Hydrate and die

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Richard Ney, May 6, 2003.

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  1. Richard Ney

    Richard Ney Guest

    New York Times May 6, 2003 New Advice to Runners: Don't Drink the Water By GINA KOLATA

    Every athlete, every fitness enthusiast has heard the advice to drink plenty of water. Drink as much
    as you can. Don't wait until you are thirsty. By then it may be too late. You may be seriously
    dehydrated, risking dizziness, collapse, even death. "Stay ahead of your thirst," athletes and
    would-be athletes are told.

    But now USA Track & Field, the national governing body for track and field, long-distance running
    and race walking, says that advice is wrong. In what it calls a major revision of its guidelines,
    the organization says endurance athletes, who may be consuming huge amounts of water over the course
    of a long event, may risk seizures, respiratory failure and even death from drinking too much.

    Instead of drinking as much as they can, the new guidelines say, runners should drink when they are
    thirsty. People in long races like marathons may want to weigh themselves before and after long
    practice runs to see how much they lose from sweating and drink that amount when they race, and no
    more. The guidelines are at www.usatf.org.

    Dr. David E. Martin, an exercise physiologist at Georgia State University in Atlanta, called the
    change revolutionary and overdue. He is a co-author of a new advisory statement on fluid
    replacement in marathons written for the International Marathon Medical Directors Association.
    It was a supporting statement for the track and field advisory.

    Ds. Martin said the old advice was leading to water gorging, with people stopping at every water
    stop, downing water cups and so diluting their blood that their sodium levels plummeted, a
    condition known as hyponatremia.

    The problem occurs in any endurance event that gives people the time to drink and drink and drink.
    It emerges among people who hike the Grand Canyon, in those who compete in Ironman Triathlons and,
    most notably, in marathons.

    Hyponatremia is not a problem for elite marathon runners, Dr. Martin said, because they go too fast
    to drink too much. "Running at a five-minutes-per-mile pace," he said, "there's no way you can drink
    enough to get hyponatremia."

    Those runners, he added, have their own water stations, the elite water stops, where they have their
    own sports drinks that they have chosen in advance.

    Instead, Dr. Martin said, the problem is with slower runners, who may take as long as nine hours to
    run a race. They may be running with groups of friends, raising money for a favorite charity. Or
    they may be tourist runners, people who plan vacations around marathons.

    "We're worried about this increasingly large group of people, taking courses in how to run a
    marathon, going to shoe shops to learn how to run," Dr. Martin said. "What has been told to them is
    the party line. Make sure you drink. You can't drink too much. Carry water with you or you will get
    dehydrated. Don't worry about heat, just drink more. That's wrong. It's wrong, wrong, wrong."

    What about the risks of dehydration, leading to heatstroke as the body temperature soars? Grossly
    exaggerated, medical experts say. Most athletes who collapse at the finish line suffer from postural
    hypotension, a drop in blood pressure when blood pools in the legs, and not from heatstroke.

    Examining information on illnesses in marathons since 1985, Dr. Martin and Dr. Tim Noakes of the
    University in Cape Town in South Africa, write in the advisory statement, "It has been difficult to
    find any studies in which dehydration has been identified as the sole important causative factor in
    even a single case of exercise-related heatstroke."

    But they reported that they found 70 cases of severe hyponatremia.

    Many start the race overhydrated, having fallen for what Dr. Heinz Valtin, a physiologist at
    Dartmouth Medical College, deems a medical myth: that dehydration is always lurking and must be
    fended off with more or less constant sipping of water.

    In a paper published in November in The American Journal of Physiology, he said he could find no
    scientific support for the common advice for healthy adults to drink at least eight glasses of water
    a day and that the benefits that have been claimed - weight loss, relief of constipation, less
    fatigue, increased alertness and so on - have no foundation in rigorous studies. "In my opinion, the
    vast majority of healthy people do not need that much water," he said.

    Dt. Martin agreed, saying: "People have been carrying bottles of water with them. Some people
    actually get water intoxication syndrome. They feel lethargic from drinking too much. I worry
    about the sanity of those people."

