I Give Up (motorists attitude)



I

iarocu

Guest
I was talking to a motorist today discussing a junction where the
council have installed traffic lights where they are not required
resulting in long peak hour tailbacks. I learned she spent 25 minutes
in her car on a journey of 2 miles every morning. So I suggested why
not cycle. From the look I got I might as well have suggested cycling
to the moon.
Her journey would involve largely a well lit and well surfaced
cycle path and canal bank or quiet streets. Would be 10 minutes
maximum. No big hills. And be less than half the time taken in her
car. And would not involve the parking problems at work she had also
complained about.
So if people are prepared to sit in their cars for twice as long
as it would take to cycle the goverment might as well forget targets
for cycle use. It's not going to happen.
Iain
 
iarocu wrote:
>
> I was talking to a motorist today discussing a junction where the
> council have installed traffic lights where they are not required
> resulting in long peak hour tailbacks. I learned she spent 25 minutes
> in her car on a journey of 2 miles every morning. So I suggested why
> not cycle. From the look I got I might as well have suggested cycling
> to the moon.
> Her journey would involve largely a well lit and well surfaced
> cycle path and canal bank or quiet streets. Would be 10 minutes
> maximum. No big hills. And be less than half the time taken in her
> car. And would not involve the parking problems at work she had also
> complained about.
> So if people are prepared to sit in their cars for twice as long
> as it would take to cycle the goverment might as well forget targets
> for cycle use. It's not going to happen.
> Iain


I cannot agree more. You can talk and argue until you are blue in the
face but still people will drive just a few hundred yards. They*know*
you are right but they cannot make the change. There are always excuses.

There is an increase in cycling but mainly of the off-raod type on
leisure car-free routes.
When talking to a County Road Safety Officer recently it was clear the
only targets he was interested in were reducing casualties. If that
meant less cyclists on the roads then so what. Cyclists could always
drive to the Sustrans type routes.
Of course the Leisure Department loves this - greater use of their
facilities, but it does not reduce the number of vehicles on the roads.
Just look at the number of vehicles that now have bikes strapped to the
back of them :-(
Indeed such activities may increase car use.
"I HAVE to have a car so I can get to the cycle route"
Just one of the many excuses.

Everytime someone drives they add to the problem. Yes, even driving to
cycling events and rallies. People drive from all over the country to
York or the New Forest then compalin about the road conditions for
cyclists. Get real.

IMO there will be a crunch time - it will be when there is no more space
and those of us who have not fallen into the car-culture will have the advantage.
only problem is taht we may have to take to the pavements :-(

I don't think it will be too long coming.

John B
 
iarocu wrote:

> I was talking to a motorist today discussing a junction where the
> council have installed traffic lights where they are not required
> resulting in long peak hour tailbacks. I learned she spent 25 minutes
> in her car on a journey of 2 miles every morning. So I suggested why
> not cycle. From the look I got I might as well have suggested cycling
> to the moon.


<snipped>

25 mins to go 2 miles!!! Hell, you could run it faster than that and not
break a sweat.
 
"iarocu" <[email protected]> wrote

>So if people are prepared to sit in their cars for twice as long
> as it would take to cycle the goverment might as well forget targets
> for cycle use. It's not going to happen.


But since people are prepared to do this, the voices claiming its the
gummint's fault that roads are inadequate can be safely ignored.
 
iarocu wrote:

> So if people are prepared to sit in their cars for twice as long ....


a guy at work tells of a neighbour who pulls out of her drive into the
queue for the school run (big 4x4 obviously) and queues the few hundred
yards to the school, then drives the long way home to avoid school
traffic. She cant let the little cherubs walk because of the traffic,
and she knows it would be quicker to walk with them but she's bought the
car so may as well use it ....
 
JohnB <[email protected]> writes:

> I cannot agree more. You can talk and argue until you are blue in the
> face but still people will drive just a few hundred yards. They*know*
> you are right but they cannot make the change. There are always excuses.


This sounds like almost as horrible a generalisation as "cyclists are
all lawless lycra louts who hold up traffic and strike terror into the
hearts of innocent pedestrians"

I can quite believe there are some people like that: I've worked with
a few people myself who I don't expect to see on a bike ever in my
life (perhaps barring major life-shaking event of the "good morning Mr
Smith, the operation seems to have been successful; now make sure you
take regular exercise or you won't last to the end of the year").
Doesn't mean _everyone_ is like that, though. The oft-quoted
statistic is that cycle use increased 30% in London since the
congestion charge was introduced, so clearly at least a year ago there
were non-cyclists who weren't completely car-blinded. I doubt the
supply is exhausted even now.

> IMO there will be a crunch time - it will be when there is no more
> space and those of us who have not fallen into the car-culture will
> have the advantage. only problem is taht we may have to take to the
> pavements :-(


Yay pedal-powered post-apocalypse scenarios. I should pop into my LBS
this weekend sometime and see if they've got any rotating knives I can
clip to my spokes.


