Hybrid vs Flat Bar Road bike

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per Ken M:
>** Doesn't seem to me like there's a necessary correlation between
>uprightness of
>position and bar type. **
>
>There probably isn't any, I think it is mostly the design of the frames

In retrospect, I think I misread your post - thinking you were talking about
uprightness of rider position, when you were actually talking about uprightness
of bike head tube angle.
--
PeteCresswell

 

[Roger Zoul]

Ken M <[email protected]> wrote:
:> ** Also, that Trek 1000 is a comfort
:> bike, not an agressive road-racer bike. It has features built in for
:> your
:> style of riding. **
:>
:> I looked at the Trek website and found the geometry for the 1000, it
:> still does not exactly have the geo of the hybrids.

Did you look at the 1000C? What is it about the geo of the hybirds that's
so special?

 

[Ken M]

** Did you look at the 1000C? **

Yeah I just looked it up, okay I guess I was slightly wrong, they are
not that far apart, but then I think I was looking at the other 1000.
Headtube angle is only like 1/2 degree different and the seat tube
angle is the same, and actually the top tube lenght is shorter on the
1000c than on the 7300. So thanks for pointing that out. I think this
may put the 1000c in the running for my money.

Ken

 

[Roger Zoul]

Ken M <[email protected]> wrote:
:> ** Did you look at the 1000C? **
:>
:> Yeah I just looked it up, okay I guess I was slightly wrong, they are
:> not that far apart, but then I think I was looking at the other 1000.
:> Headtube angle is only like 1/2 degree different and the seat tube
:> angle is the same, and actually the top tube lenght is shorter on the
:> 1000c than on the 7300. So thanks for pointing that out. I think this
:> may put the 1000c in the running for my money.
:>
:> Ken

Actually, I was thinking of the 1000C from the getgo and had not realized
there was a 1000 (no C) until jj pointed it out. I'm familar with the
comfort bikes as my Specialized is of that type (though I'm not sure how
similar they really are). My Specialized even has two sets of brake handles
(not sure if that's a good thing but I do find myself using the ones mounted
on the tops more than those on the hoods).

 

[Ken M]

Well I just looked more closely at the specs for the 1000c and and it
too has those bar top brake levers. And funny thing, at the second LBS
here in town, the one that only sells Giants, I looked at an OCR road
bike and it too had the bar top brake levers, and an ' ajustable rise
stem ' just like on the 1000c. Now I don't know what the 1000c weights
but I picked up the OCR and it felt like a feather! I was considering
this bike also.

Ken

 

[Gooserider]

"Ken M" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> ** The
> riser bar(or flat bar) isn't really good for long distance, because
> there is
> only one hand position. **
>
> Yeah I found that when I started riding my current hardtail with flat
> bar, I put some bar ends on it, now I can ride for hours with no hand
> or wrist pain or discomfort.
>
> Ken

I have an MTB with bar ends, but it's not even close to what a good drop bar
provides. I don't like the modern anatomic bars. I use a Nitto Noodle Bar:
http://www.rivbike.com/html/parts_noodlebar.html

This bar gives me more positions---on the tops, on the bend before the
hoods, on the hoods, and in the drops. The 46cm size is what I chose, and it
was a revelation after riding 42cm bars my whole life. I was skeptical
whether the bar was really going to be as good as claimed, or whether it was
just Rivendell hype. It's that comfortable. It's a "randonneur" bar, so the
drops are flared outward, and the tops are curved toward the rider. Very
comfortable.

