I Have Come Over To The Dark Side

Discussion in 'Mountain Bikes' started by The Nelson Para, Feb 29, 2004.

  1. I greased 'em.

    Yep, I did it.

    I now wipe a very thin layer of grease on square taper bottom brackets.

    What changed my mind? Well, for one thing, it's working for a shop that believes in it. Back when I
    was with Spokes & Pedals, it was company policy to follow manufacturers recommendations.

    More importantly, somebody posted a real reason that I understand and agree with. A lubricated taper
    will behave predictably with proper torque and a dry one will not. That's it, that's the one. Not
    all the name calling, not all the folks who think "appealing to a higher authority" is something bad
    (that still has me scratching my head)

    One caveat: I haven't done this to any of my bikes (I own no splined BBs) mainly because I have not
    had the occasion to take any of the cranks off in some time now. Not gonna fix what ain't broken.

    Peace on dirt, ya'll

    ---
    __o _`\(,_ Cycling is life, (_)/ (_) all the rest, just details. The Nelson Paradigm
    =^o.o^= http://intergalax.com

    "Aha! Advancing on me only brings you closer to the cold wrath that is my spork!" - Bucky the Katt
    Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.598 / Virus Database: 380 -
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  2. "The Nelson Paradigm" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I greased 'em.
    >
    > Yep, I did it.
    >
    > I now wipe a very thin layer of grease on square taper bottom brackets.
    >
    > What changed my mind? Well, for one thing, it's working for a shop that believes in it. Back when
    > I was with Spokes & Pedals, it was company
    policy
    > to follow manufacturers recommendations.

    So you greased Race Face BBs then?
     
  3. Penny S

    Penny S Guest

    The Nelson Paradigm stood on a soapbox and shouted to anyone who would
    listen :
    > I greased 'em.
    >
    > Yep, I did it.
    >
    > I now wipe a very thin layer of grease on square taper bottom brackets.
    >

    and here we thought you were single speeding.....
     
  4. "Penny S" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    | The Nelson Paradigm stood on a soapbox and shouted to anyone who would listen :
    | > I greased 'em.
    | >
    | > Yep, I did it.
    | >
    | > I now wipe a very thin layer of grease on square taper bottom brackets.
    | >
    |
    | and here we thought you were single speeding.....
    |
    |

    Um, no :) Gears are my friend!

    Peace on Dirt, Ya'll

    ---
    __o _`\(,_ Cycling is life, (_)/ (_) all the rest, just details. The Nelson Paradigm
    =^o.o^= http://intergalax.com

    "Aha! Advancing on me only brings you closer to the cold wrath that is my spork!" - Bucky the Katt
    Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.598 / Virus Database: 380 -
    Release Date: 2/28/2004
     
  5. "p e t e f a g e r l i n" <[email protected]> wrote in
    message news:[email protected]...
    |
    | "The Nelson Paradigm" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
    | berlin.de...
    | > I greased 'em.
    | >
    | > Yep, I did it.
    | >
    | > I now wipe a very thin layer of grease on square taper bottom brackets.
    | >
    | > What changed my mind? Well, for one thing, it's working for a shop that believes in it. Back
    | > when I was with Spokes & Pedals, it was company
    | policy
    | > to follow manufacturers recommendations.
    |
    | So you greased Race Face BBs then?
    |
    |

    No. Hasn't come up yet. Everyone I know who has RF stuff has gone ISIS. I may if I can't get
    ahold of a RF 110/74 Turbine LP with square taper, but that will be moot until I decide to make
    the upgrade.

    ---
    __o _`\(,_ Cycling is life, (_)/ (_) all the rest, just details. The Nelson Paradigm
    =^o.o^= http://intergalax.com

    "Aha! Advancing on me only brings you closer to the cold wrath that is my spork!" - Bucky the Katt
    Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.598 / Virus Database: 380 -
    Release Date: 2/28/2004
     
  6. Bill Wheeler

    Bill Wheeler Guest

    On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 15:06:30 -0500, "The Nelson Paradigm"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >I greased 'em.
    >
    >Yep, I did it.
    [snip]

    I've never grease them, but just yesterday I came across a note in "Zinn And the Art of MTB
    Maintenance"

    It said something to the effect that you shouldn't grease them because the grease could cause the
    cranks to slide too far on which could cause the square hole to become distorted....something to
    this effect anyway.

