Hypothetical clean Tour de France

Discussion in 'Professional Cycling' started by thunder, Aug 25, 2007.

  1. thunder

    thunder New Member

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    What would happen in a clean Tour de France, which riders would be on the podium? And top 10?

    Moncoutie finished 13th? in 2002, or the year before. To me that is the highest clean finish in the EPO and blood doping era.

    Casar finished 5th in last years Giro.

    Mcgee finished 7th in the 2004 Giro with only one short timetrial. And a bad time penalty. He aslo has animated a few Tour de Suisse GCs and was a little luck off from finishing on the podium.

    It is difficult to know what Armstrong, Ullrich, Basso et al would do, without their insulin and recovery drugs. Do they have three week physiologies?

    All those guys were doping from the start of their careers, and in the espoirs, so you do not have a baseline to extrapolate their ability.

    Hamilton, and Leipheimer, would be nowhere near the top of the general classification, as you do not suddenly morph into a GC rider in your thirties through a critical mass of dope coarsing through your veins.

    Rasmussen has no class as a rider without that dope.

    Actually, I do not rate Evans as a rider atm, but I think, if it was clean, he would be very high, if not the class of the peloton. He is definitely doping like the rest. I just do not think he is as stupid as Rasmussen in attempting to kill himself like Tommy Simpson.

    I think Brajkovic would be a great rider, but he is doping no doubt. He has the physiology, and the ability to tt. But gotta question his 92 or 93 VO2max because who knows if he was tested when he was clean in the lab.

    I don't think Andy Schleck would be brilliant, because he has not been there in the espoirs, as dominant, until he got on a CSC doping program.

    Robert Gesink, I think he is class. But his class now is doping class.

    I think Brochard was an Armstrong like talent, perhaps a better sprinter. He could have been anything if he had the same commitment and on Ferrari's program.

    Contador looks class, won the jnr or espoir national tt in Spain before Saiz signed him up and got him on the doping program. So he would be like Brajkovic, just class.

    Evans was 3rd in the world road tt as a mtber, so if he was 100% road as a jnr, he might have been there.

    Klodi is class, won the jnr world tt. But came from the GDR system. Probably not alot separating him from Evans.

    If they want to dope, they really should make the queen stage about the par for the course, for all 5 mtn stages, and make the queen stage, like 4 HC mtn passes. As it is, it is a joke, 15 ot 20 riders on the bottom of the final climb in the queen stage, never happened 20 years ago. Ofcourse, the sport was going to develop, and the talent base expand.

    But, in the words of Mark Scanlon

    "when you see mules riding like racehorses, you know it is a joke!"
     
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  2. Gregers

    Gregers New Member

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    An outstanding and realistic analysis that shows how difficult it is to speculate about who is really the 'best' rider. For all we know, talented espoirs like Bassons (VO2 of 85 against 83 for LA) might have been major stars if they had played the game. And that's the tragedy, we can never know.
    You've probably got it right with most of your names but we are all just guessing about the extent of their preparation. Maybe we are all blinded by our own prejudices and some of the good guys we place on a higher pedestal are just as dirty. I just don't know. I leave banal, moral certainties to the likes of No Positives-all the rest is up in the air.
     
  3. wolfix

    wolfix New Member

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    No one knows who dopes. The domestiques dope as heavy as the podium riders. Remember , it is not the podium riders that do all the work all day. Plus , the water carriers do not get tested daily.
     
  4. Hein-Verbruggen

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    Wolf--you said yourself that they ALL dope--heck, even the LAF board has dopers.

    Back on topic:
    Without doping, Bradley McGee (assuming his back pain can be managed w/o corticoids) would win the TDF by 15+ minutes. But the average speed would plummet from 46 kph to 32 kph over the 21 stages.

    McGee even finished top ten in the Giro and has superior power to any top ten TDF winner of the past 20 years.

    Australia would finally win a Tour if cow blood were not in play.
     
  5. juan samaranch

    juan samaranch New Member

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    Hein , you cheating, slimeball.Don't forget that you still owe me money for setting you up in that nice little job. And I shall be wanting my cut from the TV revenues or I will be sending round some of my old Fascist chums to have a little word with you. Geddit. And while we're at it, why are you still pretending to be interested in that cycling rubbish? You don't need to impress anybody with that kind of claptrap anymore. Capisce.


     
  6. azdroptop

    azdroptop New Member

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    With out dope I'm not sure the riders could finish the entire race in a decent time...
     
  7. babylou

    babylou New Member

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    The race used to be 1000 k further and had one less rest day and the riders managed to finish in a decent time.
     
  8. Hein-Verbruggen

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    Yeah---with occasional train hopping, massive mth amphetamine, strychnine and heroin products.
     
  9. azdroptop

    azdroptop New Member

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    well a decent time is relative I guess. I'm thinking they used what ever drugs were available back 'then' as well.
     
  10. Gregers

    Gregers New Member

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    Hein, 32kph was the kind of speed they were doing in the late 40's. Riding 25lb steel bikes, carrying their own tyres and with poor nutrition, hydration and backup, they didn't have a lot going for them in comparison to today's pampered pros. I think improvements in these factors alone would have nudged up average speeds a few kph.
    Of course, if you'd have been a bit more vigilant and a bit less venal when you were in charge, average speeds might now be significantly less than the unreal level that they have reached. BTW, Good luck with your ethical work at the IOC. I'm sure you are the right man to bury bad news.
     
  11. Hein-Verbruggen

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    So long as Armstrong & Nike keep up their monthly annuity (bribery) wire transfers, they are Golden with me.

    Peace


     
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