I Give Up (motorists attitude)

Discussion in 'UK and Europe' started by iarocu, Jun 10, 2004.

  1. iarocu

    iarocu Guest

    I was talking to a motorist today discussing a junction where the
    council have installed traffic lights where they are not required
    resulting in long peak hour tailbacks. I learned she spent 25 minutes
    in her car on a journey of 2 miles every morning. So I suggested why
    not cycle. From the look I got I might as well have suggested cycling
    to the moon.
    Her journey would involve largely a well lit and well surfaced
    cycle path and canal bank or quiet streets. Would be 10 minutes
    maximum. No big hills. And be less than half the time taken in her
    car. And would not involve the parking problems at work she had also
    complained about.
    So if people are prepared to sit in their cars for twice as long
    as it would take to cycle the goverment might as well forget targets
    for cycle use. It's not going to happen.
    Iain
     
    Tags:


  2. JohnB

    JohnB Guest

    iarocu wrote:
    >
    > I was talking to a motorist today discussing a junction where the
    > council have installed traffic lights where they are not required
    > resulting in long peak hour tailbacks. I learned she spent 25 minutes
    > in her car on a journey of 2 miles every morning. So I suggested why
    > not cycle. From the look I got I might as well have suggested cycling
    > to the moon.
    > Her journey would involve largely a well lit and well surfaced
    > cycle path and canal bank or quiet streets. Would be 10 minutes
    > maximum. No big hills. And be less than half the time taken in her
    > car. And would not involve the parking problems at work she had also
    > complained about.
    > So if people are prepared to sit in their cars for twice as long
    > as it would take to cycle the goverment might as well forget targets
    > for cycle use. It's not going to happen.
    > Iain


    I cannot agree more. You can talk and argue until you are blue in the
    face but still people will drive just a few hundred yards. They*know*
    you are right but they cannot make the change. There are always excuses.

    There is an increase in cycling but mainly of the off-raod type on
    leisure car-free routes.
    When talking to a County Road Safety Officer recently it was clear the
    only targets he was interested in were reducing casualties. If that
    meant less cyclists on the roads then so what. Cyclists could always
    drive to the Sustrans type routes.
    Of course the Leisure Department loves this - greater use of their
    facilities, but it does not reduce the number of vehicles on the roads.
    Just look at the number of vehicles that now have bikes strapped to the
    back of them :-(
    Indeed such activities may increase car use.
    "I HAVE to have a car so I can get to the cycle route"
    Just one of the many excuses.

    Everytime someone drives they add to the problem. Yes, even driving to
    cycling events and rallies. People drive from all over the country to
    York or the New Forest then compalin about the road conditions for
    cyclists. Get real.

    IMO there will be a crunch time - it will be when there is no more space
    and those of us who have not fallen into the car-culture will have the advantage.
    only problem is taht we may have to take to the pavements :-(

    I don't think it will be too long coming.

    John B
     
  3. Scrumpy Joe

    Scrumpy Joe Guest

    iarocu wrote:

    > I was talking to a motorist today discussing a junction where the
    > council have installed traffic lights where they are not required
    > resulting in long peak hour tailbacks. I learned she spent 25 minutes
    > in her car on a journey of 2 miles every morning. So I suggested why
    > not cycle. From the look I got I might as well have suggested cycling
    > to the moon.


    <snipped>

    25 mins to go 2 miles!!! Hell, you could run it faster than that and not
    break a sweat.
     
  4. DavidR

    DavidR Guest

    "iarocu" <[email protected]hotmail.com> wrote

    >So if people are prepared to sit in their cars for twice as long
    > as it would take to cycle the goverment might as well forget targets
    > for cycle use. It's not going to happen.


    But since people are prepared to do this, the voices claiming its the
    gummint's fault that roads are inadequate can be safely ignored.
     
  5. Phil Clarke

    Phil Clarke Guest

    iarocu wrote:

    > So if people are prepared to sit in their cars for twice as long ....


    a guy at work tells of a neighbour who pulls out of her drive into the
    queue for the school run (big 4x4 obviously) and queues the few hundred
    yards to the school, then drives the long way home to avoid school
    traffic. She cant let the little cherubs walk because of the traffic,
    and she knows it would be quicker to walk with them but she's bought the
    car so may as well use it ....
     
