I blew a red light



D

Duncan

Guest
Ok,

this morning I blew a red light.

I did wait for it to go through two complete cycles without giving me a
green, though.. and then went on a stage when I would've got a green
arrow turning left (if there was one installed).

This light is on a major cycle route into Sydney, and it doesn't
recognise me when I stop on the loop; who do I nag to get this sort of
stuff fixed? RTA?
 
D

DaveB

Guest
Duncan wrote:
> Ok,
>
> this morning I blew a red light.
>
> I did wait for it to go through two complete cycles without giving me a
> green, though.. and then went on a stage when I would've got a green
> arrow turning left (if there was one installed).
>
> This light is on a major cycle route into Sydney, and it doesn't
> recognise me when I stop on the loop; who do I nag to get this sort of
> stuff fixed? RTA?
>


What type of frame have you got. I have always had probs with my old alu
frame but not with steel MTB or my OCR2 (whatever that is amde of).

DaveB
 
G

Graeme Dods

Guest
Duncan wrote:

> This light is on a major cycle route into Sydney, and it doesn't
> recognise me when I stop on the loop; who do I nag to get this sort of
> stuff fixed? RTA?


Until it does get fixed (ha!) you can try the trick of laying your bike
on the road over the loop.

Graeme
 
B

Bleve

Guest
Duncan wrote:
> Ok,
>
> this morning I blew a red light.
>
> I did wait for it to go through two complete cycles without giving me a
> green, though.. and then went on a stage when I would've got a green
> arrow turning left (if there was one installed).
>
> This light is on a major cycle route into Sydney, and it doesn't
> recognise me when I stop on the loop; who do I nag to get this sort of
> stuff fixed? RTA?


Many traffic lights will have a big box near them, with a phone number
listed on the box, and an ID number. Call the number, quote the code.
If that doesn't exist (?!) then call the RTA.
 
D

Duncan

Guest
DaveB wrote:
> What type of frame have you got. I have always had probs with my old alu
> frame but not with steel MTB or my OCR2 (whatever that is amde of).


I suspect this is the problem... the frame's an old giant CFR (carbon
w/ Al lugs); I guess the BB, spokes & pedals just aren't enough mass of
ferrous to detect.
 
T

TimC

Guest
On 2006-09-04, Duncan (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
>
> DaveB wrote:
>> What type of frame have you got. I have always had probs with my old alu
>> frame but not with steel MTB or my OCR2 (whatever that is amde of).

>
> I suspect this is the problem... the frame's an old giant CFR (carbon
> w/ Al lugs); I guess the BB, spokes & pedals just aren't enough mass of
> ferrous to detect.


Does it have to be ferric? Carbon fibre would be conductive, no?

--
TimC
"How should I know if it works? That's what beta testers are for. I only
coded it." (Attributed to Linus Torvalds, somewhere in a posting)
 
D

DeF

Guest
TimC wrote:
> On 2006-09-04, Duncan (aka Bruce)
> was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
>
>>DaveB wrote:
>>
>>>What type of frame have you got. I have always had probs with my old alu
>>>frame but not with steel MTB or my OCR2 (whatever that is amde of).

>>
>>I suspect this is the problem... the frame's an old giant CFR (carbon
>>w/ Al lugs); I guess the BB, spokes & pedals just aren't enough mass of
>>ferrous to detect.

>
>
> Does it have to be ferric? Carbon fibre would be conductive, no?
>


Carbon fibre is not conductive. Adherrants of traditional frame
materials often dismiss CF bikes as "plastic bikes".

I have the same problem at a particular intersection on one of my
rides. Steely trips it no problems but the plastic bike does not.
I have been known to be a ******** at this intersection so my sympathy
is with the OP.

DeF.


--
e-mail: [email protected] finger.murdoch.edu.au
To reply, you'll have to remove your finger.
 
G

gumby

Guest
DeF wrote:
> TimC wrote:
> > On 2006-09-04, Duncan (aka Bruce)
> > was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> >
> >>DaveB wrote:
> >>
> >>>What type of frame have you got. I have always had probs with my old alu
> >>>frame but not with steel MTB or my OCR2 (whatever that is amde of).
> >>
> >>I suspect this is the problem... the frame's an old giant CFR (carbon
> >>w/ Al lugs); I guess the BB, spokes & pedals just aren't enough mass of
> >>ferrous to detect.

