I can't wait for the return of Floyd Landis!

[surfrider]

Uh-huh. Everyone else was doping except for these two guys, even though one tested positive for EPO six times and the other tested positive for testosterone. They were framed.

A man tested positive for testosterone! You've got to be kidding me!

 

[surfrider]

Sorry. I get tired of all these Amstrong fanboys (and some Landis ones) blaming some sort of French conspiracy for their doping. Landis himself has been been pretty careful to not blame the French in general (just the lab) as opposed to Armstrong, who sees people out to get him around every corner.

Anyway, Landis is gone. His best strategy would have been to pull a mea culpa ala David Millar. Now he will have to wait until he is thirty-four to race on a Pro Tour team. With the current anti-doping climate it is not clear that race organizers would want him in their races even after the four years. The ASO certainly won't. The Giro and Vuelta seem to be much more flexible so maybe he could get on a Italian or Spanish Pro Continental team and race one of those GTs after a two year suspension.

BTW, "Loose" is not the same as "lose". For some reason this appears all over the Internet.

You think doping in the TdF has people upset. How do you think they will react when I win the TdF on a rickshaw.

 

[surfrider]

I wonder sometimes... the number of people that make the error of thinking that a particular rider makes the Tour or the Giro or the Vuelta popular. Hogwash.

The TdF does not need Landis. Nor Armstrong, for that matter. Winning the TdF makes the riders. Please let us not blow this out of proportion. People watch and follow the TdF because it is the biggest event in cycling, and has been for some time now. Period. Not because they are hooked on doping scandals re: Floyd. Or anyone else.

And Floyd will not race on the Pro Tour again (I ardently hope).

In some ways you make a great point. However, as in all sports people have favorites. This is what keeps us tuning in to sports. People like to root for their favorite guy, gal, or team.

 

[Tonto]

In some ways you make a great point. However, as in all sports people have favorites. This is what keeps us tuning in to sports. People like to root for their favorite guy, gal, or team.

I haven't had a favourite cyclist since Sean Kelly retired in 1994. What I love about cycling is that you can start watching a race without any favourite but by the end you're screaming for someone. Individual races produce favourites all of their own. A bit of bravery or skill or sheer blood and guts determination and you want to see that guy rewarded with a win. McEwen's win last Sunday is a case in point. I've never been a McEwen fan ( I don't dislike him, just indifferent mostly) yet I was delighted when he won. He could win in a standard bunch sprint tomorrow and I'd shrug my shoulders. Tommy Voeckler's defence of the yellow jersey a few years ago was inspirational but he's still not a favourite of mine. It was a gutsy young rider and the greatest race on the planet intersecting for a few days and producing yet another great story. Those stories will keep on coming no matter who the individual characters are.

 

[IEatRice4Dinner]

Floyds done for. I think most riders use some form of drugs, there could be stuff out there we dont even know about, who knows. IMO the sport is going to die off in America anyway... lets face it most americans are arrogent and dont care about cycling and couldent give a damn about the french people or culture.

 

[surfrider]

I haven't had a favourite cyclist since Sean Kelly retired in 1994. What I love about cycling is that you can start watching a race without any favourite but by the end you're screaming for someone. Individual races produce favourites all of their own. A bit of bravery or skill or sheer blood and guts determination and you want to see that guy rewarded with a win. McEwen's win last Sunday is a case in point. I've never been a McEwen fan ( I don't dislike him, just indifferent mostly) yet I was delighted when he won. He could win in a standard bunch sprint tomorrow and I'd shrug my shoulders. Tommy Voeckler's defence of the yellow jersey a few years ago was inspirational but he's still not a favourite of mine. It was a gutsy young rider and the greatest race on the planet intersecting for a few days and producing yet another great story. Those stories will keep on coming no matter who the individual characters are.

Well put! I couldn't agree more

 

[surfrider]

Floyds done for. I think most riders use some form of drugs, there could be stuff out there we dont even know about, who knows. IMO the sport is going to die off in America anyway... lets face it most americans are arrogent and dont care about cycling and couldent give a damn about the french people or culture.

I don't know about most Americans being arrogant. But we do have our share of arrogant people here. Also, I don't really know anyone who dis-likes French people or their culture. At least not in my family. Their fry's are not bad.