-dan

--
"please make sure that the person is your friend before you confirm"
 
Phil Clarke wrote:
> iarocu wrote:
>
>> So if people are prepared to sit in their cars for twice as long
>> ....

>
> a guy at work tells of a neighbour who pulls out of her drive into the
> queue for the school run (big 4x4 obviously) and queues the few
> hundred yards to the school, then drives the long way home to avoid
> school traffic. She cant let the little cherubs walk because of the
> traffic, and she knows it would be quicker to walk with them but
> she's bought the car so may as well use it ....


There's many a parent around here drives a full 400 yards to take their
precious bundles to school,shameful.

Sam Salt
 
Daniel Barlow wrote:
>
> JohnB <[email protected]> writes:
>
> > I cannot agree more. You can talk and argue until you are blue in the
> > face but still people will drive just a few hundred yards. They*know*
> > you are right but they cannot make the change. There are always excuses.

>
> This sounds like almost as horrible a generalisation as "cyclists are
> all lawless lycra louts who hold up traffic and strike terror into the
> hearts of innocent pedestrians"


I don't say *all* people, although IME it would be the vast majority of
motorists (including many who also claim to be cyclists).

> I can quite believe there are some people like that: I've worked with
> a few people myself who I don't expect to see on a bike ever in my
> life ......
> Doesn't mean _everyone_ is like that, though.


> > IMO there will be a crunch time - it will be when there is no more
> > space and those of us who have not fallen into the car-culture will
> > have the advantage. only problem is taht we may have to take to the
> > pavements :-(

>
> Yay pedal-powered post-apocalypse scenarios. I should pop into my LBS
> this weekend sometime and see if they've got any rotating knives I can
> clip to my spokes.


In days of yore a fellow barrow-boy clubmate had an "attachment" [1]
fixed the hub flange of his trike's offside wheel.

[1] I'll say no more, but it was pretty lethal to paintwork.

John B
 
JohnB wrote:
> Just look at the number of vehicles that now have bikes strapped to the
> back of them :-(


Yeah, the mountain bike wheel sticking out from the side of one of them
seemed to come worryingly close to my head on a narrow road the other day.

--
Danny Colyer (the UK company has been laughed out of my reply address)
<URL:http://www.speedy5.freeserve.co.uk/danny/>
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine
 
Scrumpy Joe:
> 25 mins to go 2 miles!!! Hell, you could run it faster than that and not
> break a sweat.


Run? Two miles in 25 minutes sounds more like a brisk walk!

d.
 
Sam Salt:
> There's many a parent around here drives a full 400 yards to take their
> precious bundles to school,shameful.


We live less than 150 yards from the school so anything other than walking
(or scooting, as is my son's current preferred mode of transport) would be
worse than ludicrous.

However, I know several of the other parents that live not much further away
who drive to school every morning - I know this because often the closest
they can park is outside my house, so they end up spending all that time
battling the traffic and contributing to the pollution problem just to cut
about 100 yards off their walk. Absolutely insane.

d.
 
"Daniel Barlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> JohnB <[email protected]> writes:
>
> > I cannot agree more. You can talk and argue until you are blue in the
> > face but still people will drive just a few hundred yards. They*know*
> > you are right but they cannot make the change. There are always excuses.

>
> This sounds like almost as horrible a generalisation as "cyclists are
> all lawless lycra louts who hold up traffic and strike terror into the
> hearts of innocent pedestrians"
>
> I can quite believe there are some people like that: I've worked with
> a few people myself who I don't expect to see on a bike ever in my
> life (perhaps barring major life-shaking event of the "good morning Mr
> Smith, the operation seems to have been successful; now make sure you
> take regular exercise or you won't last to the end of the year").
> Doesn't mean _everyone_ is like that, though. The oft-quoted
> statistic is that cycle use increased 30% in London since the
> congestion charge was introduced, so clearly at least a year ago there
> were non-cyclists who weren't completely car-blinded. I doubt the
> supply is exhausted even now.
>


I agree with this. What we need is some means of making the first mile or
three of a car journey really quite awkward, to deter people from the
shorter journeys. For example, if the govt. were to introduce road tolls,
you could have a very high charge for the first few miles, (in order to
deter stupidly short journeys), after which the per mile rate would decrease
for every mile after that so you don't end up with a penalty on reasonable
car journeys.

I agree that people know that they shouldn't drive such short journeys - but
I don't think most people realise *why* they shouldn't drive such short
journeys. I think people would be much more sensible if they realised how
much it costs them to make such short journeys (as Guy points out in his one
mile pledge post), instead of just preaching to people (as most people will
simply switch off from that).
 
"iarocu" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> So if people are prepared to sit in their cars for twice as long
> as it would take to cycle the goverment might as well forget targets
> for cycle use. It's not going to happen.



