I blew a red light

Discussion in 'Australia and New Zealand' started by Duncan, Sep 3, 2006.

  1. Duncan

    Duncan Guest

    Ok,

    this morning I blew a red light.

    I did wait for it to go through two complete cycles without giving me a
    green, though.. and then went on a stage when I would've got a green
    arrow turning left (if there was one installed).

    This light is on a major cycle route into Sydney, and it doesn't
    recognise me when I stop on the loop; who do I nag to get this sort of
    stuff fixed? RTA?
     
    Tags:


  2. DaveB

    DaveB Guest

    Duncan wrote:
    > Ok,
    >
    > this morning I blew a red light.
    >
    > I did wait for it to go through two complete cycles without giving me a
    > green, though.. and then went on a stage when I would've got a green
    > arrow turning left (if there was one installed).
    >
    > This light is on a major cycle route into Sydney, and it doesn't
    > recognise me when I stop on the loop; who do I nag to get this sort of
    > stuff fixed? RTA?
    >


    What type of frame have you got. I have always had probs with my old alu
    frame but not with steel MTB or my OCR2 (whatever that is amde of).

    DaveB
     
  3. Graeme Dods

    Graeme Dods Guest

    Duncan wrote:

    > This light is on a major cycle route into Sydney, and it doesn't
    > recognise me when I stop on the loop; who do I nag to get this sort of
    > stuff fixed? RTA?


    Until it does get fixed (ha!) you can try the trick of laying your bike
    on the road over the loop.

    Graeme
     
  4. Bleve

    Bleve Guest

    Duncan wrote:
    > Ok,
    >
    > this morning I blew a red light.
    >
    > I did wait for it to go through two complete cycles without giving me a
    > green, though.. and then went on a stage when I would've got a green
    > arrow turning left (if there was one installed).
    >
    > This light is on a major cycle route into Sydney, and it doesn't
    > recognise me when I stop on the loop; who do I nag to get this sort of
    > stuff fixed? RTA?


    Many traffic lights will have a big box near them, with a phone number
    listed on the box, and an ID number. Call the number, quote the code.
    If that doesn't exist (?!) then call the RTA.
     
  5. Duncan

    Duncan Guest

    DaveB wrote:
    > What type of frame have you got. I have always had probs with my old alu
    > frame but not with steel MTB or my OCR2 (whatever that is amde of).


    I suspect this is the problem... the frame's an old giant CFR (carbon
    w/ Al lugs); I guess the BB, spokes & pedals just aren't enough mass of
    ferrous to detect.
     
  6. TimC

    TimC Guest

    On 2006-09-04, Duncan (aka Bruce)
    was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
    >
    > DaveB wrote:
    >> What type of frame have you got. I have always had probs with my old alu
    >> frame but not with steel MTB or my OCR2 (whatever that is amde of).

    >
    > I suspect this is the problem... the frame's an old giant CFR (carbon
    > w/ Al lugs); I guess the BB, spokes & pedals just aren't enough mass of
    > ferrous to detect.


    Does it have to be ferric? Carbon fibre would be conductive, no?

    --
    TimC
    "How should I know if it works? That's what beta testers are for. I only
    coded it." (Attributed to Linus Torvalds, somewhere in a posting)
     
  7. DeF

    DeF Guest

    TimC wrote:
    > On 2006-09-04, Duncan (aka Bruce)
    > was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
    >
    >>DaveB wrote:
    >>
    >>>What type of frame have you got. I have always had probs with my old alu
    >>>frame but not with steel MTB or my OCR2 (whatever that is amde of).

    >>
    >>I suspect this is the problem... the frame's an old giant CFR (carbon
    >>w/ Al lugs); I guess the BB, spokes & pedals just aren't enough mass of
    >>ferrous to detect.

    >
    >
    > Does it have to be ferric? Carbon fibre would be conductive, no?
    >


    Carbon fibre is not conductive. Adherrants of traditional frame
    materials often dismiss CF bikes as "plastic bikes".

    I have the same problem at a particular intersection on one of my
    rides. Steely trips it no problems but the plastic bike does not.
    I have been known to be a dickhead at this intersection so my sympathy
    is with the OP.