 

[jj]

On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 22:39:44 GMT, "Gooserider" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>"Ken M" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> ** The
>> riser bar(or flat bar) isn't really good for long distance, because
>> there is
>> only one hand position. **
>>
>> Yeah I found that when I started riding my current hardtail with flat
>> bar, I put some bar ends on it, now I can ride for hours with no hand
>> or wrist pain or discomfort.
>>
>> Ken
>
>I have an MTB with bar ends, but it's not even close to what a good drop bar
>provides. I don't like the modern anatomic bars. I use a Nitto Noodle Bar:
>http://www.rivbike.com/html/parts_noodlebar.html
>
>This bar gives me more positions---on the tops, on the bend before the
>hoods, on the hoods, and in the drops. The 46cm size is what I chose, and it
>was a revelation after riding 42cm bars my whole life. I was skeptical
>whether the bar was really going to be as good as claimed, or whether it was
>just Rivendell hype. It's that comfortable. It's a "randonneur" bar, so the
>drops are flared outward, and the tops are curved toward the rider. Very
>comfortable.

http://www.rivbike.com/webalog/handlebars_stems_tape/16111.html

This page talks about it in more detal. Dayum, that looks cool with the
flair and the 15 deg ramp. That's my only complaint with my current bar - I
tend to slide or move forward onto the hoods when I want a hand grip that's
pre-hood. Plus I like the idea of having the hoods curving slightly towards
the rider. That sound great.

jj

 

[Ken M]

** I use a Nitto Noodle Bar:
http://www.rivbike.com/html/parts_noodlebar.html
**

Yeah I have seen those, they look a little funky, but look like you get
a couple more hand positions.

Well, I have been looking around trying to be an educated consumer and
not buy something that I am not going to like, therefore not going to
ride. The guy at the Giant dealer has offered to let me test ride a
couple of bike, something the other LBS didn't do. He (giant dealer)
has an OCR that looks similar to the Trek 1000c that I might take for a
test ride and see if I can tolerate it. I think part of my problem as
far as road bikes go, is that I have been riding frames that are too
large, reading some more I have found that for my height most makers
suggest nothing larger than a 52, I have a 54 and a 56 in my garage
now, which seems to indicated that they are too big and this could be
part of my back problem.

Ken

 

[Gooserider]

"jj" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 22:39:44 GMT, "Gooserider"
> <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Ken M" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>> ** The
>>> riser bar(or flat bar) isn't really good for long distance, because
>>> there is
>>> only one hand position. **
>>>
>>> Yeah I found that when I started riding my current hardtail with flat
>>> bar, I put some bar ends on it, now I can ride for hours with no hand
>>> or wrist pain or discomfort.
>>>
>>> Ken
>>
>>I have an MTB with bar ends, but it's not even close to what a good drop
>>bar
>>provides. I don't like the modern anatomic bars. I use a Nitto Noodle Bar:
>>http://www.rivbike.com/html/parts_noodlebar.html
>>
>>This bar gives me more positions---on the tops, on the bend before the
>>hoods, on the hoods, and in the drops. The 46cm size is what I chose, and
>>it
>>was a revelation after riding 42cm bars my whole life. I was skeptical
>>whether the bar was really going to be as good as claimed, or whether it
>>was
>>just Rivendell hype. It's that comfortable. It's a "randonneur" bar, so
>>the
>>drops are flared outward, and the tops are curved toward the rider. Very
>>comfortable.
>
> http://www.rivbike.com/webalog/handlebars_stems_tape/16111.html
>
> This page talks about it in more detal. Dayum, that looks cool with the
> flair and the 15 deg ramp. That's my only complaint with my current bar -
> I
> tend to slide or move forward onto the hoods when I want a hand grip
> that's
> pre-hood. Plus I like the idea of having the hoods curving slightly
> towards
> the rider. That sound great.
>
> jj

I can't say enough good things about this bar. I think it will be the bar I
use on ever road bike I own in the future. I should buy three or four of
them just in case things with Rivendell don't work out. LOL

 

[Gooserider]

"Ken M" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> ** I use a Nitto Noodle Bar:
> http://www.rivbike.com/html/parts_noodlebar.html
> **
>
> Yeah I have seen those, they look a little funky, but look like you get
> a couple more hand positions.
>
> Well, I have been looking around trying to be an educated consumer and
> not buy something that I am not going to like, therefore not going to
> ride. The guy at the Giant dealer has offered to let me test ride a
> couple of bike, something the other LBS didn't do. He (giant dealer)
> has an OCR that looks similar to the Trek 1000c that I might take for a
> test ride and see if I can tolerate it. I think part of my problem as
> far as road bikes go, is that I have been riding frames that are too
> large, reading some more I have found that for my height most makers
> suggest nothing larger than a 52, I have a 54 and a 56 in my garage
> now, which seems to indicated that they are too big and this could be
> part of my back problem.
>
> Ken