No kudos in the car park if you arrive on a "push bike".

--
Simon Mason
Anlaby
East Yorkshire.
53°44'N 0°26'W
http://www.simonmason.karoo.net
 
davek wrote:

> Scrumpy Joe:
>> 25 mins to go 2 miles!!! Hell, you could run it faster than that and not
>> break a sweat.

>
> Run? Two miles in 25 minutes sounds more like a brisk walk!
>
> d.


OK you got me there :). I was trying to be generous to unfit cagers.
Personally speaking I'm being lazy when it takes me 15 mins to run 2 miles.
 
Daniel Barlow [email protected] opined the following...
> This sounds like almost as horrible a generalisation as "cyclists are
> all lawless lycra louts who hold up traffic and strike terror into the
> hearts of innocent pedestrians"
>
> I can quite believe there are some people like that: I've worked with
> a few people myself who I don't expect to see on a bike ever in my
> life (perhaps barring major life-shaking event of the "good morning Mr
> Smith, the operation seems to have been successful; now make sure you
> take regular exercise or you won't last to the end of the year").


I work with some who still wouldn't. One drives either his car or a
company vehicle about 2 miles (MAX) to and from his house every day.
When I suggested that as the weather was nice, he should try cycling it;
"Oh no... You wouldn't get me on a bike!". Very few people at my work
place live more than 5 miles from work (direct) and at least one of the
ones further afield is basically on NCN1. I shall be putting up some
posters for Bike2Work next week, although I doubt that most would be
shamed into cycling.

> Doesn't mean _everyone_ is like that, though. The oft-quoted
> statistic is that cycle use increased 30% in London since the
> congestion charge was introduced, so clearly at least a year ago there
> were non-cyclists who weren't completely car-blinded. I doubt the
> supply is exhausted even now.


Congestion charge is coming... Congestion charge is coming... Let's see
if there's a similar response in Edinburgh.

> Yay pedal-powered post-apocalypse scenarios. I should pop into my LBS
> this weekend sometime and see if they've got any rotating knives I can
> clip to my spokes.


Now there's a plan. Obvious handlbar mounted ones might not be a bad
idea as it'd discourage drivers from getting too close.

Jon
 
Phil Clarke [email protected] opined the following...
> iarocu wrote:
>
> > So if people are prepared to sit in their cars for twice as long ....

>
> a guy at work tells of a neighbour who pulls out of her drive into the
> queue for the school run (big 4x4 obviously) and queues the few hundred
> yards to the school, then drives the long way home to avoid school
> traffic. She cant let the little cherubs walk because of the traffic,
> and she knows it would be quicker to walk with them but she's bought the
> car so may as well use it ....


Materials:

A strip of strong material about 5 metres in length x 20cm wide.
A box of small nails.
Superglue.

Directions:

Starting about 1 metre into the material, push nails through material.
Secure with a small amount of superglue.
When dry, lay it across the road (With practice, it can probably be cast
like a fishing line). Wait until aforementioned 4x4 has passed. Use un-
nailed end to pull it in and pack away for future use. (It could be
painted black / dark grey to blend in with the road.

When she acquires 4 punctures. Help her push the car into the drive (All
the while explaining how much easier it would be if she had a normal
car) and offer to walk the "cherubs" to school while she waits for the
AA.

Repeat as necessary.

Jon
 
Reply to
> > Yay pedal-powered post-apocalypse scenarios. I should pop into my LBS
> > this weekend sometime and see if they've got any rotating knives I can
> > clip to my spokes.

>
> Now there's a plan. Obvious handlbar mounted ones might not be a bad
> idea as it'd discourage drivers from getting too close.


As ever, Sheldon Brown has addressed the matter:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/lirpa.html#bayonetz

--
Mark, UK.
We hope to hear him swear, we love to hear him squeak,
We like to see him biting fingers in his horny beak.
 
Simon Mason wrote:
> "iarocu" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> So if people are prepared to sit in their cars for twice as long
>> as it would take to cycle the goverment might as well forget targets
>> for cycle use. It's not going to happen.

>
>
> No kudos in the car park if you arrive on a "push bike".


If you arrive on the bike regualrly, you start to lose the gut, your ****
and legs trim up a bit and your ***** gets bigger (1).

You get more eye-ups from women.

Sod the kudos from the petrol heads.


(1) I read it so it must be true, fat tissue creates oestrogen which makes
it smaller. Also a thinner layer of subcutanious fat makes it stick out
further.

--
Andy Morris

AndyAtJinkasDotFreeserve.Co.UK


Love this:
Put an end to Outlook Express's messy quotes
http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/
 
AndyMorris wrote:
>
> If you arrive on the bike regualrly, you start to lose the gut, your ****
> and legs trim up a bit and your ***** gets bigger (1).
>


You mean all those e-mails I've been sending to the Spam bin were really about
cycling?

Tony ;-)
 

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