Hub width and stay widening



B

Boyle M. Owl

Guest
I've got a Schwinn ~1985 Voyageur (touring) frame that I'd like to build
up. It's nice Columbus tubing, just has chipped paint.

I'd like to use a Nexus 8 speed internal hub or Sram equivalent for the
drivetrain.

Looking at the information for the hubs, they are 130 or 135mm
(depending on model) between locknuts. The spacing between the dropouts
on the frame is 120mm

Should I try to bend the stays to the correct width or should I forget
about it?

--
BMO
 
F

Frank Knox

Guest
"Boyle M. Owl" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> I've got a Schwinn ~1985 Voyageur (touring) frame that I'd like to build
> up. It's nice Columbus tubing, just has chipped paint.
>
> I'd like to use a Nexus 8 speed internal hub or Sram equivalent for the
> drivetrain.
>
> Looking at the information for the hubs, they are 130 or 135mm
> (depending on model) between locknuts. The spacing between the dropouts
> on the frame is 120mm
>
> Should I try to bend the stays to the correct width or should I forget
> about it?
>
> --
> BMO

I've had a shop do this for me to two frames. I use both regularly with no
problems.
 
Boyle M. Owl wrote:
> I've got a Schwinn ~1985 Voyageur (touring) frame that I'd like to

build
> up. It's nice Columbus tubing, just has chipped paint.
>
> I'd like to use a Nexus 8 speed internal hub or Sram equivalent for

the
> drivetrain.
>
> Looking at the information for the hubs, they are 130 or 135mm
> (depending on model) between locknuts. The spacing between the

dropouts
> on the frame is 120mm
>
> Should I try to bend the stays to the correct width or should I

forget
> about it?
>
> --
> BMO


***************************************************

Since you have to ask this question, "Should I try to bend the stays to
the correct width or should I forget about it?", the answer is NO (and
I mean that with all due respect)

You should take it take someone who knows how to do it, such as a
decent bike shop.

Its not a big deal to do but it does need to be done right or you could
compromise your bike's handling.

Lewis.
...........
 
B

Bob Wheeler

Guest
Boyle M. Owl wrote:
> I've got a Schwinn ~1985 Voyageur (touring) frame that I'd like to build
> up. It's nice Columbus tubing, just has chipped paint.
>
> I'd like to use a Nexus 8 speed internal hub or Sram equivalent for the
> drivetrain.
>
> Looking at the information for the hubs, they are 130 or 135mm
> (depending on model) between locknuts. The spacing between the dropouts
> on the frame is 120mm
>
> Should I try to bend the stays to the correct width or should I forget
> about it?
>
> --
> BMO


I've done this with three frames. It's really a very small adjustment.
Park sells a tool for it, but using a piece of wood and a stool as
Sheldon Brown recommends is much better. You might like to figure out
the chainline before you begin since a slight asymmetry can be useful.

--
Bob Wheeler --- http://www.bobwheeler.com/
ECHIP, Inc. ---
Randomness comes in bunches.
 
S

Sheldon Brown

Guest
Boyle M. Owl wrote:

> I've got a Schwinn ~1985 Voyageur (touring) frame that I'd like to build
> up. It's nice Columbus tubing, just has chipped paint.
>
> I'd like to use a Nexus 8 speed internal hub


Good luck finding one. We've had 'em on order for over a year now...

> or Sram equivalent


Sram doesn't do an 8-speed.
>
> Looking at the information for the hubs, they are 130 or 135mm
> (depending on model) between locknuts. The spacing between the dropouts
> on the frame is 120mm
>
> Should I try to bend the stays to the correct width or should I forget
> about it?


Sure. This is a fairly trivial job. The hardest part is removing and
re-installing the parts from the frame.

See: http://sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing

Sheldon "Go For It" Brown
+----------------------------------------------+
| My mind is aglow with whirling, transient |
| nodes of thought careening through a cosmic |
| vapor of invention! --Mel Brooks |
+----------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
 
S

Sheldon Brown

Guest
Boyle M. Owl wrote:

> I've got a Schwinn ~1985 Voyageur (touring) frame that I'd like to build
> up. It's nice Columbus tubing, just has chipped paint.
>
> I'd like to use a Nexus 8 speed internal hub


Good luck finding one. We've had 'em on order for over a year now...

> or Sram equivalent


Sram doesn't do an 8-speed.
>
> Looking at the information for the hubs, they are 130 or 135mm
> (depending on model) between locknuts. The spacing between the dropouts
> on the frame is 120mm
>
> Should I try to bend the stays to the correct width or should I forget
> about it?