  6. JohnB <[email protected]> writes:

    > I cannot agree more. You can talk and argue until you are blue in the
    > face but still people will drive just a few hundred yards. They*know*
    > you are right but they cannot make the change. There are always excuses.


    This sounds like almost as horrible a generalisation as "cyclists are
    all lawless lycra louts who hold up traffic and strike terror into the
    hearts of innocent pedestrians"

    I can quite believe there are some people like that: I've worked with
    a few people myself who I don't expect to see on a bike ever in my
    life (perhaps barring major life-shaking event of the "good morning Mr
    Smith, the operation seems to have been successful; now make sure you
    take regular exercise or you won't last to the end of the year").
    Doesn't mean _everyone_ is like that, though. The oft-quoted
    statistic is that cycle use increased 30% in London since the
    congestion charge was introduced, so clearly at least a year ago there
    were non-cyclists who weren't completely car-blinded. I doubt the
    supply is exhausted even now.

    > IMO there will be a crunch time - it will be when there is no more
    > space and those of us who have not fallen into the car-culture will
    > have the advantage. only problem is taht we may have to take to the
    > pavements :-(


    Yay pedal-powered post-apocalypse scenarios. I should pop into my LBS
    this weekend sometime and see if they've got any rotating knives I can
    clip to my spokes.


    -dan

    --
    "please make sure that the person is your friend before you confirm"
     
  7. Sam Salt

    Sam Salt Guest

    Phil Clarke wrote:
    > iarocu wrote:
    >
    >> So if people are prepared to sit in their cars for twice as long
    >> ....

    >
    > a guy at work tells of a neighbour who pulls out of her drive into the
    > queue for the school run (big 4x4 obviously) and queues the few
    > hundred yards to the school, then drives the long way home to avoid
    > school traffic. She cant let the little cherubs walk because of the
    > traffic, and she knows it would be quicker to walk with them but
    > she's bought the car so may as well use it ....


    There's many a parent around here drives a full 400 yards to take their
    precious bundles to school,shameful.

    Sam Salt
     
  8. JohnB

    JohnB Guest

    Daniel Barlow wrote:
    >
    > JohnB <[email protected]> writes:
    >
    > > I cannot agree more. You can talk and argue until you are blue in the
    > > face but still people will drive just a few hundred yards. They*know*
    > > you are right but they cannot make the change. There are always excuses.

    >
    > This sounds like almost as horrible a generalisation as "cyclists are
    > all lawless lycra louts who hold up traffic and strike terror into the
    > hearts of innocent pedestrians"


    I don't say *all* people, although IME it would be the vast majority of
    motorists (including many who also claim to be cyclists).

    > I can quite believe there are some people like that: I've worked with
    > a few people myself who I don't expect to see on a bike ever in my
    > life ......
    > Doesn't mean _everyone_ is like that, though.


    > > IMO there will be a crunch time - it will be when there is no more
    > > space and those of us who have not fallen into the car-culture will
    > > have the advantage. only problem is taht we may have to take to the
    > > pavements :-(

    >
    > Yay pedal-powered post-apocalypse scenarios. I should pop into my LBS
    > this weekend sometime and see if they've got any rotating knives I can
    > clip to my spokes.


    In days of yore a fellow barrow-boy clubmate had an "attachment" [1]
    fixed the hub flange of his trike's offside wheel.

    [1] I'll say no more, but it was pretty lethal to paintwork.

    John B
     
  9. Danny Colyer

    Danny Colyer Guest

    JohnB wrote:
    > Just look at the number of vehicles that now have bikes strapped to the
    > back of them :-(


    Yeah, the mountain bike wheel sticking out from the side of one of them
    seemed to come worryingly close to my head on a narrow road the other day.

    --
    Danny Colyer (the UK company has been laughed out of my reply address)
    <URL:http://www.speedy5.freeserve.co.uk/danny/>
    "He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine
     
  10. davek

    davek Guest

    Scrumpy Joe:
    > 25 mins to go 2 miles!!! Hell, you could run it faster than that and not
    > break a sweat.