    --

    Richard Ney
     
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  2. Richard Ney <[email protected]> wrote:
    : New York Times May 6, 2003 New Advice to Runners: Don't Drink the Water By GINA KOLATA

    This certainly isn't news. Knowledge of hypnotremia has been around for a while. Put the term in a
    Google search for over 21,000 hits.

    I'm not trying to be a knowledge chauvinist in any shape or form. It's just that this topic comes up
    from time to time in this very newsgroup and has had a fair run. To see it framed as the latest news
    is evidence of the sensational nature of the popular press.

    It seems one would have to really work hard at drinking water to develop water toxicity/hypnotremia,
    so, for most of us it's a non-issue. Just use common sense with hydration and nutrition.

    Cheerz, Lynzz
     
  3. Richard Ney

    Richard Ney Guest

    Lindsay Rowlands writes:

    >> New Advice to Runners: Don't Drink the Water By GINA KOLATA
    >
    > This certainly isn't news. Knowledge of hypnotremia has been around for a while. Put the term in a
    > Google search for over 21,000 hits.
    >
    > I'm not trying to be a knowledge chauvinist in any shape or form. It's just that this topic comes
    > up from time to time in this very newsgroup and has had a fair run. To see it framed as the latest
    > news is evidence of the sensational nature of the popular press.
    >
    > It seems one would have to really work hard at drinking water to develop water
    > toxicity/hypnotremia, so, for most of us it's a non-issue. Just use common sense with hydration
    > and nutrition.

    Is that right? Last I recall, there was a lot of hand-wringing in this NG about not getting enough
    water while biking. But perhaps I'm not the wreck-bike devotee that you are.
     
  4. Jobst Brandt

    Jobst Brandt Guest

    Lindsay Rowlands writes:

    > This certainly isn't news. Knowledge of hypnotremia has been around for a while. Put the term in a
    > Google search for over 21,000 hits.

    > I'm not trying to be a knowledge chauvinist in any shape or form. It's just that this topic comes
    > up from time to time in this very newsgroup and has had a fair run. To see it framed as the latest
    > news is evidence of the sensational nature of the popular press.

    Regardless of what your not trying to be, your perspective has not been supported by contributors to
    this subject here on wreck.bike. We hear endless testimonials of what proper hydration requires and
    it isn't what this report presents in the least. Color of urine is a favorite indicator rather than
    thirst or dry mouth.

    > It seems one would have to really work hard at drinking water to develop water
    > toxicity/hypnotremia, so, for most of us it's a non-issue. Just use common sense with hydration
    > and nutrition.

    Just the same, Camelbak drives this subject and the number of people riding with warm water bottle
    on their backs growing algae is enormous. If you are well versed on the matter, where have you
    been lurking?

    Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA
     
  5. Richard Ney <[email protected]> wrote:
    : Lindsay Rowlands writes:

    :>> New Advice to Runners: Don't Drink the Water By GINA KOLATA
    :>
    :> This certainly isn't news. Knowledge of hypnotremia has been around for a while. Put the term in
    :> a Google search for over 21,000 hits.
    :>
    :> I'm not trying to be a knowledge chauvinist in any shape or form. It's just that this topic comes
    :> up from time to time in this very newsgroup and has had a fair run. To see it framed as the
    :> latest news is evidence of the sensational nature of the popular press.
    :>
    :> It seems one would have to really work hard at drinking water to develop water
    :> toxicity/hypnotremia, so, for most of us it's a non-issue. Just use common sense with hydration
    :> and nutrition.

    : Is that right? Last I recall, there was a lot of hand-wringing in this NG about not getting enough
    : water while biking. But perhaps I'm not the wreck-bike devotee that you are.

    Now, now. Let's not stoop to name calling. ;-)

    Please don't be so reactive. I was just trying to avert panic and a feeding frenzy, but if that's
    what people want do, don't let me stop 'em.

    Cheerz, Lynzz
     
  6. [email protected] wrote:

    : Just the same, Camelbak drives this subject and the number of people riding with warm water bottle
    : on their backs growing algae is enormous. If you are well versed on the matter, where have you
    : been lurking?