 

[rdr0912]

My 2 cents:
I can see both sides to this matter. On one side I can see that Landis is ****** at "the process" and all the procedural (sp?) problems that he along with his lawyers found. Any lab needs to be dead on when doing any kind of lab tests to maintain their integrity and their name whether it's some joe shmoe off the streets or the greatest rider ever (insert favorite rider here). My opinion in this school of thought: Landis 1 vs. Lab 0
That being said, it should come down to procedural problems in a lab to determine the results of this. Granted they COULD POSSIBLY have mixed up the samples, but I think that is HIGHLY unlikly in any lab of this caliber. I can see his side in this, but I can also see the side of the lab in that if it was doped, it was doped and there is nothing they can do to hide that fact whether ID numbers were mixed up or someone wore gloves or didn't wear gloves. Landis 0 vs. lab 0
I do think that there is some degree of favoritism/hatred (depends on which side you're on). Personally I am not one for the French, but I will watch the Tour since it is the biggest cycling event. I think that the samples should be sent to a totally NEUTRAL lab...maybe that is in Africa or Antartica...it's hard to find somewhere in the world that cycling hasn't reached..especailly in a lab that does this kind of testing.
On the fact that doping is out there...I'm sure it is. I work in the collegiate athletic setting in the US. There are always new suplements coming out that try to get by the NCAA's (national collegiate athletic association) banned substance list. It's an on going thing. Most of the time, if it enhances your performance, it's a matter of time before it's banned. There's that interum time between when it comes out and when it's banned that they are allwoed to use it. Face it, performance enhancing substances are out there in pretty much every sport around the world. SOme peopel agree some people don't. Maybe I just opened another can of worms, but that is my input on this.

 

[WIGGUM1]

Floyds done for. I think most riders use some form of drugs, there could be stuff out there we dont even know about, who knows. IMO the sport is going to die off in America anyway... lets face it most americans are arrogent and dont care about cycling and couldent give a damn about the french people or culture.

There is absolutely no way cycling will die off in America. Go out to any community with outdoor enthusiasts and they are not cycling because of Lance. Cycling has gained attention in the public eye because American media is shallow and trendy. I have this sneaking suspicion that a couple posters on this thread are of French decent. These people are a little sensitive to anything remotely critical and are backlashing in their defense with insults. Come on people, give some support to your empty arguements.....
The reason doping and supplement has grown is because there is a small percentage of people IN EVERY COUNTRY that will do ANYTHING to win. These people are of a certain personality type. I guarantee you, if you put all these people from every country in the same room and there would probably be a brawl. My point is those cyclists are the arrogant ones without concern for culture or morals.

 

[Cycler6n]

Floyds done for. I think most riders use some form of drugs, there could be stuff out there we dont even know about, who knows. IMO the sport is going to die off in America anyway... lets face it most americans are arrogent and dont care about cycling and couldent give a damn about the french people or culture.

Most Americans aren't arrogant, most people in general are, don't blame it on us, we don't blame you, if we didn't care about cycling, why would we have it on our tv's? why would American companies like Trek make pro bikes? French culture, cycling is a world culture, including the Tour de France. Riders from all over come to compete in it. And, Americans aren't the only ones doping.

 

[Cycler6n]

oh yeah, and if Americans don't care about the French people and their culture, why did we save their butts from war and danger numerous time, and did, and continue, to do nothing for us? Sounds more like they don't care about us.

 

[surfrider]

My 2 cents:
I can see both sides to this matter. On one side I can see that Landis is ****** at "the process" and all the procedural (sp?) problems that he along with his lawyers found. Any lab needs to be dead on when doing any kind of lab tests to maintain their integrity and their name whether it's some joe shmoe off the streets or the greatest rider ever (insert favorite rider here). My opinion in this school of thought: Landis 1 vs. Lab 0
That being said, it should come down to procedural problems in a lab to determine the results of this. Granted they COULD POSSIBLY have mixed up the samples, but I think that is HIGHLY unlikly in any lab of this caliber. I can see his side in this, but I can also see the side of the lab in that if it was doped, it was doped and there is nothing they can do to hide that fact whether ID numbers were mixed up or someone wore gloves or didn't wear gloves. Landis 0 vs. lab 0
I do think that there is some degree of favoritism/hatred (depends on which side you're on). Personally I am not one for the French, but I will watch the Tour since it is the biggest cycling event. I think that the samples should be sent to a totally NEUTRAL lab...maybe that is in Africa or Antartica...it's hard to find somewhere in the world that cycling hasn't reached..especailly in a lab that does this kind of testing.
On the fact that doping is out there...I'm sure it is. I work in the collegiate athletic setting in the US. There are always new suplements coming out that try to get by the NCAA's (national collegiate athletic association) banned substance list. It's an on going thing. Most of the time, if it enhances your performance, it's a matter of time before it's banned. There's that interim time between when it comes out and when it's banned that they are allowed to use it. Face it, performance enhancing substances are out there in pretty much every sport around the world. SOme peopel agree some people don't. Maybe I just opened another can of worms, but that is my input on this.