> >
> >
> > Does it have to be ferric? Carbon fibre would be conductive, no?
> >

>
> Carbon fibre is not conductive. Adherrants of traditional frame
> materials often dismiss CF bikes as "plastic bikes".
>
> I have the same problem at a particular intersection on one of my
> rides. Steely trips it no problems but the plastic bike does not.
> I have been known to be a ******** at this intersection so my sympathy
> is with the OP.
>
> DeF.
>
>
> --
> e-mail: [email protected] finger.murdoch.edu.au
> To reply, you'll have to remove your finger.


Glue a rare earth magnet to your riding shoe, that should trip it.
 
A

Artoi

Guest
In article <[email protected]>,
"Graeme Dods" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Duncan wrote:
>
> > This light is on a major cycle route into Sydney, and it doesn't
> > recognise me when I stop on the loop; who do I nag to get this sort of
> > stuff fixed? RTA?

>
> Until it does get fixed (ha!) you can try the trick of laying your bike
> on the road over the loop.


I had to do that when I leaned on the side of my clipless that is still
clipped in... The light did turn green a short while later. ;)
--
 
G

Gemma_k

Guest
"Duncan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> DaveB wrote:
> > What type of frame have you got. I have always had probs with my old alu
> > frame but not with steel MTB or my OCR2 (whatever that is amde of).

>
> I suspect this is the problem... the frame's an old giant CFR (carbon
> w/ Al lugs); I guess the BB, spokes & pedals just aren't enough mass of
> ferrous to detect.
>

*sigh*
Trust me, it will only detect your wheels..... won't matter what frame you
have. If it won't detect your aluminium or steel rims, it ain't working
properly. If you are riding around of carbon Campy Boras or Zipps, you
won't be detected, they are a conductor but are actually 'lossy' and confuse
the loop.
I don't know if your loops are the same as SA's but you have to be in the
middle, on the double section of the loop. ie standing in the oil patch.
Look, here's one prepared earlier:
http://www.transport.sa.gov.au/safety/road/road_use/cyclists_and_traffic_signals.asp
 

cogcontrol

New Member
Dec 12, 2004
43
0
0
Duncan said:
Ok,

this morning I blew a red light.

I did wait for it to go through two complete cycles without giving me a
green, though.. and then went on a stage when I would've got a green
arrow turning left (if there was one installed).

This light is on a major cycle route into Sydney, and it doesn't
recognise me when I stop on the loop; who do I nag to get this sort of
stuff fixed? RTA?
There's one light that doesnt work for me on a regular basis despite a steel frame. I ring the number on the control box on a regular basis too and put in a complaint that my 'vehicle' doesnt trip the lights. I dont really expect them to fix it but at least if I get booked I have a litany of complaints about the faulty light recorded in my defense.

CC
 
D

Duncan

Guest
Gemma_k wrote:
> Trust me, it will only detect your wheels..... won't matter what frame you
> have. If it won't detect your aluminium or steel rims, it ain't working
> properly. If you are riding around of carbon Campy Boras or Zipps, you
> won't be detected, they are a conductor but are actually 'lossy' and confuse
> the loop.


That makes sense... I was thinking that because they're an inductive
loop, the detected material needs to be magnetic.. but you are correct:
it only needs to conduct.

Still.. a steel or Al frame surely has some effect cf. the rims. The
loops here are large compared with vertical spacing. Sadly, no
bike-sized loops on this bit of road.
 
T

Travis

Guest
TimC wrote:
> On 2006-09-04, Duncan (aka Bruce)
> was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> >
> > DaveB wrote:
> >> What type of frame have you got. I have always had probs with my old alu
> >> frame but not with steel MTB or my OCR2 (whatever that is amde of).

> >
> > I suspect this is the problem... the frame's an old giant CFR (carbon
> > w/ Al lugs); I guess the BB, spokes & pedals just aren't enough mass of
> > ferrous to detect.

