    medium grey color...is this from water entering or just normal old grease look? I inspected the
    races and see a defined, but smooth, line where the bearings sit. Normal? Also, should all play be
    removed from the hub once they're back on the bike or can/should there be just a hint of play? I
    seem to have just a hint on the front hub after numerous attempts to get it just right. Appreciate
    your help.

    Dan
     
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  2. S. Anderson

    S. Anderson Guest

    "DanSMeyers" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I just repacked both Ultegra hubs and wonder about a few things: the old
    grease
    > (lithium) was a medium grey color...is this from water entering or just
    normal
    > old grease look? I inspected the races and see a defined, but smooth, line where the bearings sit.
    > Normal? Also, should all play be removed from the
    hub
    > once they're back on the bike or can/should there be just a hint of play?
    I
    > seem to have just a hint on the front hub after numerous attempts to get
    it
    > just right. Appreciate your help.
    >
    > Dan

    I'm not a big fan of white lithium grease for hubs or bottom brackets. I prefer to use a heavier
    grease like moly-slip. However, if you clean and re-grease enough, it's probably ok. I find it dries
    out and becomes displaced from the bearings after a time. The grey colour is probably normal as a
    result of wear and tear and dirt. The line you see is just normal wear and tear, depending how many
    miles you have on your hubs. As long as they aren't pitted, you'll be alright for now. Check the
    cones and bearings as well. There should be no pitting. If your bearings are a dull grey colour you
    may consider replacing them. They're the cheapest thing to replace (along with the cones) so if in
    doubt, put new ones in. If you have quick-release wheels, you can have a little play when adjusting
    on the bench as the QR will take up some of that play once installed. If you have your wheels
    installed on the bike and can STILL feel noticeable play, they are too loose and need to be
    tightened. There is a trick to adjusting hubs. Overtighten or loosen slightly, then use two cone
    wrenches once locked to loosen the adjustment a fraction or use a cone wrench and a regular wrench
    on the opposite lock nut to tighten a bit. Generally, you can get about a
    1/4 - 1/2 turn adjustment this way without losing your locked state.

    Cheers,

    Scott..
     
  3. On Sun, 13 Apr 2003 22:16:31 +0000, DanSMeyers wrote:

    > I just repacked both Ultegra hubs and wonder about a few things: the old grease (lithium) was a
    > medium grey color...is this from water entering or just normal old grease look?

    Normal.

    > I inspected the races and see a defined, but smooth, line where the bearings sit. Normal?

    Yes

    > Also, should all play be removed from the hub once they're back on the bike or can/should there be
    > just a hint of play? I seem to have just a hint on the front hub after numerous attempts to get it
    > just right.

    There should be no play once it is back on the bike. Sometimes this takes a while to get right. When
    off the bike, there will be a little play, since the QR squeezes the axle a bit. But if there is
    play with the QR closed tight then you will not properly distribute the load among several bearings.

    I would rather have a bit of noticable resistance than play. The effect of that slight drag will be
    nothing under load.

    --

    David L. Johnson

    __o | Deserves death! I daresay he does. Many that live deserve _`\(,_ | death. And some that die
    deserve life. Can you give it to (_)/ (_) | them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in
    judgement. -- J. R. R. Tolkein
     
  4. Dan-<< I just repacked both Ultegra hubs and wonder about a few things: the old grease (lithium) was
    a medium grey color...is this from water entering or just normal old grease look?

    Dirt?

    << I inspected the races and see a defined, but smooth, line where the bearings sit. Normal?

    yes-

    << Also, should all play be removed from the hub once they're back on the bike or can/should there
    be just a hint of play?

    Just a hint that should go away when you clamp down the QR-

    Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  5. Dansmeyers

    Dansmeyers Guest

    Thanks for your response.

    Dan
     
  6. Dansmeyers

    Dansmeyers Guest

    >I would rather have a bit of noticable resistance than play. The effect of that slight drag will be
    >nothing under load.

    except in my head the next time I'm climbing !

    Dan
     
  7. Dansmeyers

    Dansmeyers Guest

    Thanks for your answer. Is there any reason to be obsessive concerning bearing quality? I'm just
    wondering if there's any difference between what my LBS sold me and some other exotic source.

    Dan
     
  8. DanSMeyers wrote:

    >>I would rather have a bit of noticable resistance than play. The effect of that slight drag will
    >>be nothing under load.
    >
    >
    > except in my head the next time I'm climbing !
    >
    > Dan
    more than that. a tight bearing is putting stress on the cups/cones, even the best bearings are not
    'perfectly' round, as they tighten they will pit the surfaces. a slight loosness is better than
    tight, but not exsesive play.
     
  9. Jobst Brandt

    Jobst Brandt Guest

    James Connell writes:

    >>> I would rather have a bit of noticeable resistance than play. The effect of that slight drag
    >>> will be nothing under load.

    > More than that. A tight bearing is putting stress on the cups/cones, even the best bearings are
    > not 'perfectly' round, as they tighten they will pit the surfaces.

    Not rough enough to cause yield or the race surface would soon spall. This is mostly an aesthetic
    quality and for high speed bearings a noise and heat problem, but that isn't in bicycling.

    > A slight looseness is better than tight, but not excessive play.

