I kinda knew I was too heavy...

[Tom Kunich]

Body build doesn't mean a whole lot in Cat 4, 5 racing. By the time you make Cat 3 it starts to make
a difference and above that you have to specialize a bit for your type of racing.

"Raptor" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Dashi Toshii wrote:
> > "Raptor" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >
> >>I finally made my way into a CatV race, the Sugarhouse Park Crit.
45
> >>minutes with three finishing laps. The course was freshly paved,
about
> >>1.3 mile laps. The park has a pond in a basin, so each lap has
two
> >>50-foot climbs. I've been working out hard and gained 5 pounds to
185
> >>in the last six months.
> >
> >
> > You didn't say how tall you are but if you are 6 foot or over you
need to
> > lose another 15 pounds to 20 pounds.
> >
> > If less than 6 feet than you will need to lose a lot more weight.
> >
> > Dashii (6' 1" 166 pounds)
>
> I'm 5'10". My body composition is pretty good, I'm just very beefy
for
> a bike racer, especially one trying to go up hills. I can go up
hills
> much faster than I have in the past, but it's real hard hanging with
the
> flyweights.
>
> ("Real hard" = "impossible" at least at this point. I'm willing to
hear
> if it's true that it's virtually impossible for someone with my
build to
> keep up on hills, but losing weight isn't that much of a priority
for
> me. My build is big but looks pretty good IMO. I'd rather suck at
bike
> racing, I think.)
>
> --
> --
> Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
> could to
protect
> our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in charge of
> Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

 

[Tom Kunich]

1) You are likely to improve pretty fast if you could stay as close as you did. It is the intervals
that get you. Your top speed won't improve much to begin with but you'll be able to accelerate
more often without blowing out the back.

2) The hardest Cat 4, 5 racing skill to learn is who to trust in the pack and who not to. Better to
be really untrusting and keep all of your skin than the reverse.

3) After you can ride on or near the front you can worry about tactics and strategy. Again I'll
suggest you find a local racing club to ride with since they can teach you more in a year than
you can learn by yourself in 5.

"Raptor" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Thanks everyone for the advice. It makes sense.
>
> I just wasn't ready to mingle closely with the peloton. I'm smooth enough on my bike but I'm not
> used to close quarters. Hanging off
the
> back was as much a service to my fellow riders as it was for my
sense of
> safety.
>
> I think I'll do practice races as my main training (as well as the
usual
> long solo "pleasure" rides). I'll get the interval/speed work and
get
> better at riding in the peloton in due time.
>
> I can't say I'm surprised at what happened, just a bit bummed. My strength (cruising speed) led me
> to believe I could do better.
>
> --
> --
> Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
> could to
protect
> our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in charge of
> Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

 

[Mike S.]

"Kyle Legate" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Raptor wrote:
> >
> > I did fine dangling off the back for about six laps,...
> >
> snip
> > Then the announcer runs two prime laps close together and suddenly the peloton is 30 yards ahead
> > and I realize I'm done. I dangled for one more lap before I was pulled.
> >
> > Looks like I need more speed work....
> >
> It looks like you need to not dangle off the back of the pack. That's not smart racing.
>
>
As a follow on: how do you expect to win when you're dangling OTB??

Why race if you're not trying to win? There's less expensive ways to get your ass kicked on the
weekend if you just want a hard workout!

Mike

 

[Deeznuts]

"Dashi Toshii" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<KxqEa.102556$M01.53351@sccrnsc02>...
> "Raptor" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > I finally made my way into a CatV race, the Sugarhouse Park Crit. 45 minutes with three
> > finishing laps. The course was freshly paved, about
> > 1.3 mile laps. The park has a pond in a basin, so each lap has two 50-foot climbs. I've been
> > working out hard and gained 5 pounds to 185 in the last six months.
>
> You didn't say how tall you are but if you are 6 foot or over you need to lose another 15 pounds
> to 20 pounds.
>
> If less than 6 feet than you will need to lose a lot more weight.
>
> Dashii (6' 1" 166 pounds)

I nominate this for worst RBR advice of all time.