>
> Does it have to be ferric? Carbon fibre would be conductive, no?


The main roads guy in Perth that responded to my complaint about an
insufficiently sensitive traffic light sensor asked if I had a carbon
bike, saying carbon wasn't detectable by the magnetic sensors.

At any rate, carbon fibre composite is as much plastic binder as carbon
fibres.

Travis
 
G

Gemma_k

Guest
"Duncan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> Gemma_k wrote:
> > Trust me, it will only detect your wheels..... won't matter what frame

you
> > have. If it won't detect your aluminium or steel rims, it ain't working
> > properly. If you are riding around of carbon Campy Boras or Zipps, you
> > won't be detected, they are a conductor but are actually 'lossy' and

confuse
> > the loop.

>
> That makes sense... I was thinking that because they're an inductive
> loop, the detected material needs to be magnetic.. but you are correct:
> it only needs to conduct.


I know I'm correct, I work for the people who play with the loops :p
I also play with the loops for my own amusement. I ride about on zipps, and
I know even with an Al frame, I dont' get detected. ;-) I have to lay the
frame down a bit to get the lights to trigger.

> Still.. a steel or Al frame surely has some effect cf. the rims. The
> loops here are large compared with vertical spacing. Sadly, no
> bike-sized loops on this bit of road.
>

You need to park yer bike's rims as close to the wire as possible (look for
the saw cut). The further away from the wire you are the less chance you'll
be detected. So if it's a box detector instead of a figure 8, and you're in
the dead middle of it you're unlikely to be detected.

The loops here are set to detect bikes. If they're not detecting bikes in
your state, report them. Unfortunately, you can't set them really really
sensitive, or the bus in the next lane will trigger then and bugger up the
system.
Also remember that if you're on a minor side road, sometimes the phasing is
set to skip your turn (even if you have been detected).
And, just being detected and then moving off the loop to the side of the
road won't help either. You have to stay on the loop, or else it cancels
the call. It's not like a pedestrian push botton, you have to actually
still be there for the lights to chage (I wish that was the case, that Peds
had to hold the button down to get a turn ;-) Less push'n'runs then :)
haha
Gemm
 
T

TimC

Guest
On 2006-09-04, Gemma_k (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
>
> "Duncan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>> That makes sense... I was thinking that because they're an inductive
>> loop, the detected material needs to be magnetic.. but you are correct:
>> it only needs to conduct.

>
> I know I'm correct, I work for the people who play with the loops :p
> I also play with the loops for my own amusement. I ride about on zipps, and
> I know even with an Al frame, I dont' get detected. ;-) I have to lay the
> frame down a bit to get the lights to trigger.


Wouldn't some kind of strain gauge be more reliable?

Or just a button that you could wheel your bike over :)

> Also remember that if you're on a minor side road, sometimes the phasing is
> set to skip your turn (even if you have been detected).
> And, just being detected and then moving off the loop to the side of the
> road won't help either. You have to stay on the loop, or else it cancels
> the call.


Assuming that the person waiting has run the red?

--
TimC
In the beginning, there was nothing, which exploded.
-- Terry Pratchett, Lords and Ladies
 
B

BrettS

Guest
Travis wrote:

> TimC wrote:
>
>>On 2006-09-04, Duncan (aka Bruce)
>> was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
>>
>>>DaveB wrote:
>>>
>>>>What type of frame have you got. I have always had probs with my old alu
>>>>frame but not with steel MTB or my OCR2 (whatever that is amde of).
>>>
>>>I suspect this is the problem... the frame's an old giant CFR (carbon
>>>w/ Al lugs); I guess the BB, spokes & pedals just aren't enough mass of
>>>ferrous to detect.

>>
>>Does it have to be ferric? Carbon fibre would be conductive, no?

>
>
> The main roads guy in Perth that responded to my complaint about an
> insufficiently sensitive traffic light sensor asked if I had a carbon
> bike, saying carbon wasn't detectable by the magnetic sensors.
>
> At any rate, carbon fibre composite is as much plastic binder as carbon
> fibres.
>


So, did he say what riders of carbon fibre bikes are supposed to do?