    DeF.


    --
    e-mail: [email protected] finger.murdoch.edu.au
    To reply, you'll have to remove your finger.
     
  8. gumby

    gumby Guest

    DeF wrote:
    > TimC wrote:
    > > On 2006-09-04, Duncan (aka Bruce)
    > > was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
    > >
    > >>DaveB wrote:
    > >>
    > >>>What type of frame have you got. I have always had probs with my old alu
    > >>>frame but not with steel MTB or my OCR2 (whatever that is amde of).
    > >>
    > >>I suspect this is the problem... the frame's an old giant CFR (carbon
    > >>w/ Al lugs); I guess the BB, spokes & pedals just aren't enough mass of
    > >>ferrous to detect.

    > >
    > >
    > > Does it have to be ferric? Carbon fibre would be conductive, no?
    > >

    >
    > Carbon fibre is not conductive. Adherrants of traditional frame
    > materials often dismiss CF bikes as "plastic bikes".
    >
    > I have the same problem at a particular intersection on one of my
    > rides. Steely trips it no problems but the plastic bike does not.
    > I have been known to be a dickhead at this intersection so my sympathy
    > is with the OP.
    >
    > DeF.
    >
    >
    > --
    > e-mail: [email protected] finger.murdoch.edu.au
    > To reply, you'll have to remove your finger.


    Glue a rare earth magnet to your riding shoe, that should trip it.
     
  9. Artoi

    Artoi Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    "Graeme Dods" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Duncan wrote:
    >
    > > This light is on a major cycle route into Sydney, and it doesn't
    > > recognise me when I stop on the loop; who do I nag to get this sort of
    > > stuff fixed? RTA?

    >
    > Until it does get fixed (ha!) you can try the trick of laying your bike
    > on the road over the loop.


    I had to do that when I leaned on the side of my clipless that is still
    clipped in... The light did turn green a short while later. ;)
    --
     
  10. Gemma_k

    Gemma_k Guest

    "Duncan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > DaveB wrote:
    > > What type of frame have you got. I have always had probs with my old alu
    > > frame but not with steel MTB or my OCR2 (whatever that is amde of).

    >
    > I suspect this is the problem... the frame's an old giant CFR (carbon
    > w/ Al lugs); I guess the BB, spokes & pedals just aren't enough mass of
    > ferrous to detect.
    >

    *sigh*
    Trust me, it will only detect your wheels..... won't matter what frame you
    have. If it won't detect your aluminium or steel rims, it ain't working
    properly. If you are riding around of carbon Campy Boras or Zipps, you
    won't be detected, they are a conductor but are actually 'lossy' and confuse
    the loop.
    I don't know if your loops are the same as SA's but you have to be in the
    middle, on the double section of the loop. ie standing in the oil patch.
    Look, here's one prepared earlier:
    http://www.transport.sa.gov.au/safety/road/road_use/cyclists_and_traffic_signals.asp
     
  11. cogcontrol

    cogcontrol New Member

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    There's one light that doesnt work for me on a regular basis despite a steel frame. I ring the number on the control box on a regular basis too and put in a complaint that my 'vehicle' doesnt trip the lights. I dont really expect them to fix it but at least if I get booked I have a litany of complaints about the faulty light recorded in my defense.

    CC
     
  12. Duncan

    Duncan Guest

    Gemma_k wrote:
    > Trust me, it will only detect your wheels..... won't matter what frame you
    > have. If it won't detect your aluminium or steel rims, it ain't working
    > properly. If you are riding around of carbon Campy Boras or Zipps, you
    > won't be detected, they are a conductor but are actually 'lossy' and confuse
    > the loop.


    That makes sense... I was thinking that because they're an inductive
    loop, the detected material needs to be magnetic.. but you are correct:
    it only needs to conduct.

    Still.. a steel or Al frame surely has some effect cf. the rims. The
    loops here are large compared with vertical spacing. Sadly, no
    bike-sized loops on this bit of road.
     