You have to be careful. Lots of manufacturers want to set riders up with a
racer's position, which means the bars are lower than the saddle by 2-4
inches. This position makes me very uncomfortable. It bothers my neck, and
makes my hands really numb. I ride a 52, but it's a semi-compact frame and I
do have the bars at the same height as the saddle. Do you feel too stretched
out on your current bikes? Lots of fit issues can be corrected with a stem
swap.

 

[Roger Zoul]

Ken M <[email protected]> wrote:
:> ** I use a Nitto Noodle Bar:
:> http://www.rivbike.com/html/parts_noodlebar.html
:> **
:>
:> Yeah I have seen those, they look a little funky, but look like you
:> get a couple more hand positions.
:>
:> Well, I have been looking around trying to be an educated consumer
:> and not buy something that I am not going to like, therefore not
:> going to ride. The guy at the Giant dealer has offered to let me
:> test ride a couple of bike, something the other LBS didn't do.

Didn't offer or won't let you? I can't imagine buying any bike in a bike
shop without test riding. I spent lots of time test riding the bikes I
considered, on several different occasions, too. Press the issue to ensure
you get to ride as many bikes as possible so you can make a fully informed
choice from the options available to you.

He
:> (giant dealer) has an OCR that looks similar to the Trek 1000c that
:> I might take for a test ride and see if I can tolerate it. I think
:> part of my problem as far as road bikes go, is that I have been
:> riding frames that are too large, reading some more I have found
:> that for my height most makers suggest nothing larger than a 52, I
:> have a 54 and a 56 in my garage now, which seems to indicated that
:> they are too big and this could be part of my back problem.
:>
:> Ken

 

[Roger Zoul]

jj <[email protected]> wrote:
:> On Fri, 9 Sep 2005 20:04:20 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
:> <[email protected]> wrote:
:>
:>>:> Well, I have been looking around trying to be an educated consumer
:>>:> and not buy something that I am not going to like, therefore not
:>>:> going to ride. The guy at the Giant dealer has offered to let me
:>>:> test ride a couple of bike, something the other LBS didn't do.
:>>
:>>Didn't offer or won't let you? I can't imagine buying any bike in a
:>>bike shop without test riding. I spent lots of time test riding
:>>the bikes I considered, on several different occasions, too. Press
:>>the issue to ensure you get to ride as many bikes as possible so you
:>>can make a fully informed choice from the options available to you.
:>
:> Even still, the shop should have no qualms about putting the bike up
:> on a trainer and letting him ride it in the store, right? That's
:> what I did and the LBS guys were like -more- than happy to set it up
:> for me. I think one shop suggested it immediately. Heck, if they
:> don't have a trainer, suggest they get one in and call you so you
:> can come test ride a Madone! ;-p

I did my test riding in the parking lots near the store. I even went to
another city with a gf and she test rode her bike in the parking lots.

When I got ready to move to clipless pedals, I took my bike back to the LBS
and they set it up on a trainer. I spent over an hour practicing clipping
in/out after they installed the pedals and put the cleats on my shoes - some
6 months after I bought my bike. Oh, and the hot babe who sold me my bike
was making it all happen - so there was nice eye candy! Talk about service!

 

[jj]

On Fri, 9 Sep 2005 20:04:20 -0400, "Roger Zoul" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>:> Well, I have been looking around trying to be an educated consumer
>:> and not buy something that I am not going to like, therefore not
>:> going to ride. The guy at the Giant dealer has offered to let me
>:> test ride a couple of bike, something the other LBS didn't do.
>
>Didn't offer or won't let you? I can't imagine buying any bike in a bike
>shop without test riding. I spent lots of time test riding the bikes I
>considered, on several different occasions, too. Press the issue to ensure
>you get to ride as many bikes as possible so you can make a fully informed
>choice from the options available to you.