--
BrettS
 
B

BrettS

Guest
TimC wrote:

> On 2006-09-04, Gemma_k (aka Bruce)
> was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
>>Also remember that if you're on a minor side road, sometimes the phasing is
>>set to skip your turn (even if you have been detected).
>>And, just being detected and then moving off the loop to the side of the
>>road won't help either. You have to stay on the loop, or else it cancels
>>the call.

>
> Assuming that the person waiting has run the red?


Not necessarily. They may have either:
1. Run the red (illegal)
2. Backed up and changed lanes (legal)
3. Gone straight ahead from the turn lane instead of turning (illegal)
4. Turned right while the red arrow was off, without having to wait for
a green arrow. (legal)

Though they probably blew the red...

--
BrettS
 
Gemma_k wrote:
> "Duncan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> >
> > DaveB wrote:
> > > What type of frame have you got. I have always had probs with my old alu
> > > frame but not with steel MTB or my OCR2 (whatever that is amde of).

> >
> > I suspect this is the problem... the frame's an old giant CFR (carbon
> > w/ Al lugs); I guess the BB, spokes & pedals just aren't enough mass of
> > ferrous to detect.
> >

> *sigh*
> Trust me, it will only detect your wheels..... won't matter what frame you
> have. If it won't detect your aluminium or steel rims, it ain't working
> properly. If you are riding around of carbon Campy Boras or Zipps, you
> won't be detected, they are a conductor but are actually 'lossy' and confuse
> the loop.
> I don't know if your loops are the same as SA's but you have to be in the
> middle, on the double section of the loop. ie standing in the oil patch.
> Look, here's one prepared earlier:
> http://www.transport.sa.gov.au/safety/road/road_use/cyclists_and_traffic_signals.asp


The loop at the exit to the garage at work requires me either to ride
along the edge of the (square) loop or if the direction of ttravel is
perpendicular WRT the loop wires, stop on the loop and twitch the
handlebars to make it react[1]. Can you identify where the sensor is?

best wishes
james

[1] Alu rims, alu frame
 
T

Travis

Guest
BrettS wrote:

> So, did he say what riders of carbon fibre bikes are supposed to do?


Get a steel bike.

Travis
 

HughMann

New Member
Jun 22, 2004
285
0
0
SNIP
I know I'm correct, I work for the people who play with the loops :p I also play with the loops for my own amusement. I ride about on zipps, and I know even with an Al frame, I dont' get detected. ;-) I have to lay the
frame down a bit to get the lights to trigger.

In Townsville QLD it makes no diff weather I am on the steel SS or the alloy roadie. Consistently not detected by certain loops. Proly 95%+ work fine for both bikes.

You need to park yer bike's rims as close to the wire as possible (look for the saw cut). The further away from the wire you are the less chance you'll be detected. So if it's a box detector instead of a figure 8, and you're in the dead middle of it you're unlikely to be detected.

Yes thats what I was told by Roads Dept. Look for the loop and ride up into the loop, within about 100mm of a side wire and stop in the middle front of the loop. Sometimes they are hard to see.

AFIK the loops work on resonance and not magnetic/metal detecting. An object in the loop should be detected it just needs mass. Aparently a sack of spuds in the loop should be detected.

The loops here are set to detect bikes. If they're not detecting bikes in your state, report them. Unfortunately, you can't set them really really sensitive, or the bus in the next lane will trigger then and bugger up the system.
Also remember that if you're on a minor side road, sometimes the phasing is set to skip your turn (even if you have been detected). And, just being detected and then moving off the loop to the side of the road won't help either. You have to stay on the loop, or else it cancels
the call.

It's not like a pedestrian push botton, you have to actually still be there for the lights to chage (I wish that was the case, that Peds had to hold the button down to get a turn ;-) Less push'n'runs then :)


haha
Gemm

Dont you hate the Push n run peds, they dont even bother to run here, just saunter off. Bad around the city in the early morning with the drunks walking home from the clubs. At least there walking, not driving.
Should change the timing so that where possible lights change instantly. That will spoil the game.

Its a "moral dilema", to blow a red when you see some goose "push n run" and there is no traffic anywhere or do you hang around at the red for nix and you become the goose?

Cheers
Hugh