    Peace, Bill

    The mind serves properly as a window glass rather than as a reflector, that is, the mind should give
    an immediate view instead of an interpretation of the world.
    :-]
     
  7. "Bill Wheeler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 15:06:30 -0500, "The Nelson Paradigm" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >I greased 'em.
    > >
    > >Yep, I did it.
    > [snip]
    >
    > I've never grease them, but just yesterday I came across a note in "Zinn And the Art of MTB
    > Maintenance"
    >
    > It said something to the effect that you shouldn't grease them because the grease could cause the
    > cranks to slide too far on which could cause the square hole to become distorted....something to
    > this effect anyway.

    Which is a great myth.

    Something that blubberpuss believed with all of his being until he recently found a smidgen of
    common sense.
     
  8. Mark Hickey

    Mark Hickey Guest

    Bill Wheeler <[email protected]> wrote:

    >I've never grease them, but just yesterday I came across a note in "Zinn And the Art of MTB
    >Maintenance"
    >
    >It said something to the effect that you shouldn't grease them because the grease could cause the
    >cranks to slide too far on which could cause the square hole to become distorted....something to
    >this effect anyway.

    The only thing stopping that from happening would be the laws of physics. The myth started when some
    well-meaning person noticed that the crank bolts seemed to be "looser" after reach ride, and
    tightened them up to spec after each ride. That WILL eventually split a crank, whether greased or
    not - it'll just do it sooner if you grease the crank.

    Of course, it's a bit like comparing the wisdom of hitting yourself in the head with a steel hammer
    or an aluminum hammer. Because the aluminum hammer does somewhat less damage doesn't mean it's a
    better hammer.

    Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame
     
  9. Super Slinky

    Super Slinky Guest

    The Nelson Paradigm said...

    > No. Hasn't come up yet. Everyone I know who has RF stuff has gone ISIS. I may if I can't get ahold
    > of a RF 110/74 Turbine LP with square taper, but that will be moot until I decide to make the
    > upgrade.

    Why not go for the X-type? Shimano and Race Face are going in that direction. And replacement
    bearings for the new style cranks will be mercifully cheap and more durable to boot.
     
  10. Shawn Curry

    Shawn Curry Guest

    Bill Wheeler wrote:
    > On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 15:06:30 -0500, "The Nelson Paradigm" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>I greased 'em.
    >>
    >>Yep, I did it.
    >
    > [snip]
    >
    > I've never grease them, but just yesterday I came across a note in "Zinn And the Art of MTB
    > Maintenance"
    >
    > It said something to the effect that you shouldn't grease them because the grease could cause the
    > cranks to slide too far on which could cause the square hole to become distorted....something to
    > this effect anyway.
    >
    > Peace, Bill
    >
    Damn, I respected Leonard since I was in high school...Shot to hell
     
  11. Jd

    Jd Guest

    Shawn Curry <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]_s52>...
    > Bill Wheeler wrote:
    > > On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 15:06:30 -0500, "The Nelson Paradigm" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > >
    > >>I greased 'em.
    > >>
    > >>Yep, I did it.
    > >
    > > [snip]
    > >
    > > I've never grease them, but just yesterday I came across a note in "Zinn And the Art of MTB
    > > Maintenance"
    > >
    > > It said something to the effect that you shouldn't grease them because the grease could cause
    > > the cranks to slide too far on which could cause the square hole to become
    > > distorted....something to this effect anyway.
    > >
    > > Peace, Bill
    > >
    > Damn, I respected Leonard since I was in high school...Shot to hell

    Yeah, Lynyrd Skynyrd was pretty cool.

    JD
     
  12. Rocketman

    Rocketman Guest

    "p e t e f a g e r l i n" <[email protected]> wrote in
    message news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Bill Wheeler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 15:06:30 -0500, "The Nelson Paradigm" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > > >I greased 'em.
    > > >
    > > >Yep, I did it.
    > > [snip]
    > >
    > > I've never grease them, but just yesterday I came across a note in "Zinn And the Art of MTB
    > > Maintenance"
    > >
    > > It said something to the effect that you shouldn't grease them because the grease could cause
    > > the cranks to slide too far on which could cause the square hole to become
    > > distorted....something to this effect anyway.