    Run? Two miles in 25 minutes sounds more like a brisk walk!

    d.
     
  11. davek

    davek Guest

    Sam Salt:
    > There's many a parent around here drives a full 400 yards to take their
    > precious bundles to school,shameful.


    We live less than 150 yards from the school so anything other than walking
    (or scooting, as is my son's current preferred mode of transport) would be
    worse than ludicrous.

    However, I know several of the other parents that live not much further away
    who drive to school every morning - I know this because often the closest
    they can park is outside my house, so they end up spending all that time
    battling the traffic and contributing to the pollution problem just to cut
    about 100 yards off their walk. Absolutely insane.

    d.
     
  12. "Daniel Barlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > JohnB <[email protected]> writes:
    >
    > > I cannot agree more. You can talk and argue until you are blue in the
    > > face but still people will drive just a few hundred yards. They*know*
    > > you are right but they cannot make the change. There are always excuses.

    >
    > This sounds like almost as horrible a generalisation as "cyclists are
    > all lawless lycra louts who hold up traffic and strike terror into the
    > hearts of innocent pedestrians"
    >
    > I can quite believe there are some people like that: I've worked with
    > a few people myself who I don't expect to see on a bike ever in my
    > life (perhaps barring major life-shaking event of the "good morning Mr
    > Smith, the operation seems to have been successful; now make sure you
    > take regular exercise or you won't last to the end of the year").
    > Doesn't mean _everyone_ is like that, though. The oft-quoted
    > statistic is that cycle use increased 30% in London since the
    > congestion charge was introduced, so clearly at least a year ago there
    > were non-cyclists who weren't completely car-blinded. I doubt the
    > supply is exhausted even now.
    >


    I agree with this. What we need is some means of making the first mile or
    three of a car journey really quite awkward, to deter people from the
    shorter journeys. For example, if the govt. were to introduce road tolls,
    you could have a very high charge for the first few miles, (in order to
    deter stupidly short journeys), after which the per mile rate would decrease
    for every mile after that so you don't end up with a penalty on reasonable
    car journeys.

    I agree that people know that they shouldn't drive such short journeys - but
    I don't think most people realise *why* they shouldn't drive such short
    journeys. I think people would be much more sensible if they realised how
    much it costs them to make such short journeys (as Guy points out in his one
    mile pledge post), instead of just preaching to people (as most people will
    simply switch off from that).
     
  13. Simon Mason

    Simon Mason Guest

    "iarocu" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > So if people are prepared to sit in their cars for twice as long
    > as it would take to cycle the goverment might as well forget targets
    > for cycle use. It's not going to happen.



    No kudos in the car park if you arrive on a "push bike".

    --
    Simon Mason
    Anlaby
    East Yorkshire.
    53°44'N 0°26'W
    http://www.simonmason.karoo.net
     
  14. Scrumpy Joe

    Scrumpy Joe Guest

    davek wrote:

    > Scrumpy Joe:
    >> 25 mins to go 2 miles!!! Hell, you could run it faster than that and not
    >> break a sweat.

    >
    > Run? Two miles in 25 minutes sounds more like a brisk walk!
    >
    > d.


    OK you got me there :). I was trying to be generous to unfit cagers.
    Personally speaking I'm being lazy when it takes me 15 mins to run 2 miles.
     
  15. Jon Senior

    Jon Senior Guest

    Daniel Barlow [email protected] opined the following...
    > This sounds like almost as horrible a generalisation as "cyclists are
    > all lawless lycra louts who hold up traffic and strike terror into the
    > hearts of innocent pedestrians"
    >
    > I can quite believe there are some people like that: I've worked with
    > a few people myself who I don't expect to see on a bike ever in my
    > life (perhaps barring major life-shaking event of the "good morning Mr
    > Smith, the operation seems to have been successful; now make sure you
    > take regular exercise or you won't last to the end of the year").