    As I said, the subject has been around for a while. Where have you been?

    Let the games begin...

    But wouldn't you rather be appropriately informed before panicking about drinking too much water?
    Enter 'hypnotremia' in a Google search for many nights of riveting reading.

    If you feel I've missed a vital aspect of the research so that I should be concerned about dropping
    dead from swigging too much and too often, please let me know. Then again, it may be too late - I
    was thinking about having drink of water right now.

    Salute! Goodbye cruel world...

    Cheerz, Lynzz
     
  7. David Kunz

    David Kunz Guest

    Richard Ney wrote:
    > Lindsay Rowlands writes:
    >
    >
    >>>New Advice to Runners: Don't Drink the Water By GINA KOLATA
    >>
    >>This certainly isn't news. Knowledge of hypnotremia has been around for a while. Put the term in a
    >>Google search for over 21,000 hits.
    >>
    >>I'm not trying to be a knowledge chauvinist in any shape or form. It's just that this topic comes
    >>up from time to time in this very newsgroup and has had a fair run. To see it framed as the latest
    >>news is evidence of the sensational nature of the popular press.
    >>
    >>It seems one would have to really work hard at drinking water to develop water
    >>toxicity/hypnotremia, so, for most of us it's a non-issue. Just use common sense with hydration
    >>and nutrition.
    >
    >
    > Is that right? Last I recall, there was a lot of hand-wringing in this NG about not getting enough
    > water while biking. But perhaps I'm not the wreck-bike devotee that you are.
    >

    From what I've read, this article misses a key point (probably in order to be sensational).
    Hypnotremia is caused by dilution -- if you drink replentishing liquids instead of water alone, you
    don't have this problem.

    I *believe* that lots of studies have been done that support that energy levels are related to how
    dehydrated you are and that once you're behind, you can't typically catch-up unless you decrease the
    pace (take a rest). I've seen both of these in my own experience when I do more than an hour or 2 of
    riding on a hot day. AND, I find that I can't rehydrate on water alone -- it just doesn't satisfy my
    thirst after a quart or so, which is why I carry water in my hydration pak and gatoraide in bottles
    on the frame.

    These factors have been discussed in this group lots of times, with many opinions on what
    replentishing liquid to carry on the frame :).

    AND *I personally* had a fellow rider have a dehydration related stroke because he didn't drink
    enough water on a hot day. This is what his cardiologist told him and what the emergency room
    doctors told him. It's 3 years later and he's still paralized on one side, can't talk intelligibly,
    and can't ride any more. Every so often, he used to go out on a tandem with his next door neighbor,
    but I haven't seen him do this in a while.

    David
     
  8. Dave Kahn

    Dave Kahn Guest

    Lindsay Rowlands <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...

    > But wouldn't you rather be appropriately informed before panicking about drinking too much water?
    > Enter 'hypnotremia' in a Google search for many nights of riveting reading.

    Even better, try hyponatremia.

    --
    Dave...
     
  9. Dave Kahn <[email protected]> wrote:
    : Lindsay Rowlands <[email protected]> wrote in message
    : news:<[email protected]>...

    :> But wouldn't you rather be appropriately informed before panicking about drinking too much water?
    :> Enter 'hypnotremia' in a Google search for many nights of riveting reading.

    : Even better, try hyponatremia.

    Oops! It's not exactly a word I use regularly and often my fingers type their own versions and
    letter patterns.

    Cheerz, Lynzz
     
  10. Ajames54

    Ajames54 Guest

    On 7 May 2003 02:39:03 GMT, Lindsay Rowlands <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Richard Ney <[email protected]> wrote:
    >: New York Times May 6, 2003 New Advice to Runners: Don't Drink the Water By GINA KOLATA
    >
    >
    >This certainly isn't news. Knowledge of hypnotremia has been around for a while. Put the term in a
    >Google search for over 21,000 hits.
    >
    >I'm not trying to be a knowledge chauvinist in any shape or form. It's just that this topic comes
    >up from time to time in this very newsgroup and has had a fair run. To see it framed as the latest
    >news is evidence of the sensational nature of the popular press.
    >
    >It seems one would have to really work hard at drinking water to develop water
    >toxicity/hypnotremia, so, for most of us it's a non-issue. Just use common sense with hydration and
    >nutrition.
    >
    >Cheerz, Lynzz
    >
    >
    >
    I agree that it has been around for a while... but I think it may be one of those things that we
    need to have a bit of an over reaction about...