    Disclaimer: I don't profess to care which is the "correct" method, greasing or not-greasing square
    tapered BB's. I've tried both, on many different bikes. Here is what I've found:

    It requires less torque to get the cranks sufficiently "snugged" onto a greased BB taper than a non-
    greased one. I used a well-maintained click-type torque wrench for measurements.

    To test the effects of greased tapers, I used varying degrees of torque on a set of old cranks:
    first on a non-greased BB spindle, then on a greased spindle. The same somewhat-excessive torque
    applied to the greased taper pushed the cranks significantly further up the spindle - eventually
    causing visible crank hole deformation. So far I have not experienced crank loosening after greasing
    BB spindles and/or crank bolts.

    Note: I also greased the crank bolt threads and flanges, which *does* make a difference in torque
    readings for a given BB spindle depth in crank hole.

    As long as I didn't overtorque them, greasing bolts and spindles has quieted creaky Ti BB spindles
    for me in the past. Also, I've never had a greased bolt or spindle seize up (which is a problem with
    Ti spindles, due to galvanic corrosive bonding). I have had trouble removing cranks from non-greased
    BB spindles, in some cases requiring a 2 ft long pipe on the end of my trusty Park crank extractor
    tool to get the darned crank arms broken loose.

    Those are my findings, and I'm going to stand by them. Has anyone else here actually conducted such
    an experiment? What were your findings?

    > Which is a great myth.

    That's my question: Which is a great myth?

    Rocketman
     
  13. Shawn Curry

    Shawn Curry Guest

    JD wrote:

    > Shawn Curry <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]_s52>...
    >
    >>Bill Wheeler wrote:
    >>
    >>>On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 15:06:30 -0500, "The Nelson Paradigm" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>I greased 'em.
    >>>>
    >>>>Yep, I did it.
    >>>
    >>>[snip]
    >>>
    >>>I've never grease them, but just yesterday I came across a note in "Zinn And the Art of MTB
    >>>Maintenance"
    >>>
    >>>It said something to the effect that you shouldn't grease them because the grease could cause the
    >>>cranks to slide too far on which could cause the square hole to become distorted....something to
    >>>this effect anyway.
    >>>
    >>>Peace, Bill
    >>>
    >>
    >> Damn, I respected Leonard since I was in high school...Shot to hell
    >
    >
    > Yeah, Lynyrd Skynyrd was pretty cool.

    FREEBIRD!!!!!!

    That was Jr. High though.
     
  14. G.T.

    G.T. Guest

    p e t e f a g e r l i n wrote:
    > "Bill Wheeler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >
    >>On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 15:06:30 -0500, "The Nelson Paradigm" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>I greased 'em.
    >>>
    >>>Yep, I did it.
    >>
    >>[snip]
    >>
    >>I've never grease them, but just yesterday I came across a note in "Zinn And the Art of MTB
    >>Maintenance"
    >>
    >>It said something to the effect that you shouldn't grease them because the grease could cause the
    >>cranks to slide too far on which could cause the square hole to become distorted....something to
    >>this effect anyway.
    >
    >
    > Which is a great myth.
    >

    Pete's not elaborating here. The crank does slide on farther which is fine because on a greased BB
    taper the crank will consistently slide to the same spot, something that doesn't happen when it's
    not greased.

    What causes the square hole to distort is for the crank to come loose. Or for it to walk up the
    taper from tightening it, riding it, tightening it, riding it, and so on.

    Greg
     
  15. Bb

    Bb Guest

    On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 04:23:33 GMT, G.T. wrote:

    > What causes the square hole to distort is for the crank to come loose. Or for it to walk up the
    > taper from tightening it, riding it, tightening it, riding it, and so on.

    And that will make you cross over to the dark side? Damn, that's scary.