Sure. This is a fairly trivial job. The hardest part is removing and
re-installing the parts from the frame.

See: http://sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing

Sheldon "Go For It" Brown
+----------------------------------------------+
| My mind is aglow with whirling, transient |
| nodes of thought careening through a cosmic |
| vapor of invention! --Mel Brooks |
+----------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
 
Z

Zog The Undeniable

Guest
Boyle M. Owl wrote:

> I've got a Schwinn ~1985 Voyageur (touring) frame that I'd like to build
> up. It's nice Columbus tubing, just has chipped paint.
>
> I'd like to use a Nexus 8 speed internal hub or Sram equivalent for the
> drivetrain.
>
> Looking at the information for the hubs, they are 130 or 135mm
> (depending on model) between locknuts. The spacing between the dropouts
> on the frame is 120mm
>
> Should I try to bend the stays to the correct width or should I forget
> about it?


I would get a *good* bike shop or framebuilder to do it. 120mm to
135mm, especially, is quite a lot. The dropouts will be out of parallel
when you've finished and will need realigning themselves.

I've done 126mm to 130mm myself, but that is a tiny adjustment and the
dropout problem is minimal. I still had the frame professionally
checked when it went in for its last respray.
 
J

Jim Smith

Guest
Sheldon Brown <[email protected]> writes:

> Boyle M. Owl wrote:
>
>> I've got a Schwinn ~1985 Voyageur (touring) frame that I'd like to
>> build up. It's nice Columbus tubing, just has chipped paint.
>> I'd like to use a Nexus 8 speed internal hub

>
> Good luck finding one. We've had 'em on order for over a year now...


Is this because they are all going to OEMs, or are they not in
production at all?
 
S

Sheldon Brown

Guest
Quoth Boyle M. Owl::
>>
>>>I've got a Schwinn ~1985 Voyageur (touring) frame that I'd like to
>>>build up. It's nice Columbus tubing, just has chipped paint.
>>>I'd like to use a Nexus 8 speed internal hub


I replied in part:

>>Good luck finding one. We've had 'em on order for over a year now...

>

Jim Smith queried:
>
> Is this because they are all going to OEMs, or are they not in
> production at all?


The former. We have at least three different bike models in stock that
feature this hub, from Bianchi, Breezer and Koga/Miyata

http://harriscyclery.com/

Sheldon "Wait For 8" Brown
+-----------------------------------------------------+
| Once more upon the waters! yet once more! |
| And the waves bound beneath me as a steed |
| That knows his rider. Welcome to their roar! |
| Swift be their guidance, wheresoe'er it lead! |
| Though the strain'd mast should quiver as a reed, |
| And the rent canvas fluttering strew the gale, |
| Still must I on; for I am as a weed, |
| Flung from the rock, on Ocean's foam to sail |
| Where'er the surge may sweep, |
| the tempest's breath prevail. |
| --Lord Byron Child Harold's Pilgrimage |
+-----------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
 
D

dianne_1234

Guest
On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 05:51:21 -0500, "Boyle M. Owl"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>I've got a Schwinn ~1985 Voyageur (touring) frame that I'd like to build
>up. It's nice Columbus tubing, just has chipped paint.
>
>I'd like to use a Nexus 8 speed internal hub or Sram equivalent for the
>drivetrain.
>
>Looking at the information for the hubs, they are 130 or 135mm
>(depending on model) between locknuts. The spacing between the dropouts
>on the frame is 120mm
>
>Should I try to bend the stays to the correct width or should I forget
>about it?


I had a frame builder do this to my Voyager many years ago. I ended up
with 135mm spacing; don't remember what it used to be. The bike worked
great until I gave it away last summer.
 
A

Aman

Guest
Hi,

I had an old fillet brazed trek 560 that I think was
originally set to be a 6 or 7 speed at what if my memory
serves me correct is 126mm spacing, 126 probably because
it's transferred from English measurements??
Anyways, I was able to put a 130mm spaced 8 speed rear
hub in it with no bending or anything: I just fit it in.
It was a bit tricky to get it in because I did have to
spread the stays a bit as I put it in, but it worked.
I think it would be best to sort of 'professionally' set
the stays to the right width as far as fixing a flat and
metal fatigue goes. I say fixing a flat, because it was
kind of har to spread the stays and get the wheel in at
the same time.

-Aman

[P.S. Did anyone read any innuendo in to this advice?]



