Hutchinson tubelss on cyclingnews

[Phil, Non-Squid]

Bill Sornson wrote:
> Phil, Non-Squid wrote:
>> Bill Sornson wrote:
>>> I always await tubless mentions, and viola!
>>>
>>> Bill "sic, sic" S.
>>
>> I prefer the violin myself.
>
> Does it make "whoosh" sounds, Skwidster? <eg>

Sorry, slow morning over here today, hehe.

--
Phil

 

[jim beam]

Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
> jim beam wrote:
>> Ozark Bicycle wrote:
>>> jim beam wrote:
>>>> Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
>>>>> Geezzz, another 24 inches of snow yesterday, and over 100 responses to
>>>>> my 'OMG, another $1000 wheelset that does what?' thread....BUT
>>>>>
>>>>> The test sings the praises of these, so I, once more, remind myself
>>>>> that I really love to wrench, ya know, work on bicycles, build wheels
>>>>> but I really don't like to 'sell'. Ya know, look somebody right in the
>>>>> eye and either 'make a promise' about some gadget or another, or tell
>>>>> him why the person down the streeet shouldn't have.
>>>>>
>>>>> I really liked the gig of JB, when he was at Excel, after leaving 'High
>>>>> Wheeler'..he sat behind the 'titanium curtain' and just did the
>>>>> wrenching, the building. Didn't have to 'take a stand' on anything,
>>>>> sell anything..great job.
>>>>>
>>>> but you've been in a position where you've had to trust the engineers
>>>> that built your planes didn't you? [presumably you didn't design and
>>>> build yourself.] what's changed?
>>> I don't think the marketing-types had much input into the final form of
>>> the F-16. I think that is what Peter objects to: the undue influence of
>>> marketeers in today's cycling products and the reams of specious BS
>>> that are a byproduct of that.
>>>
>> you have a good point [although you might be surprised about the sales
>> efforts behind /any/ plane]. but how much experience and knowhow does
>> it take to filter that? marketing is a fact of life. deal with it.
>> ask questions. the only kicker is when the sales droids outright lie,
>> but even then, if you know what you're about, you can filter that too.
>> the sales droid for my car was a lying asshole, but the car's great!
>
> My point. After 2 decades of it, I'm tired of it. Tired of 'justifying'
> my position when the 'droid' down the street tells somebody how amazing
> that piece of carbon on the rear of that aluminum frame is.
>
you need a good long sabbatical! come back refreshed.

you're not in competition with the droids peter - the service you offer
is 180 to them. that's your strength - play to it.

 

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

>> If you want to know more about military plane marketing than you ever
>> need
>> to know, and see some cool ads from companies *marketing* various types
>> of
>> countermeasures, check out this link-
>> http://www.armada.ch/03-3/complete_03-3.pdf. It's interesting stuff.
>> Reading
>> the ads you might think it's BUYCycling for the military.
>
> But most of that stuff works.

I'd hate to be around when it doesn't...