  13. Travis

    Travis Guest

    TimC wrote:
    > On 2006-09-04, Duncan (aka Bruce)
    > was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
    > >
    > > DaveB wrote:
    > >> What type of frame have you got. I have always had probs with my old alu
    > >> frame but not with steel MTB or my OCR2 (whatever that is amde of).

    > >
    > > I suspect this is the problem... the frame's an old giant CFR (carbon
    > > w/ Al lugs); I guess the BB, spokes & pedals just aren't enough mass of
    > > ferrous to detect.

    >
    > Does it have to be ferric? Carbon fibre would be conductive, no?


    The main roads guy in Perth that responded to my complaint about an
    insufficiently sensitive traffic light sensor asked if I had a carbon
    bike, saying carbon wasn't detectable by the magnetic sensors.

    At any rate, carbon fibre composite is as much plastic binder as carbon
    fibres.

    Travis
     
  14. Gemma_k

    Gemma_k Guest

    "Duncan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > Gemma_k wrote:
    > > Trust me, it will only detect your wheels..... won't matter what frame

    you
    > > have. If it won't detect your aluminium or steel rims, it ain't working
    > > properly. If you are riding around of carbon Campy Boras or Zipps, you
    > > won't be detected, they are a conductor but are actually 'lossy' and

    confuse
    > > the loop.

    >
    > That makes sense... I was thinking that because they're an inductive
    > loop, the detected material needs to be magnetic.. but you are correct:
    > it only needs to conduct.


    I know I'm correct, I work for the people who play with the loops :p
    I also play with the loops for my own amusement. I ride about on zipps, and
    I know even with an Al frame, I dont' get detected. ;-) I have to lay the
    frame down a bit to get the lights to trigger.

    > Still.. a steel or Al frame surely has some effect cf. the rims. The
    > loops here are large compared with vertical spacing. Sadly, no
    > bike-sized loops on this bit of road.
    >

    You need to park yer bike's rims as close to the wire as possible (look for
    the saw cut). The further away from the wire you are the less chance you'll
    be detected. So if it's a box detector instead of a figure 8, and you're in
    the dead middle of it you're unlikely to be detected.

    The loops here are set to detect bikes. If they're not detecting bikes in
    your state, report them. Unfortunately, you can't set them really really
    sensitive, or the bus in the next lane will trigger then and bugger up the
    system.
    Also remember that if you're on a minor side road, sometimes the phasing is
    set to skip your turn (even if you have been detected).
    And, just being detected and then moving off the loop to the side of the
    road won't help either. You have to stay on the loop, or else it cancels
    the call. It's not like a pedestrian push botton, you have to actually
    still be there for the lights to chage (I wish that was the case, that Peds
    had to hold the button down to get a turn ;-) Less push'n'runs then :)
    haha
    Gemm
     
  15. TimC

    TimC Guest

    On 2006-09-04, Gemma_k (aka Bruce)
    was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
    >
    > "Duncan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >> That makes sense... I was thinking that because they're an inductive
    >> loop, the detected material needs to be magnetic.. but you are correct:
    >> it only needs to conduct.

    >
    > I know I'm correct, I work for the people who play with the loops :p
    > I also play with the loops for my own amusement. I ride about on zipps, and
    > I know even with an Al frame, I dont' get detected. ;-) I have to lay the
    > frame down a bit to get the lights to trigger.


    Wouldn't some kind of strain gauge be more reliable?

    Or just a button that you could wheel your bike over :)

    > Also remember that if you're on a minor side road, sometimes the phasing is
    > set to skip your turn (even if you have been detected).
    > And, just being detected and then moving off the loop to the side of the
    > road won't help either. You have to stay on the loop, or else it cancels
    > the call.


    Assuming that the person waiting has run the red?

    --
    TimC
    In the beginning, there was nothing, which exploded.
    -- Terry Pratchett, Lords and Ladies
     
  16. BrettS

    BrettS Guest

    Travis wrote:

    > TimC wrote:
    >
    >>On 2006-09-04, Duncan (aka Bruce)
    >> was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
    >>
    >>>DaveB wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>What type of frame have you got. I have always had probs with my old alu
    >>>>frame but not with steel MTB or my OCR2 (whatever that is amde of).
    >>>
    >>>I suspect this is the problem... the frame's an old giant CFR (carbon
    >>>w/ Al lugs); I guess the BB, spokes & pedals just aren't enough mass of
    >>>ferrous to detect.

