Hydration backpacks (Camelbak)



vadiver said:
Back to your example of deficit drinking. Why woulld you be at a deficit of 250ml/hr by drinking out of a pack vs. a bottle? When you are competing do you see your bottle and think, I need a drink, what triger do you use to drink?

For reasons that are obvious: he's clueless. It's simple knowing when to drink has nothing to do with whether or not you can see inside your container. Getting dehydrated has nothing to do--asolutely nothing to do--with getting dehydrated. It's simply an excuse, a rationalization for those that weren't with it enough to stay hydrated: it makes them feel better about themselves.
 
vadiver said:
If you are going to use Well the Pros ..... argument. We should all be using banned substances, after all many pro cyclists have admitted to using bannend substances. How many more do, and have not admitted it?

Should they be out there or not, in thinking more about this, I would say yes, they should not be out there for their own good.

If they cannot pay enough attention to preserve thier body/life should they be out there at all? Many athletes/people have died due to heat stroke, some of them even pro. We like to blame everyone but the person who suffered from coaches to parents. The fact is, any adult should know when to drink. If they want to weigh "making the team", "winning the race" over their life/health, good for them. IMHO, they are making the wrong choice.

Yup. Using pro's as an example is about as stupid and useless as an argument can get. Firstly, where does it say that pros possess all knowledge about their bodies or their sport? Pro's are subject to the same stupid ideas that others have. Second, pro's may be perfectly willing--conciously or subconciously--to sacrifice their own safety to win. Part of winning, at times in some sports, might require taking a risk.....maybe a huge risk.
 
sideshow_bob said:
stick to numbers alienator clearly you're having mucho difficulty grasping simple literacy and comprehension. my posts imply nothing of the sort, you're simply deluded. i've stated in very clear terms on a number of occassions that using a hydration pack you have no simple visual guide in determining how much or little fluid you've taken. it's basically a yes or no answer. now you want to come up with a genius rebuttal to that statement (and stick only to that statement) then go right ahead. maybe post some of your equations.

it's still less lame than the ******** attitude you bring to ever thread you decide to grace with your presence.

--brett

First, look up "deluded,", Cupcake, because you don't know how to use it correctly in a sentence. Second, "visual guide?" Are you serious? Man, I guess you really came up short with your rationalizations for 2006. Well, Cupcake, if you need a visual aid for your Cambelback, then it's right there at the bite valve: fluid flowrate decreases as the volume in the pack decreases. Now, I know that simple little me has taken note of the fact, on a ride, that I must be nearing the bottom of my Camelback when I saw how the water flowrate had gone way done. Imagine that. Of course, I instantly was able to make a rough approximation of my fluid intake:

Let's see...my Camelback holds 2.1 liters of fluid. The flowrate has gone way down so I know that I am approximately at the end of the tank. How much have I had to drink. Hmmmmm, better get out the big math guns............2.1/1=.......hey! 2.1 liters. Wow. I bet even Sideshow Bob could do that math!

Sorry about the attitude, Cupcake: the only thing that gets me in a dander on internet forums is when people promulgate and perpetuate stupidity when it comes to answering questions.
 
vadiver said:
The other question that I have for you since you think it is important to know the volume of fluid you have consumed at a particular point in time is: How do you know the amount of fluid you have lost to that point?
For the stuff I do you get weighed prerace and several times during the event for safety reasons. So yeah, I know if I am down two liters at 75 miles.
 
Bro Deal said:
For the stuff I do you get weighed prerace and several times during the event for safety reasons. So yeah, I know if I am down two liters at 75 miles.


So, I guess the point is that you don't know how to stay hydrated, right?
 
alienator said:
So, I guess the point is that you don't know how to stay hydrated, right?
No, the point is that a Walter Mitty like you might want to get some real world experience before spouting off about ultrarunning, mountaineering, climbing, or anything else you don't have a clue about.. Sorry, Poindexter, putting your nose in books is no substitute for real world experience.

The fact that in ultra events, whether they are running, adventure racing, or other competitions of similar lengths often have high dropout rates due to under or over hydration is a clear argument against your belief that hydration can be done by feel. The last hot weather 100 I did had a drop out rate of nearly 50%. I guess all those guys just had no clue. They should have talked to little alienator who could tell them how to calculate decreasing rates of water flow as the volume in their Camelbaks went down.

Interesting that in everything else you are always quick to whip out your slide rule and put everything in numbers, but here you are adamant that you can perceive how much fluid you need. Precisiion calibrated I am sure; maybe next you can tell us how you can feel rolling resistance.
 
Bro Deal said:
No, the point is that a Walter Mitty like you might want to get some real world experience before spouting off about ultrarunning, mountaineering, climbing, or anything else you don't have a clue about.. Sorry, Poindexter, putting your nose in books is no substitute for real world experience.

So that's what you assumed, eh Bro? Stud-muffin like you, ultra marathoner? What the hell do you know about what anyone else does? Nada that's what.