    It seems like every year at least one person in the club I ride with does this to themselves...
    despite the fact that it is specifically mentioned at least two times in the training program and
    once in the medical waiver everyone must sign.

    As far as nobody talking about it here... I don't even remember one discussion about hydration, it
    is below my radar in a tech group ... (it was only the clever slam at camel back that had my
    attention)
     
  11. Paul J Pharr

    Paul J Pharr Guest

    "Lindsay Rowlands" <[email protected]> wrote in message

    > Oops! It's not exactly a word I use regularly and often my fingers type their own versions and
    > letter patterns.

    My keyboard dyslexic is too...{;-)

    Paul J Pharr
     
  12. Hawke

    Hawke Guest

    <[email protected]> wrote in message news:nW%[email protected]...
    > Lindsay Rowlands writes:
    >
    > > This certainly isn't news. Knowledge of hypnotremia has been around for a while. Put the term in
    > > a Google search for over 21,000 hits.
    >
    > > I'm not trying to be a knowledge chauvinist in any shape or form. It's just that this topic
    > > comes up from time to time in this very newsgroup and has had a fair run. To see it framed as
    > > the latest news is evidence of the sensational nature of the popular press.
    >
    > Regardless of what your not trying to be, your perspective has not been supported by contributors
    > to this subject here on wreck.bike. We hear endless testimonials of what proper hydration requires
    > and it isn't what this report presents in the least. Color of urine is a favorite indicator rather
    > than thirst or dry mouth.

    But I've always had problems checking the colour of my urine while cycling.

    My ding-a-ling tends to get caught in the spokes or drag on the ground.

    Hawke
     
  13. Jobst Brandt

    Jobst Brandt Guest

    Hawke who? writes:

    >>> This certainly isn't news. Knowledge of hypnotremia has been around for a while. Put the term in
    >>> a Google search for over 21,000 hits.

    >>> I'm not trying to be a knowledge chauvinist in any shape or form. It's just that this topic
    >>> comes up from time to time in this very newsgroup and has had a fair run. To see it framed as
    >>> the latest news is evidence of the sensational nature of the popular press.

    >> Regardless of what your not trying to be, your perspective has not been supported by contributors
    >> to this subject here on wreck.bike. We hear endless testimonials of what proper hydration
    >> requires and it isn't what this report presents in the least. Color of urine is a favorite
    >> indicator rather than thirst or dry mouth.

    > But I've always had problems checking the colour of my urine while cycling. My ding-a-ling tends
    > to get caught in the spokes or drag on the ground.

    Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA
     
  14. Jobst Brandt

    Jobst Brandt Guest

    Hawke who? writes:

    >>> This certainly isn't news. Knowledge of hypnotremia has been around for a while. Put the term in
    >>> a Google search for over 21,000 hits.

    >>> I'm not trying to be a knowledge chauvinist in any shape or form. It's just that this topic
    >>> comes up from time to time in this very newsgroup and has had a fair run. To see it framed as
    >>> the latest news is evidence of the sensational nature of the popular press.

    >> Regardless of what your not trying to be, your perspective has not been supported by contributors
    >> to this subject here on wreck.bike. We hear endless testimonials of what proper hydration
    >> requires and it isn't what this report presents in the least. Color of urine is a favorite
    >> indicator rather than thirst or dry mouth.

    > But I've always had problems checking the colour of my urine while cycling. My ding-a-ling tends
    > to get caught in the spokes or drag on the ground.

    Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA
     
  15. Which is why, on long rides, I not only take energy drinks, but mineral tablets as well (mainly
    magnesium, potassium, iron, zinc, Vit. C.)

    Sodium I probably get enough from the drinks and food at the stop. Processed foods are notoriously
    high in sodium.