Well stated! I remember when I was a kid. When the Olympics came on, family's would flock the the tv to watch. There was never any mention of doping, steroids, enhancement drugs etc. Those were the days when people would win based on how hard they trained and sheer dedication and a burning drive to defeat the opponent. It seems now that just about every product made for people involved in sports contains some sort of additive to increase strength, stamina, endurance, and so on. This is why we see athletes in all major sporting events being striped of their greatest achievements. But, I do think if test have to be conducted to determine the guilt or innocence of an athlete, it should be done by a minimum of two labs in which there is no affiliation. This is why the military has procedures and protocol to follow so one person can't push the big red button and launch a bunch of nuclear missiles just because they're having a bad day.
I think this would dissolve much of the he said she said and the media frenzy that seem to escalate these type of situations, which lead to rumors and a lot of false accusations. When a person is guilty, their reputation is ruined. When a person is not guilty, but accused their reputation is still ruined. This is the SOP of society.

 

[surfrider]

oh yeah, and if Americans don't care about the French people and their culture, why did we save their butts from war and danger numerous time, and did, and continue, to do nothing for us? Sounds more like they don't care about us.

Yeah, I didn't want to bring that stuff up. We Americans are already at the top of the most hated list. Even when we help so many countries. When the helping is over, they go right back to hating us.

 

[Tonto]

oh yeah, and if Americans don't care about the French people and their culture, why did we save their butts from war and danger numerous time, and did, and continue, to do nothing for us? Sounds more like they don't care about us.

LOL

Edit: for clarification, I'm laughing at and not with that post.

 

[rdr0912]

oh yeah, and if Americans don't care about the French people and their culture, why did we save their butts from war and danger numerous time, and did, and continue, to do nothing for us? Sounds more like they don't care about us.

AMEN brother!!! haha

 

[Powerful Pete]

oh yeah, and if Americans don't care about the French people and their culture, why did we save their butts from war and danger numerous time, and did, and continue, to do nothing for us? Sounds more like they don't care about us.

I would be careful on this one. Remember that if the French did not side with your uppity revolutionaries you might have been celebrating independence day (if at all) quite a bit later. I believe (but stand to be corrected) that a pantload (in relative terms) of French nationals died at Yorktown.

Not taking a stance in this, just reminding you that you were simply returning a favour.

 

[IEatRice4Dinner]

i was about to say that.

 

[janiejones]

. Even when we help so many countries. When the helping is over, they go right back to hating us.

How do you spell "help", with a W as in War, or an I as in Invasion?

 

[CAMPYBOB]

I can't wait for the return of Patrick Sinkewitz!

 

[slyjackson]

Yeah, I didn't want to bring that stuff up. We Americans are already at the top of the most hated list. Even when we help so many countries. When the helping is over, they go right back to hating us.

I lived and worked overseas for 10 years. While working there I had the opportunity to meet people from numerous nationalities. The most arrogant nationality of people that I ever met was from England. They are naturally rude, to themselves and anyone else.

The ones that I ran across all seem to have the same attitude as the British judge on American Idol. That’s the best that I can describe it. London is full of them. It’s a wonder that they have not killed themselves off. A country where ridicule is preferred over a compliment.

The second most arrogant country is France without a doubt. If you go to the country,Please don’t let anyone know that you are American and talk very little you will be ok, but the moment your American accent is recognized or you identify yourself as American, from that point on is hell. Its bad enough at the hotels. I was actually afraid to eat any thing. I could detail this a whole lot more but I wont.

And finally the third would be just about any Middle East country with the exception of Dubai. Most of these other Middle East countries have a literacy rate of 30-35% (only 3 out of 10 can read and write) So arrogance, rudeness and hatefulness are expected.

The common denominator is they all hate Americans.

I have been to other countries as well, but none have I been that was better than America.Sure we have some whackos too, but there is no greater country to be in than American. All the other countries know this and we are hated because of it. So get use to French guys and others throwing stones and calling us names, it’s expected.