Bro Deal said:
The fact that in ultra events, whether they are running, adventure racing, or other competitions of similar lengths often have high dropout rates due to under or over hydration is a clear argument against your belief that hydration can be done by feel. The last hot weather 100 I did had a drop out rate of nearly 50%. I guess all those guys just had no clue. They should have talked to little alienator who could tell them how to calculate decreasing rates of water flow as the volume in their Camelbaks went down.

Nope. All this proves is that athletes in certain disciplines are willing to sacrifice some things, to take certain risks in order to win. It says nothing about staying hydrated.

Those dropouts took the wrong risk and failed. They could have stayed hydrated. Point me to a paper that says that it's impossible or even improbable that some "ultra marathoner" will stay properly hydrated.
Ah, wait: you can't. Yeah, it'll require an actual paper, real scientific study because your chortlings and claims are not proof of anything, except that human perception is a flighty thing.

As for the Walter Mitty stuff: you're just a screen name. For all we know, you could be a fat duffer, eating chips in front of a computer screen. Your claims gain you nothing.

Bro Deal said:
Interesting that in everything else you are always quick to whip out your slide rule and put everything in numbers, but here you are adamant that you can perceive how much fluid you need. Precisiion calibrated I am sure; maybe next you can tell us how you can feel rolling resistance.

Actually, we don't do slide rules anymore. You ought to catch up with the times. As for numbers, I don't need to whip them out because the rate at which someone uses up water in their body is dependent on their metabolism, the activity they're involved in, and any other physical factors such as illness. All that is required for a numerical approach for that person is for them to calibrate their water use for that level of activity. That you or your less than brainy friends couldn't figure that out speaks volumes about you. You have to do your own numbers.

Really....you didn't know that? How long have you been posing as an ultra-marathoner?

Let me know when you actually come up with facts about what I do, and don't forget to speak large, Cupcake.
 
alienator said:
Sorry about the attitude, Cupcake: the only thing that gets me in a dander on internet forums is when people promulgate and perpetuate stupidity when it comes to answering questions.
A middle age college student and thats all you've got? Nice, glad to see that those education $$ are working out for you. Maybe come back and play when meds become available to sort out your Asperger's syndrome and you can actually become a productive member of society.

Actually maybe come back and give us some advice after you've done any reasonable quantity of racing. Until then, bye now.

--brett
 
sideshow_bob said:
A middle age college student and thats all you've got? Nice, glad to see that those education $$ are working out for you. Maybe come back and play when meds become available to sort out your Asperger's syndrome and you can actually become a productive member of society.

Actually maybe come back and give us some advice after you've done any reasonable quantity of racing. Until then, bye now.

--brett

That's all I've got?

What's wrong, Cupcake: you think the totalty of someone's existance is in a profile? Man, you are a simple little boy, aren't you?

Oh, please, Cupcake: tell us about your vast racing experience. Please! Impress us!

And what have you got, little boy?
 
Bro Deal said:
For the stuff I do you get weighed prerace and several times during the event for safety reasons. So yeah, I know if I am down two liters at 75 miles.
And do you weigh yourself when you are taining to know how much you have lost?

How many hours are you in the race at 75 miles? Cycling I would be at about 3 to 4 hours depending on what I am doing and where. If a person is down two Lts in that short of time there is no way thay are going to make that up with out stoping.

If it takes a weigh in to figure out they have screwed up, who cares how many bottles they have had. They obviously did not have enough. And again, does it make a difference as to what their method was for not drinking?
 
Bro Deal said:
<snip>
The fact that in ultra events, whether they are running, adventure racing, or other competitions of similar lengths often have high dropout rates due to under or over hydration is a clear argument against your belief that hydration can be done by feel. The last hot weather 100 I did had a drop out rate of nearly 50%. I guess all those guys just had no clue. They should have talked to little alienator who could tell them how to calculate decreasing rates of water flow as the volume in their Camelbaks went down.

Interesting that in everything else you are always quick to whip out your slide rule and put everything in numbers, but here you are adamant that you can perceive how much fluid you need. Precisiion calibrated I am sure; maybe next you can tell us how you can feel rolling resistance.
Out of the 50% that droped out what was their method of not drinkning? What percent were bottlers and what CBs? Then what was the percentage of each of the finishers?

I have done several hot weather TTs. Almost everyone is using bottles, many dehydrate. And yes I would say they do not have a clue.

I think there has only been one person saying they know how much fluid they need. Everyone else has been saying drink early and often. And then there are some of us you know how much fluid we have by feel. You probably could too if you wanted to learn. If you do not know how your body functions given certain situations you need to pay more attention to your body.


If you want to start learning take seven of you 750ml bottles. Put 100ml in one, 200ml in the other, etc. Then line them up blind folded. You too will soon learn what 100ml of water feels like.

I could not run a 75+ ultra marithon, but I beilve it could be done.
 
You guys are pretty funny.:D I like my camelbak and use it when I ride but that doesn't mean it is better or worse than other methods for keeping hydrated. I think the important thing is you pick a method that works for you. If you are consistantly finding yourself dehydrated at the end of activities then you should probably change the way you are doing things. Otherwise who cares if we use different methods as long as we don't injure ourselves or others.