    --
    -BB- To reply to me, drop the attitude (from my e-mail address, at least)
     
  16. G.T.

    G.T. Guest

    Rocketman wrote:
    > "p e t e f a g e r l i n" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >
    >>"Bill Wheeler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>news:[email protected]...
    >>
    >>>On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 15:06:30 -0500, "The Nelson Paradigm" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>I greased 'em.
    >>>>
    >>>>Yep, I did it.
    >>>
    >>>[snip]
    >>>
    >>>I've never grease them, but just yesterday I came across a note in "Zinn And the Art of MTB
    >>>Maintenance"
    >>>
    >>>It said something to the effect that you shouldn't grease them because the grease could cause the
    >>>cranks to slide too far on which could cause the square hole to become distorted....something to
    >>>this effect anyway.
    >
    >
    > Disclaimer: I don't profess to care which is the "correct" method, greasing or not-greasing square
    > tapered BB's. I've tried both, on many different bikes. Here is what I've found:
    >
    > It requires less torque to get the cranks sufficiently "snugged" onto a greased BB taper than a
    > non-greased one. I used a well-maintained click-type torque wrench for measurements.
    >

    There is no "snug". You need to torque to the right spec whether it's greased or not.

    > To test the effects of greased tapers, I used varying degrees of torque on a set of old cranks:
    > first on a non-greased BB spindle, then on a greased spindle. The same somewhat-excessive torque
    > applied to the greased taper pushed the cranks significantly further up the spindle - eventually
    > causing visible crank hole deformation. So far I have not experienced crank loosening after
    > greasing BB spindles and/or crank bolts.
    >
    > Note: I also greased the crank bolt threads and flanges, which *does* make a difference in torque
    > readings for a given BB spindle depth in crank hole.
    >
    > As long as I didn't overtorque them, greasing bolts and spindles has quieted creaky Ti BB spindles
    > for me in the past.

    Why would overtorquing cause a creak?

    Greg
     
  17. Mark Hickey

    Mark Hickey Guest

    BB <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 04:23:33 GMT, G.T. wrote:
    >
    >> What causes the square hole to distort is for the crank to come loose. Or for it to walk up the
    >> taper from tightening it, riding it, tightening it, riding it, and so on.
    >
    >And that will make you cross over to the dark side? Damn, that's scary.

    Yeah, 'cuz your bike will be broken and you'll have to start walking everywhere. You saw what that
    did to our resident troll...

    Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame
     
  18. Bomba

    Bomba Guest

    On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 01:17:31 +0000, Rocketman wrote:

    > To test the effects of greased tapers, I used varying degrees of torque on a set of old cranks:
    > first on a non-greased BB spindle, then on a greased spindle. The same somewhat-excessive torque
    > applied to the greased taper pushed the cranks significantly further up the spindle - eventually
    > causing visible crank hole deformation. So far I have not experienced crank loosening after
    > greasing BB spindles and/or crank bolts.
    >
    > Note: I also greased the crank bolt threads and flanges, which *does* make a difference in torque
    > readings for a given BB spindle depth in crank hole.

    The long winter nights must just fly by...

    --
    a.m-b FAQ: http://www.j-harris.net/bike/ambfaq.htm

    b.bmx FAQ: http://www.t-online.de/~jharris/bmx_faq.htm
     
  19. Bill Wheeler

    Bill Wheeler Guest

    On 1 Mar 2004 17:16:14 -0800, [email protected] (JD) wrote:

    >Shawn Curry <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:<[email protected]_s52>...
    >> Bill Wheeler wrote:
    >> > On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 15:06:30 -0500, "The Nelson Paradigm" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >>I greased 'em.
    >> >>
    >> >>Yep, I did it.
    >> >
    >> > [snip]
    >> >
    >> > I've never grease them, but just yesterday I came across a note in "Zinn And the Art of MTB
    >> > Maintenance"
    >> >
    >> > It said something to the effect that you shouldn't grease them because the grease could cause
    >> > the cranks to slide too far on which could cause the square hole to become
    >> > distorted....something to this effect anyway.
    >> >
    >> > Peace, Bill
    >> >
    >> Damn, I respected Leonard since I was in high school...Shot to hell
    >
    >Yeah, Lynyrd Skynyrd was pretty cool.
    >
    >JD
    ..can't ya smell that smell?

    Peace, Bill The mind serves properly as a window glass rather than as a reflector, that is, the mind
    should give an immediate view instead of an interpretation of the world.
    :-]
     
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