    >>
    >>Does it have to be ferric? Carbon fibre would be conductive, no?

    >
    >
    > The main roads guy in Perth that responded to my complaint about an
    > insufficiently sensitive traffic light sensor asked if I had a carbon
    > bike, saying carbon wasn't detectable by the magnetic sensors.
    >
    > At any rate, carbon fibre composite is as much plastic binder as carbon
    > fibres.
    >


    So, did he say what riders of carbon fibre bikes are supposed to do?

    --
    BrettS
     
  17. BrettS

    BrettS Guest

    TimC wrote:

    > On 2006-09-04, Gemma_k (aka Bruce)
    > was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
    >>Also remember that if you're on a minor side road, sometimes the phasing is
    >>set to skip your turn (even if you have been detected).
    >>And, just being detected and then moving off the loop to the side of the
    >>road won't help either. You have to stay on the loop, or else it cancels
    >>the call.

    >
    > Assuming that the person waiting has run the red?


    Not necessarily. They may have either:
    1. Run the red (illegal)
    2. Backed up and changed lanes (legal)
    3. Gone straight ahead from the turn lane instead of turning (illegal)
    4. Turned right while the red arrow was off, without having to wait for
    a green arrow. (legal)

    Though they probably blew the red...

    --
    BrettS
     
  18. Gemma_k wrote:
    > "Duncan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > >
    > > DaveB wrote:
    > > > What type of frame have you got. I have always had probs with my old alu
    > > > frame but not with steel MTB or my OCR2 (whatever that is amde of).

    > >
    > > I suspect this is the problem... the frame's an old giant CFR (carbon
    > > w/ Al lugs); I guess the BB, spokes & pedals just aren't enough mass of
    > > ferrous to detect.
    > >

    > *sigh*
    > Trust me, it will only detect your wheels..... won't matter what frame you
    > have. If it won't detect your aluminium or steel rims, it ain't working
    > properly. If you are riding around of carbon Campy Boras or Zipps, you
    > won't be detected, they are a conductor but are actually 'lossy' and confuse
    > the loop.
    > I don't know if your loops are the same as SA's but you have to be in the
    > middle, on the double section of the loop. ie standing in the oil patch.
    > Look, here's one prepared earlier:
    > http://www.transport.sa.gov.au/safety/road/road_use/cyclists_and_traffic_signals.asp


    The loop at the exit to the garage at work requires me either to ride
    along the edge of the (square) loop or if the direction of ttravel is
    perpendicular WRT the loop wires, stop on the loop and twitch the
    handlebars to make it react[1]. Can you identify where the sensor is?

    best wishes
    james

    [1] Alu rims, alu frame
     
  19. Travis

    Travis Guest

    BrettS wrote:

    > So, did he say what riders of carbon fibre bikes are supposed to do?


    Get a steel bike.

    Travis
     
  20. HughMann

    HughMann New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2004
    Messages:
    285
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    0
    SNIP
    In Townsville QLD it makes no diff weather I am on the steel SS or the alloy roadie. Consistently not detected by certain loops. Proly 95%+ work fine for both bikes.

    Yes thats what I was told by Roads Dept. Look for the loop and ride up into the loop, within about 100mm of a side wire and stop in the middle front of the loop. Sometimes they are hard to see.

    AFIK the loops work on resonance and not magnetic/metal detecting. An object in the loop should be detected it just needs mass. Aparently a sack of spuds in the loop should be detected.

    Dont you hate the Push n run peds, they dont even bother to run here, just saunter off. Bad around the city in the early morning with the drunks walking home from the clubs. At least there walking, not driving.
    Should change the timing so that where possible lights change instantly. That will spoil the game.

    Its a "moral dilema", to blow a red when you see some goose "push n run" and there is no traffic anywhere or do you hang around at the red for nix and you become the goose?

    Cheers
    Hugh
     
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