I am pretty new to this website but unfortunately it seems to many people are to quick to scream down anyone that doesn't agree with them. Instead of all of you whipping out your junk to see who is the biggest maybe you could all share different techniques/methods you use for staying hydrated, calculating water consumption, and lessons you have learned. Then individuals can read constructive posts and use these techniques to help themselves improve.

One thing that I haven't ever done is weigh myself after exercise to check my fluid consumption. I do think this is a good idea which I plan on implementing not only in cycling but also other activities. If more things like this were shared on this forum I think this would be a much more useful tool for all of us.
 
bighead_9901 said:
<snip>
One thing that I haven't ever done is weigh myself after exercise to check my fluid consumption. I do think this is a good idea which I plan on implementing not only in cycling but also other activities. If more things like this were shared on this forum I think this would be a much more useful tool for all of us.
I think the weighing is a great judge on what you just did. But it only tells you the past, and can only help you in the future, the rest is shall we say water under the dam (intentionally miss stated).

I wrestled for many years and had to carefully monitor my weight. I was not as bad as most but I learned a lot about water weight.

When I got back into cycling a few years ago I did not care if I lost a KG or two after a ride. I felt fine and thought, I am loosing weight yeah. I would then quickly gain it back. I then decided that was silly and I may as well drink more while I ride and enjoy it. Now I sip regularly and unless I do something stupid, like pass the last water hole without toping off (as mentioned earlier) I feel much better than I did in the past and do not need to change my normal drinking patern the rest of the day/evening.

There are other biological checks you can easily do for a gauge. You just need to pay attention.

I found until I started logging ride data it was a shot in the dark. Now estimating the amount of water I anticipate needing is easy. I adjusted many times to find what works best for me. I used the same principles I used in scuba diving. And like diving, I like to have water in reserve similar to air is reserve. One liter of water only weighs 1kg.
 
vadiver said:
I think the weighing is a great judge on what you just did. But it only tells you the past, and can only help you in the future, the rest is shall we say water under the dam (intentionally miss stated).

I wrestled for many years and had to carefully monitor my weight. I was not as bad as most but I learned a lot about water weight.

When I got back into cycling a few years ago I did not care if I lost a KG or two after a ride. I felt fine and thought, I am loosing weight yeah. I would then quickly gain it back. I then decided that was silly and I may as well drink more while I ride and enjoy it. Now I sip regularly and unless I do something stupid, like pass the last water hole without toping off (as mentioned earlier) I feel much better than I did in the past and do not need to change my normal drinking patern the rest of the day/evening.

There are other biological checks you can easily do for a gauge. You just need to pay attention.

I found until I started logging ride data it was a shot in the dark. Now estimating the amount of water I anticipate needing is easy. I adjusted many times to find what works best for me. I used the same principles I used in scuba diving. And like diving, I like to have water in reserve similar to air is reserve. One liter of water only weighs 1kg.

+1. Calibrating yourself for water use is not difficult at all.
 
vadiver said:
There are other biological checks you can easily do for a gauge. You just need to pay attention.
I agree with you that there are a lot of different weighs to check your fluid level during an activity. I also believe that most people can develop the ability to recongnize cues from their body as far as hydration.

I think that weighing sounds like a great method for someone to check whether their method of hydration is working.

I gave it a try this morning after my ride and found that I had gained 1/2 a pound.:eek:
 
bighead_9901 said:
I gave it a try this morning after my ride and found that I had gained 1/2 a pound.:eek:
IMHO (based on my weight) thats pretty good.

Thats about 250ml of water. How much did you drink after your ride and before you weighed yourself?
 
I weighed myself before I left on the ride then I immediately weighed myself after returning. I didn't drink any additional water after my ride until I weighed myself so that extra is from consumption during the ride.

These seemed about right to me because I know I tend to drink a lot. I do this because I also wrestled in high school and college and during high school I had the wonderful opportunity to experience Heat Stroke up close and personal. I was told that my core temp was 104.6 when I arrived at the hospital. It is always fun to wake up and find yourself naked and packed in ice. Anyway after that I have always been extremely careful to ensure I'm well hydrated before I start an activity and that I drink frequently and often during it.

That is actually one tip that I would definately share with folks is make sure you are hydrated before you start your ride. You never want to start with a deficate.
 
bighead_9901 said:
That is actually one tip that I would definately share with folks is make sure you are hydrated before you start your ride. You never want to start with a deficate.

Actually a good defication (i.e., a good sh*t) is a great thing to do before a ride.:D It's also good not to start a ride with a hydration deficit. The point is good, especially before events wear hydration could be a concern: being well hydrated in the days leading up to the event is essential.
 
6 pages about Camelbaks, I knew there was an argument happening.

I only ever use a camelbak mountainbiking, as its alot easier to keep in your mouth through technical singletrack than a bottle. A bottle costs you speed. I can see benefit on the road, but I'll stick to bottles.

Oh, yeah, a good sh*t is a great thing to do before a ride.
 

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