Even still, the shop should have no qualms about putting the bike up on a
trainer and letting him ride it in the store, right? That's what I did and
the LBS guys were like -more- than happy to set it up for me. I think one
shop suggested it immediately. Heck, if they don't have a trainer, suggest
they get one in and call you so you can come test ride a Madone! ;-p

jj

 

[Ken M]

:> ** I use a Nitto Noodle Bar:
:> http://www.rivbike.com/html/parts_noodlebar.html
:> **
:>
:> Yeah I have seen those, they look a little funky, but look like you
:> get a couple more hand positions.
:>
:> Well, I have been looking around trying to be an educated consumer
:> and not buy something that I am not going to like, therefore not
:> going to ride. The guy at the Giant dealer has offered to let me
:> test ride a couple of bike, something the other LBS didn't do.

Didn't offer or won't let you? I can't imagine buying any bike in a
bike
shop without test riding. I spent lots of time test riding the bikes
I
considered, on several different occasions, too. Press the issue to
ensure
you get to ride as many bikes as possible so you can make a fully
informed
choice from the options available to you.

The Trek dealer hasn't offered to let me test ride any of thier bikes.


Ken

 

[Ken M]

>Didn't offer or won't let you? I can't imagine buying any bike in a bike
>shop without test riding. I spent lots of time test riding the bikes I
>considered, on several different occasions, too. Press the issue to ensure
>you get to ride as many bikes as possible so you can make a fully informed
>choice from the options available to you.



Even still, the shop should have no qualms about putting the bike up on
a
trainer and letting him ride it in the store, right? That's what I did
and
the LBS guys were like -more- than happy to set it up for me. I think
one
shop suggested it immediately. Heck, if they don't have a trainer,
suggest
they get one in and call you so you can come test ride a Madone! ;-p

LOL yeah I think if I said I wanted to spen $7000 on a new Trek they
would GLADLY put one up on a trainer for me! Well seeing how there is
only 1 Trek dealer anywhere close to me I am a bit limited to where I
can go, the next Trek dealer is like 50 miles away.

Ken

 

[Ken M]

I did my test riding in the parking lots near the store. I even went
to
another city with a gf and she test rode her bike in the parking lots.

Well the Giant dealer is in a plaza with a HUGE parking lot, the Trek
dealer only has a small PL but the one next to them is vacant, so it
could serve as a test site.


When I got ready to move to clipless pedals, I took my bike back to the
LBS
and they set it up on a trainer. I spent over an hour practicing
clipping
in/out after they installed the pedals and put the cleats on my shoes -
some
6 months after I bought my bike. Oh, and the hot babe who sold me my
bike
was making it all happen - so there was nice eye candy! Talk about
service!



No hot babe's in either LBS here!

Ken

 

[Ken M]

** You have to be careful. Lots of manufacturers want to set riders up
with a
racer's position, which means the bars are lower than the saddle by 2-4

inches. This position makes me very uncomfortable. It bothers my neck,
and
makes my hands really numb. I ride a 52, but it's a semi-compact frame
and I
do have the bars at the same height as the saddle. Do you feel too
stretched
out on your current bikes? Lots of fit issues can be corrected with a
stem
swap.**

Yeah I do feel stretched, particularly on the drops, not so much on the
bar tops.
Well I think the 52 would be the max I should be on in a road frame.
And I have tried different bar to saddle heights, and the ' best '
position I have found put the bar tops a couple of inches OVER the
saddle.

Ken

 

[~R]

Alot of replies. Hope you get to read mine's. If you're in the
market for a Trek 7000 series, I'd like to reccomend the 7000FX
series. The difference is it doesn't have the front shocks, so
you don't lose power to the crank. It's basically a faster bike.
You still have the seat post shock, though. I have a 7200FX and
my wife has a 7100. Both are good quality machines, but I think
the FX is just all around better. Cheaper, too, because it
doesn't have that front shock, there. The FX line has many in
your price range. I can ride it all day with no discomfort, and I
do not have bar ends added on. Good luck with your search for a
new bike. I know I was a pain in the ass to my LBS for a while
before I decided.