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>> > I don't think the marketing-types had much input into the final form of
>> > the F-16. I think that is what Peter objects to: the undue influence of
>> > marketeers in today's cycling products and the reams of specious BS
>> > that are a byproduct of that.
>>
>> There is probably far more marketing $$$ and muscle put into any one
>> company's attempt to sell a plane than all the cycling companies combined
>> since the turn of the century. And not just military aircraft either
>> (witness the competition for the domestic Supersonic passenger aircraft
>> that
>> was eventually scuttled). And if you think it doesn't influence design,
>> look
>> at the F111 fiasco. Trying to make that plane be all-things to all-people
>> (a
>> marketing person's dream) created a train wreck.
>
> Thank McNamara and his 'whizkids' for that. In the same era the F-4
> came to pass and that was a wonderful A/C. It wasn't designed like that
> to sell to every country that may have been a customer but a 'do-all'
> A/C for all the services, like the F-35 is going to be. Like the F-4
> was. Just poor design, technology wasn't 'there' yet.
>>
>> If you want to know more about military plane marketing than you ever
>> need
>> to know, and see some cool ads from companies *marketing* various types
>> of
>> countermeasures, check out this link-
>> http://www.armada.ch/03-3/complete_03-3.pdf. It's interesting stuff.
>> Reading
>> the ads you might think it's BUYCycling for the military.
>
> But most of that stuff works.
>>
>> --Mike Jacoubowsky
>> Chain Reaction Bicycles
>> www.ChainReaction.com
>> Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
>>
>>
>>
>> "Ozark Bicycle" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> >
>> > jim beam wrote:
>> >> Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
>> >> > Geezzz, another 24 inches of snow yesterday, and over 100 responses
>> >> > to
>> >> > my 'OMG, another $1000 wheelset that does what?' thread....BUT
>> >> >
>> >> > The test sings the praises of these, so I, once more, remind myself
>> >> > that I really love to wrench, ya know, work on bicycles, build
>> >> > wheels
>> >> > but I really don't like to 'sell'. Ya know, look somebody right in
>> >> > the
>> >> > eye and either 'make a promise' about some gadget or another, or
>> >> > tell
>> >> > him why the person down the streeet shouldn't have.
>> >> >
>> >> > I really liked the gig of JB, when he was at Excel, after leaving
>> >> > 'High
>> >> > Wheeler'..he sat behind the 'titanium curtain' and just did the
>> >> > wrenching, the building. Didn't have to 'take a stand' on anything,
>> >> > sell anything..great job.
>> >> >
>> >> but you've been in a position where you've had to trust the engineers
>> >> that built your planes didn't you? [presumably you didn't design and
>> >> build yourself.] what's changed?
>> >
>> > I don't think the marketing-types had much input into the final form of
>> > the F-16. I think that is what Peter objects to: the undue influence of
>> > marketeers in today's cycling products and the reams of specious BS
>> > that are a byproduct of that.
>> >
>

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

jim beam wrote:
> Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
> > jim beam wrote:
> >> Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> >>> jim beam wrote:
> >>>> Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
> >>>>> Geezzz, another 24 inches of snow yesterday, and over 100 responses to
> >>>>> my 'OMG, another $1000 wheelset that does what?' thread....BUT
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The test sings the praises of these, so I, once more, remind myself
> >>>>> that I really love to wrench, ya know, work on bicycles, build wheels
> >>>>> but I really don't like to 'sell'. Ya know, look somebody right in the
> >>>>> eye and either 'make a promise' about some gadget or another, or tell
> >>>>> him why the person down the streeet shouldn't have.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I really liked the gig of JB, when he was at Excel, after leaving 'High
> >>>>> Wheeler'..he sat behind the 'titanium curtain' and just did the
> >>>>> wrenching, the building. Didn't have to 'take a stand' on anything,
> >>>>> sell anything..great job.
> >>>>>
> >>>> but you've been in a position where you've had to trust the engineers
> >>>> that built your planes didn't you? [presumably you didn't design and
> >>>> build yourself.] what's changed?
> >>> I don't think the marketing-types had much input into the final form of
> >>> the F-16. I think that is what Peter objects to: the undue influence of
> >>> marketeers in today's cycling products and the reams of specious BS
> >>> that are a byproduct of that.
> >>>
> >> you have a good point [although you might be surprised about the sales
> >> efforts behind /any/ plane]. but how much experience and knowhow does
> >> it take to filter that? marketing is a fact of life. deal with it.
> >> ask questions. the only kicker is when the sales droids outright lie,
> >> but even then, if you know what you're about, you can filter that too.
> >> the sales droid for my car was a lying asshole, but the car's great!
> >
> > My point. After 2 decades of it, I'm tired of it. Tired of 'justifying'
> > my position when the 'droid' down the street tells somebody how amazing
> > that piece of carbon on the rear of that aluminum frame is.
> >
> you need a good long sabbatical! come back refreshed.
>
> you're not in competition with the droids peter - the service you offer
> is 180 to them. that's your strength - play to it.

I know, why I like JBs gig...I love to wrench, how this thread started,
we do great just tired of 'but I can get 7 spoke wonderwheel on the
internet and the guy 1/2 a block away said it meant I could get to Ward
and get laid on the same day...and did I mention my roses will bloom?',
type ****.