    I work with some who still wouldn't. One drives either his car or a
    company vehicle about 2 miles (MAX) to and from his house every day.
    When I suggested that as the weather was nice, he should try cycling it;
    "Oh no... You wouldn't get me on a bike!". Very few people at my work
    place live more than 5 miles from work (direct) and at least one of the
    ones further afield is basically on NCN1. I shall be putting up some
    posters for Bike2Work next week, although I doubt that most would be
    shamed into cycling.

    > Doesn't mean _everyone_ is like that, though. The oft-quoted
    > statistic is that cycle use increased 30% in London since the
    > congestion charge was introduced, so clearly at least a year ago there
    > were non-cyclists who weren't completely car-blinded. I doubt the
    > supply is exhausted even now.


    Congestion charge is coming... Congestion charge is coming... Let's see
    if there's a similar response in Edinburgh.

    > Yay pedal-powered post-apocalypse scenarios. I should pop into my LBS
    > this weekend sometime and see if they've got any rotating knives I can
    > clip to my spokes.


    Now there's a plan. Obvious handlbar mounted ones might not be a bad
    idea as it'd discourage drivers from getting too close.

    Jon
     
  16. Jon Senior

    Jon Senior Guest

    Phil Clarke [email protected] opined the following...
    > iarocu wrote:
    >
    > > So if people are prepared to sit in their cars for twice as long ....

    >
    > a guy at work tells of a neighbour who pulls out of her drive into the
    > queue for the school run (big 4x4 obviously) and queues the few hundred
    > yards to the school, then drives the long way home to avoid school
    > traffic. She cant let the little cherubs walk because of the traffic,
    > and she knows it would be quicker to walk with them but she's bought the
    > car so may as well use it ....


    Materials:

    A strip of strong material about 5 metres in length x 20cm wide.
    A box of small nails.
    Superglue.

    Directions:

    Starting about 1 metre into the material, push nails through material.
    Secure with a small amount of superglue.
    When dry, lay it across the road (With practice, it can probably be cast
    like a fishing line). Wait until aforementioned 4x4 has passed. Use un-
    nailed end to pull it in and pack away for future use. (It could be
    painted black / dark grey to blend in with the road.

    When she acquires 4 punctures. Help her push the car into the drive (All
    the while explaining how much easier it would be if she had a normal
    car) and offer to walk the "cherubs" to school while she waits for the
    AA.

    Repeat as necessary.

    Jon
     
  17. Mark McN

    Mark McN Guest

    Reply to
    > > Yay pedal-powered post-apocalypse scenarios. I should pop into my LBS
    > > this weekend sometime and see if they've got any rotating knives I can
    > > clip to my spokes.

    >
    > Now there's a plan. Obvious handlbar mounted ones might not be a bad
    > idea as it'd discourage drivers from getting too close.


    As ever, Sheldon Brown has addressed the matter:

    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/lirpa.html#bayonetz

    --
    Mark, UK.
    We hope to hear him swear, we love to hear him squeak,
    We like to see him biting fingers in his horny beak.
     
  18. AndyMorris

    AndyMorris Guest

    Simon Mason wrote:
    > "iarocu" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> So if people are prepared to sit in their cars for twice as long
    >> as it would take to cycle the goverment might as well forget targets
    >> for cycle use. It's not going to happen.

    >
    >
    > No kudos in the car park if you arrive on a "push bike".


    If you arrive on the bike regualrly, you start to lose the gut, your arse
    and legs trim up a bit and your willy gets bigger (1).

    You get more eye-ups from women.

    Sod the kudos from the petrol heads.


    (1) I read it so it must be true, fat tissue creates oestrogen which makes
    it smaller. Also a thinner layer of subcutanious fat makes it stick out
    further.

    --
    Andy Morris

    AndyAtJinkasDotFreeserve.Co.UK


    Love this:
    Put an end to Outlook Express's messy quotes
    http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/
     
  19. Tony Raven

    Tony Raven Guest

    AndyMorris wrote:
    >
    > If you arrive on the bike regualrly, you start to lose the gut, your arse
    > and legs trim up a bit and your willy gets bigger (1).
    >


    You mean all those e-mails I've been sending to the Spam bin were really about
    cycling?

    Tony ;-)
     
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