That, frankly, is stupid. People are generally quite conservative when it comes to big changes, and switching from chain-drive to hydraulic drive would definitely be a big one. So selling people a huge new idea is hard enough even if you're slick, well-funded and likeable, and you're trying to do it while being abusive, that's a seriously bad move.Mehrdad Wieske said:To my Tone,.......I do not care, what people think !
You're setting yourself up for failure by setting people up to ignore your idea because the way you're treating them.
So you want a bike as maintenance free as a pair of skis-
1) they already exist. The single-speeds with coaster brakes that was all I rode until I was 15 never saw any other maintenance than flat fixing and the yearly oiling of the chain and saddle adjustment.
2) rental skis aren't mainteance free. Between each customer they get waxed and the edges checked over. Between every 5-10 customer they get the edges honed. At least once every season they get planed, floated and scratches seen to.
3) it's an unfair comparison. The ski itself is a purely passive piece of equipment, all its environmental interaction is dictated by its inherent materials properties. The ski binding as compared to the bike is ridiculously simple. It has no rotating parts, almost no seals and a very simple task - clamp down and release. Basically they consist of a set of springs, hinges and a few cams.
dabac said:Production costs - an ordinary drive train has quite few high precision components, apart from the bearings and freewheel/freehub clutch the rest can be pretty much stamped out from sheet metal. I suppose you'd need far more precision engineering in a hydraulic system.
Mehrdad Wieske said:This is the difference, I am not talking about ordinary anything.......where have bin Disc Brakes for Bikes 10 -20 years- 30 -40 years ago ? Now days I am not gona hit the trails without!
But for there to be a market there has to be a demand. Brakes were easy to develop and sell because there were so many obvious shortcomings in the earlier systems. Drum brakes - overheated at long descents, rim brakes - poor performance in wet, wore the rims out, needed reasonably true wheels. Current drive systems WORKS, so you're facing a far tougher sell.
Apart from the bits about chains you don't know any of this. Switching to hydraulic is not a guarantee against things breaking, or wearing out, or ending up at a low weight. To make things rugged and reliable you need careful design and wide margins. To make things light designers tend to skimp on the margins, use lighter materials and more complicated production processes. A requirement for light weight is very often in direct conflict with a requirement for ruggedness and durability.Mehrdad Wieske said:I blieve, Gears (Gearbox) are passed, Hydlaulic gears are light and don't brake, no warring out, no Chain SUCK, no Dirty Chains...broken gears, brocken chains etc. resulting broken Colar bones and no fun!
Besides, how many accidents are caused by equipment failures as compared to those caused by user error?
dabac said:Seals/ bearings/losses
On a bike seals for the rotating parts are fairly basic, which is OK since they only have to be splash proof. For a hydraulic design they would have to deal with both rotation AND pressure, which in all probability would make them drag more.
Mehrdad Wieske said:have you ever had a "Rolof Gearhub" in your hands ? Turn that B..ch.this is not sealed...this is braked. People still love that ****! And the Hub is far from perfect
But the rohloff is aimed at a very specific market segment - those who want a low-maintenance (commuter/touring) bike with a decent span of gear ratios. They know the tradeoff and accepts it.
The rest of the bike-riding population prefers the tradeoff between higher performance and a certain amount of maintenance instead.
Mehrdad Wieske said:I am only comparing the two activities (not the equipments), sommer and winter time ski-slope bikking becomming more and more popular the only missing link to get that really masively going is a mainanence free rentable begginer friendly "RENTAL-BIKES
Ah, so you're not looking for a replacement for the average bike, you're looking for a special rental bike version. That's a quite different proposition.
OK, you have a complete rookie who wants to start riding bikes downhill, do you really think the drive train design will be his biggest difficulty? How would the hydra-drive help him? It can't tell him to shift his weight rearwards before applying the brakes, the difference between a firm and a panicky grip on the bars, or when to bail out or when to ride it through.
Something that does seem to cause rookies some trouble is switching gears, particularly if they have a triple front together with a 7-9 rear. But a way around that which would require far less engineering would be to use electronic servo-shifting systems. You could have a two-button user interface and the bike would keep track of cross-chaining and all that. Heck, stick a cadence counter in there and you'd have an auto shifter.
Or is it just meant to help the guys in the rental shed? They're not concerned with maintenance as such, their concerns are payoff time, the MTTR (Mean Time To Repair) and average repair cost. If your design is 50% more expensive it has to make up for that somehow. Either by breaking down less often , or by being faster to repair. Cheaper to repair would be nice too, but I think that it would be hard to beat the current systems.
Mehrdad Wieske said:Hydraulic drive is DA Solution, Man ! Don't you think!
Not really. If you're thinking of summertime ski-slope biking I assume most will take the lifts/cable cars uphill, and then do some light DH-ing back down. That reduces the span of gear ratios required considerably. I think a bike with a rohloff/nexus hub (perhaps with a beefed up axle, or a tandem version?), disc brakes and a fully enclosed chain guard would do just fine for that purpose.
If mud is a serious issue internally geared hubs could be combined with shaft drive for a "completely" sealed drive train.
I think a more probable customer segment for a hydra drive bike is a tourer who is looking for the ultimate durability from his bike even if it comes at a cost.