 

[Bill Sornson]

Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:

> ... and the guy 1/2 a block away said it meant I could
> get to Ward and get laid on the same day...

Butyl or latex?

 

[Michael Press]

In article
<[email protected]>
,
"Ozark Bicycle"
<[email protected]> wrote:

> jim beam wrote:
> > Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
> > > Geezzz, another 24 inches of snow yesterday, and over 100 responses to
> > > my 'OMG, another $1000 wheelset that does what?' thread....BUT
> > >
> > > The test sings the praises of these, so I, once more, remind myself
> > > that I really love to wrench, ya know, work on bicycles, build wheels
> > > but I really don't like to 'sell'. Ya know, look somebody right in the
> > > eye and either 'make a promise' about some gadget or another, or tell
> > > him why the person down the streeet shouldn't have.
> > >
> > > I really liked the gig of JB, when he was at Excel, after leaving 'High
> > > Wheeler'..he sat behind the 'titanium curtain' and just did the
> > > wrenching, the building. Didn't have to 'take a stand' on anything,
> > > sell anything..great job.
> > >
> > but you've been in a position where you've had to trust the engineers
> > that built your planes didn't you? [presumably you didn't design and
> > build yourself.] what's changed?
>
> I don't think the marketing-types had much input into the final form of
> the F-16. I think that is what Peter objects to: the undue influence of
> marketeers in today's cycling products and the reams of specious BS
> that are a byproduct of that.

We need a return to good old genuine BS, the kind
Grampaw used to fork out.

--
Michael Press

 

[Michael Press]

In article
<[email protected]>,
"Ozark Bicycle"
<[email protected]> wrote:

> jim beam wrote:
> > Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> > > jim beam wrote:
> > >> Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
> > >>> Geezzz, another 24 inches of snow yesterday, and over 100 responses to
> > >>> my 'OMG, another $1000 wheelset that does what?' thread....BUT
> > >>>
> > >>> The test sings the praises of these, so I, once more, remind myself
> > >>> that I really love to wrench, ya know, work on bicycles, build wheels
> > >>> but I really don't like to 'sell'. Ya know, look somebody right in the
> > >>> eye and either 'make a promise' about some gadget or another, or tell
> > >>> him why the person down the streeet shouldn't have.
> > >>>
> > >>> I really liked the gig of JB, when he was at Excel, after leaving 'High
> > >>> Wheeler'..he sat behind the 'titanium curtain' and just did the
> > >>> wrenching, the building. Didn't have to 'take a stand' on anything,
> > >>> sell anything..great job.
> > >>>
> > >> but you've been in a position where you've had to trust the engineers
> > >> that built your planes didn't you? [presumably you didn't design and
> > >> build yourself.] what's changed?
> > >
> > > I don't think the marketing-types had much input into the final form of
> > > the F-16. I think that is what Peter objects to: the undue influence of
> > > marketeers in today's cycling products and the reams of specious BS
> > > that are a byproduct of that.
> > >
> > you have a good point [although you might be surprised about the sales
> > efforts behind /any/ plane].
>
> Oh, no doubt about the effort the airplane makers make selling the
> plane to the DoD. But I doubt the marketeers influence the design much
> at all.
>
>
> > but how much experience and knowhow does
> > it take to filter that? marketing is a fact of life. deal with it.
> > ask questions. the only kicker is when the sales droids outright lie,
> > but even then, if you know what you're about, you can filter that too.
>
>
>
> Not to put words in Peter's mouth, but I think he might be tired of
> dealing with people who walk into his shop drunk on the latest issue of
> BuyCycling, Cyclingnews, etc. I know I am at times.
>
> > the sales droid for my car was a lying asshole, but the car's great!
>
> Car Sales droids: perennial candidates for Lying Asshole of the Year
> awards.

I bought a new car a few years ago. The car sells
itself. The saleswoman made a half-hearted attempt to
sell me options and frippery. She wrote a price sheet,
I agreed to it, she said she would take it to the sales
manager. I said, with a smile, "If he does not accept
it, I'm lowering my offer."

--
Michael Press