    May you have the wind at your back. And a really low gear for the hills! Chris

    Chris'Z Corner "The Website for the Common Bicyclist": http://www.geocities.com/czcorner
     
  16. Fritz M

    Fritz M Guest

    [email protected] (Chris Zacho "The Wheelman") wrote:

    > Yeah, but isn't algae an easily digested food source? ;-3)

    There's a guy I know who buys and drinks cyanobacteria ("blue-green algae"). He brings a case of
    this bacteria juice to a backyard potluck picnic. I've got an open mind so I try it out. Think
    "sewer sludge" and you'll get a pretty good idea of the odor, taste, and texture of the stuff.

    RFM
    --
    To reply, translate domain from l33+ 2p33|< to alpha. 4=a 0=o 3=e +=t
     
  17. Edward Dike

    Edward Dike Guest

    "Fritz M" <[email protected]+> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    | [email protected] (Chris Zacho "The Wheelman") wrote:
    |
    |
    | > Yeah, but isn't algae an easily digested food source? ;-3)
    |
    | There's a guy I know who buys and drinks cyanobacteria ("blue-green algae"). He brings a case of
    | this bacteria juice to a backyard potluck picnic. I've got an open mind so I try it out. Think
    | "sewer sludge" and you'll get a pretty good idea of the odor, taste, and texture of the
    stuff.
    |
    | RFM
    | --
    | To reply, translate domain from l33+ 2p33|< to alpha. 4=a 0=o 3=e +=t

    Reminds me of Detective Mick Belker on Hill Street Blues.

    ED3
     
  18. Tim McNamara

    Tim McNamara Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, Fritz M <[email protected]+> wrote:

    > [email protected] (Chris Zacho "The Wheelman") wrote:
    >
    > > Yeah, but isn't algae an easily digested food source? ;-3)
    >
    > There's a guy I know who buys and drinks cyanobacteria ("blue-green algae"). He brings a case of
    > this bacteria juice to a backyard potluck picnic. I've got an open mind so I try it out. Think
    > "sewer sludge" and you'll get a pretty good idea of the odor, taste, and texture of the stuff.

    Well, it is pond scum quite literally. Its proponents consider it a "super food," but I recall a few
    years ago the discovery in the news that much of the "blue green algae" being sold as a food
    supplement in the U.S. actually came from a heavily polluted lake in Mexico.

    If we were supposed to each pond scum, we'd be aquatic and have baleen instead of teeth.
     
  19. Hawke

    Hawke Guest

    "Chris Zacho "The Wheelman"" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > "Camelbak drives this subject and the number of people riding with warm water bottle on their
    > backs growing algae is enormous. If you are well versed on the matter, where have you been
    > lurking?
    >
    > Jobst Brandt"
    >
    > Yeah, but isn't algae an easily digested food source? ;-3)

    This is true and if you carry rice in your shorts it picks up a slightly sushi flavor and then you
    can apply the algae to the rice instead of seaweed "norii".

    Instant Sushi!

    Hawke
     
  20. Hawke

    Hawke Guest

    <[email protected]> wrote in message news:E%[email protected]...
    > Hawke who? writes:
    >
    > >>> This certainly isn't news. Knowledge of hypnotremia has been around for a while. Put the term
    > >>> in a Google search for over 21,000 hits.
    >
    > >>> I'm not trying to be a knowledge chauvinist in any shape or form. It's just that this topic
    > >>> comes up from time to time in this very newsgroup and has had a fair run. To see it framed as
    > >>> the latest news is evidence of the sensational nature of the popular press.
    >
    > >> Regardless of what your not trying to be, your perspective has not been supported by
    > >> contributors to this subject here on wreck.bike. We hear endless testimonials of what proper
    > >> hydration requires and it isn't what this report presents in the least. Color of urine is a
    > >> favorite indicator rather than thirst or dry mouth.
    >
    > > But I've always had problems checking the colour of my urine while cycling. My ding-a-ling tends
    > > to get caught in the spokes or drag on the ground.
    >

    Thanks for the advice Jobst, but I'm afraid that I might poke out my eye if I did! <G>

    Hawke
     
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