    Not true. Bearing loads are higher with looseness because, with clearance, only one ball under
    the axle bears the entire load whereas, with appropriate preload, load is distributed among
    several balls.

    http://yarchive.net/bike/ball_bearings.html

    Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA
     
  10. [email protected] wrote:
    > James Connell writes:
    >
    >
    >>>>I would rather have a bit of noticeable resistance than play. The effect of that slight drag
    >>>>will be nothing under load.
    >
    >
    >>More than that. A tight bearing is putting stress on the cups/cones, even the best bearings are
    >>not 'perfectly' round, as they tighten they will pit the surfaces.
    >
    >
    > Not rough enough to cause yield or the race surface would soon spall. This is mostly an aesthetic
    > quality and for high speed bearings a noise and heat problem, but that isn't in bicycling.
    >
    >
    >>A slight looseness is better than tight, but not excessive play.
    >
    >
    > Not true. Bearing loads are higher with looseness because, with clearance, only one ball under
    > the axle bears the entire load whereas, with appropriate preload, load is distributed among
    > several balls.
    >
    > http://yarchive.net/bike/ball_bearings.html
    >
    > Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA

    jobst i'm not going to argue with you because most of the time your wrong - or just plain full of
    shit. now go piss off.
     
  11. Ted Bennett

    Ted Bennett Guest

    James Connell <[email protected]> wrote:

    > [email protected] wrote:
    > > James Connell writes:
    > >
    > >
    > >>>>I would rather have a bit of noticeable resistance than play. The effect of that slight drag
    > >>>>will be nothing under load.
    > >
    > >
    > >>More than that. A tight bearing is putting stress on the cups/cones, even the best bearings are
    > >>not 'perfectly' round, as they tighten they will pit the surfaces.
    > >
    > >
    > > Not rough enough to cause yield or the race surface would soon spall. This is mostly an
    > > aesthetic quality and for high speed bearings a noise and heat problem, but that isn't in
    > > bicycling.
    > >
    > >
    > >>A slight looseness is better than tight, but not excessive play.
    > >
    > >
    > > Not true. Bearing loads are higher with looseness because, with clearance, only one ball under
    > > the axle bears the entire load whereas, with appropriate preload, load is distributed among
    > > several balls.
    > >
    > > http://yarchive.net/bike/ball_bearings.html
    > >
    > > Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA
    >
    > jobst i'm not going to argue with you because most of the time your wrong - or just plain full of
    > shit. now go piss off.

    James, this is a technical group. If you think that Jobst is wrong in what he wrote about bearings,
    let us hear it, including your reasoning.

    --
    Ted Bennett Portland OR
     
  12. Doug Taylor

    Doug Taylor Guest

    James Connell <[email protected]> wrote:

    >jobst i'm not going to argue with you because most of the time your wrong - or just plain
    >full of shit.

    Peremptory? Yes. Haughty? Probably. Abstruse? Indeed. Wrong? Unlikely. Full of Shit? Prove it.

    --dt
     
  13. The grey is probably dirt or even worn metal. No lubricant is perfect, as the lines on your
    cones prove.

    BTW, those lines are normal, and nothing to be worried about, if they are even and smooth as you
    say. It's mostly the oxide coating worn off. If the line has pits, dump the cones and the balls and
    check the cups to be sure they aren't damaged as well. If it's uneven (extra wide in one spot), this
    could indicate a binding or unevenness in the cup.

    As for the play, you don't REALLY want to eliminate all play before you install the wheel, since
    your quick release, which clamps the wheel, will squeezes the cones together slightly when you
    tighten them. Check for play after you put the wheel back on and tighten the levers. Your wheel will
    betray any looseness better than wiggling the axle anyway.

    There also should be no hint of bind when you turn the axle before mounting the wheel, or the
    wheel after.

    May you have the wind at your back. And a really low gear for the hills! Chris

    Chris'Z Corner "The Website for the Common Bicyclist": http://www.geocities.com/czcorner
     
  14. [email protected] (DanSMeyers) wrote:

    "Thanks for your answer. Is there any reason to be obsessive concerning bearing quality? I'm just
    wondering if there's any difference between what my LBS sold me and some other exotic source.

    Dan " Not unless the "exotic source" made the parts. Otherwise, they are all the same. A shimano hub
    bought at Nassbar, for example, is no different than the same model purchased at your LBS.

    May you have the wind at your back. And a really low gear for the hills! Chris

    Chris'Z Corner "The Website for the Common Bicyclist": http://www.geocities.com/czcorner
     
  15. Tim McNamara

    Tim McNamara Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, James Connell <[email protected]> wrote:

    > jobst i'm not going to argue with you because most of the time your wrong - or just plain full of
    > shit. now go piss off.

    Now that's entertainment!
     
  16. On Mon, 14 Apr 2003 18:08:45 +0000, DanSMeyers wrote:

    > Thanks for your answer. Is there any reason to be obsessive concerning bearing quality? I'm just
    > wondering if there's any difference between what my LBS sold me and some other exotic source.

    Cost.

    --

    David L. Johnson

    __o | You will say Christ saith this and the apostles say this; but _`\(,_ | what canst thou say?
    -- George Fox. (_)/ (_) |
     
  17. On Mon, 14 Apr 2003 12:19:52 +0000, James Connell wrote:

    > jobst i'm not going to argue with you because most of the time your wrong - or just plain full of
    > shit. now go piss off.

    That's not real smart. This time he is right. Hell, most times he is right.

    --

    David L. Johnson

    __o | The lottery is a tax on those who fail to understand _`\(,_ | mathematics. (_)/ (_) |
     
  18. Dansmeyers

    Dansmeyers Guest

    >Not unless the "exotic source" made the parts. Otherwise, they are all the same. A shimano hub
    >bought at Nassbar, for example, is no different than the same model purchased at your LBS.

    I understand that part, tho if the exotic source made the parts would I have a mechanical advantage?

    Dan
     
  19. dans-<< Is there any reason to be obsessive concerning bearing quality? I'm just wondering if
    there's any difference between what my LBS sold me and some other exotic source.

    Any grade 25 bearing ball....

    Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
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