~Rob



"Ken M" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
: I am having a heck of time trying to decide what type of bike
to buy
: for my first 'NEW' bike. At first I was leaning towards a
hardtail mtb,
: like the Trek 3700 or 4300, then after thinking about it for a
day or
: so I decided that that would be 'more bike than I need' so then
I was
: considering the Trek 7000 series hybrids particularly the 7300,
or the
: Giant Cypress DX. But then I started looking at a couple of
'Flat Bar
: Road Bikes' like the Ibex Corrida or one of the K2 flat bar
models. I
: think it's called the 'Astral' or something like that.
:
: I like and can tolerate the more upright geometry that the
hardtails
: give, which seems to be the same with the hybrids, but I like
the
: lightweightness of a road bike.
:
: I have been only trying to look in the local bike shops so I
can 'put
: my hands' on the bikes and 'see' them in person. But with only
two LBS
: my selection seems a little limited ( 5 brands ), Trek,
Raliegh,
: Cannondale, Giant, and Sun recumbents.
:
: I know that as a first time bike buyer I 'should' by from a
local
: dealer. But if I decide to buy over the net are there any
little
: mistakes I could make that will turn into huge probelms? I know
about
: sizing, is there any thing else I need to consider?
:
: Ken
:

 

[jj]

On 10 Sep 2005 04:04:24 -0700, "Ken M" <[email protected]> wrote:

>>>Didn't offer or won't let you? I can't imagine buying any bike in a bike
>>>shop without test riding. I spent lots of time test riding the bikes I
>>>considered, on several different occasions, too. Press the issue to ensure
>>>you get to ride as many bikes as possible so you can make a fully informed
>>>choice from the options available to you.
>>
>>
>>
>>Even still, the shop should have no qualms about putting the bike up on
>>a trainer and letting him ride it in the store, right? That's what I did
>>and the LBS guys were like -more- than happy to set it up for me. I think
>>one shop suggested it immediately. Heck, if they don't have a trainer,
>>suggest they get one in and call you so you can come test ride a Madone! ;-p
>
>LOL yeah I think if I said I wanted to spen $7000 on a new Trek they
>would GLADLY put one up on a trainer for me! Well seeing how there is
>only 1 Trek dealer anywhere close to me I am a bit limited to where I
>can go, the next Trek dealer is like 50 miles away.
>
>Ken

Point is, a customer is a customer. Besides, they treat a bike buyer right
and he'll be back to buy his gear, typically spending an amount equal to
the cost of the bike in about 2 years for an active rider.

Shorts, tights, jersey, gloves, bike shoes, clipless pedals, rain gear,
sports drinks, sunglasses, bike computers, a trainer, tires, tubes, chain,
oil. They all add up. YMMV, but a typical customer spends quite a bit in
the first two years, ime. ;-)

Unfortunately for my Trek deal who treated me badly after the sale, I
bought all this stuff across the street at Performance which has a
genuinely caring staff of young guys. They also have an excellent rapport
with the customer. Even did some work on my Trek for free (mostly because I
bought my pedals and shoes there the day before, I think).

jj

 

[Ken M]

** Point is, a customer is a customer. Besides, they treat a bike buyer
right
and he'll be back to buy his gear, typically spending an amount equal
to
the cost of the bike in about 2 years for an active rider.**

I agree, a customer is a customer, but IMO it depends on how much of
thier time they think you are wasting. I went down there again this
morning, pretty busy on Saturday mornings, so I wasn't expecting anyone
to spend anytime on a ' browser ', seeing as how I have been in there
' browsing ' three times this week. But I went in to see if they had
any 1000c, no way. Not a one. One had 6 or 7 road bikes on display,
lots of mtb's and hybrids. But anyway, I was looking at a bunch of
different models, and I had spent some time there, and then a 'wrench'
from the back made a comment that sent me out the door. He said "
Picked one out yet?" but the sarcasm in his voice said okay this guy is
a jerk. But that is why he's just a paid ' wrench' I guess. Good thing
they all don't have that attitude.

Ken