On Mon, 10 Jan 2005, dianne_1234 wrote:

> On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 05:51:21 -0500, "Boyle M. Owl"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >I've got a Schwinn ~1985 Voyageur (touring) frame that I'd like to build
> >up. It's nice Columbus tubing, just has chipped paint.
> >
> >I'd like to use a Nexus 8 speed internal hub or Sram equivalent for the
> >drivetrain.
> >
> >Looking at the information for the hubs, they are 130 or 135mm
> >(depending on model) between locknuts. The spacing between the dropouts
> >on the frame is 120mm
> >
> >Should I try to bend the stays to the correct width or should I forget
> >about it?

>
> I had a frame builder do this to my Voyager many years ago. I ended up
> with 135mm spacing; don't remember what it used to be. The bike worked
> great until I gave it away last summer.
>
>
 
B

Boyle M. Owl

Guest
Sheldon Brown wrote:
> Boyle M. Owl wrote:
>
>> I've got a Schwinn ~1985 Voyageur (touring) frame that I'd like to
>> build up. It's nice Columbus tubing, just has chipped paint.
>>
>> I'd like to use a Nexus 8 speed internal hub

>
>
> Good luck finding one. We've had 'em on order for over a year now...
>


Oh boy. And I was thinking of buying it from your shop during to a
visit to my brother in Watertown. As a matter of fact, your web page
gave me the idea to do this.

I might take the frame to Circle A (a frame builder in Providence) to
get it done if I'm too frightened. I've got plenty of tools to do this,
though, as I've got a full machine shop at my disposal (I'm a machinist
and toolmaker).

>> or Sram equivalent

>
>
> Sram doesn't do an 8-speed.


Well, 7 speed, then. :p I wish I had the scratch for a Rohloff.

>> Should I try to bend the stays to the correct width or should I forget
>> about it?

>
>
> Sure. This is a fairly trivial job. The hardest part is removing and
> re-installing the parts from the frame.


The frame is quite bare. All it has is the bottom bracket (which is
going to be reworked or replaced...I haven't decided yet. It's a hollow
spindle, though, which is kinda cool) and the headset. I'm also going
to see one of my fellow employees to see if I can get it powder coated.

Here's the total idea for the bike...a city/commuter bike based on a
good touring frame.

To the group and Sheldon in particular: Thanks for the answers to a
newbie-ish question.

--
BMO
 
B

Boyle M. Owl

Guest
Sheldon Brown wrote:

> See: http://sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing
>


I replied earlier without actually visiting the URL, yammering something
about having a machine shop...

It looks....simple.

As for the dropout alignment gage, I think I can make do with some
threaded rod and some nuts with accurately flat ground sides.

> Sheldon "Go For It" Brown


Indeed.

--
BMO
 
Boyle M. Owl wrote:
> It looks....simple.
>
> As for the dropout alignment gage, I think I can make do with some
> threaded rod and some nuts with accurately flat ground sides.


Actually, I spread and aligned a frame or two in my bedroom using
nothing more than a ruler (for measurements), a string (for verifying
frame symmetry), and a crescent wrench (to tweak the dropouts). It *is*
simple- better tools make the process faster and easier, that's all.
Have at it.

Jeff
 
M

Mark Janeba

Guest
Boyle M. Owl wrote:

> As for the dropout alignment gage, I think I can make do with some
> threaded rod and some nuts with accurately flat ground sides.


Did you mean ground *ends*? Maybe we mean the same thing:

Screw several nuts onto each of two pieces of rod, two nuts to lock the
rod into the dropout, and two to lock against each other at the end, to
give a flat "end" to the assembly. Then bend dropouts until the flat
"ends" are parallel.

This assembly worked for me on a fork, but I could tell at the time that
the proper tools would make it much easier. I was too cheap to buy them
given I didn't expect to be doing this job more than once.

Good luck,

Mark Janeba
 
B

Boyle M. Owl

Guest
Mark Janeba wrote:
> Boyle M. Owl wrote:
>
>> As for the dropout alignment gage, I think I can make do with some
>> threaded rod and some nuts with accurately flat ground sides.

>
>
> Did you mean ground *ends*? Maybe we mean the same thing:


We do.

> Screw several nuts onto each of two pieces of rod, two nuts to lock the
> rod into the dropout, and two to lock against each other at the end, to
> give a flat "end" to the assembly. Then bend dropouts until the flat
> "ends" are parallel.


That's what I was thinking.

:-D

> This assembly worked for me on a fork, but I could tell at the time that
> the proper tools would make it much easier.


They would, but for what it is, and for the one-time use I need, the
Park tool is not cheap.

BTW, I just biked home in a couple of inches of fresh snow. It
was...magical. It's so much nicer at night when most car drivers are at
home. Oh, and Nokian studded tires rule. This is the second season on
these.

--
BMO