Deez

 

[Dashi Toshii]

"Deeznuts" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Dashi Toshii" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<KxqEa.102556$M01.53351@sccrnsc02>...
> > "Raptor" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > > I finally made my way into a CatV race, the Sugarhouse Park Crit. 45 minutes with three
> > > finishing laps. The course was freshly paved,
about
> > > 1.3 mile laps. The park has a pond in a basin, so each lap has two 50-foot climbs. I've been
> > > working out hard and gained 5 pounds to 185 in the last six months.
> >
> > You didn't say how tall you are but if you are 6 foot or over you need
to
> > lose another 15 pounds to 20 pounds.
> >
> > If less than 6 feet than you will need to lose a lot more weight.
> >
> > Dashii (6' 1" 166 pounds)
>
> I nominate this for worst RBR advice of all time.

Of course YOU do, you are fat and don't want to do anything about it.

Fat people need excuses and you just found another one.

Dashii

 

[Kurgan Gringion]

"Dashi Toshii" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:qd5Fa.1186024$S_4.1209028@rwcrnsc53...
>
> "Deeznuts" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > "Dashi Toshii" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<KxqEa.102556$M01.53351@sccrnsc02>...
> > > "Raptor" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > > > I finally made my way into a CatV race, the Sugarhouse Park Crit.
45
> > > > minutes with three finishing laps. The course was freshly paved,
> about
> > > > 1.3 mile laps. The park has a pond in a basin, so each lap has two 50-foot climbs. I've been
> > > > working out hard and gained 5 pounds to
185
> > > > in the last six months.
> > >
> > > You didn't say how tall you are but if you are 6 foot or over you need
> to
> > > lose another 15 pounds to 20 pounds.
> > >
> > > If less than 6 feet than you will need to lose a lot more weight.
> > >
> > > Dashii (6' 1" 166 pounds)
> >
> > I nominate this for worst RBR advice of all time.
>
> Of course YOU do, you are fat and don't want to do anything about it.
>
> Fat people need excuses and you just found another one.

Not all Fatties need excuses.

Some (very few) simply say: I choose to be fat.

You are mostly correct though - Fatties are generally not honest about their own motivation.

 

[Jeff Potter]

I think if our guy learns to relax and ride in the top 20 then he's fine in a flat crit even if
6' 180 lbs.

Much more than that then the normal turn jumps will wear on ya even if you're near the front, I
suspect. And certainly in hilly events you'll be toast.

I'm exploring the various sensations of riding hard at 175-195 lbs and 6'. It's not pretty at the
higher range and it's downright ugly in the hills. At 175 you're getting happy. All the way down to
155 sounds happier and happier even in the crits, I'd think.

I'm going to see 175 this summer or else!

I just bottled 10 gallons of primo extra-hopped cracked malt pilsner, so 10 pounds it is!

--

Jeff Potter
****
*Out Your Backdoor * http://www.outyourbackdoor.com for modern folkways and culture revival...
...offering "small world" views on bikes, bows, skis, books, movies... ...new books featuring: XC
ski culture, a thriller about small town drug smuggling, and folding bicycles ... radical novels
coming up! ...lots more books, downloadable music and videos ... articles galore! plus national "Off
the Beaten Path" travel forums! HOLY SMOKES!

 

[Scott Downie]

I don't have any trouble finishing Cat 5 flat crits at 6'1' 230. Cant hang in a 4/5 race, except fot
4-5 training races. In the real races the young cat 4 looking for points to upgrade just kill me. Oh
yeah I'm 44 also... Old and Fat. Well not real fat. 19% just big boned Haha How much does
M.Nothstein weight ?

--
Irrationally held truths may be more harmfull than reasoned errors. "Jeff Potter"
<[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> I think if our guy learns to relax and ride in the top 20 then he's fine
in a
> flat crit even if 6' 180 lbs.
>
> Much more than that then the normal turn jumps will wear on ya even if
you're
> near the front, I suspect. And certainly in hilly events you'll be toast.
>
> I'm exploring the various sensations of riding hard at 175-195 lbs and 6'. It's not pretty at the
> higher range and it's downright ugly in the hills.
At
> 175 you're getting happy. All the way down to 155 sounds happier and
happier
> even in the crits, I'd think.
>
> I'm going to see 175 this summer or else!
>
> I just bottled 10 gallons of primo extra-hopped cracked malt pilsner, so
10
> pounds it is!
>
> --
>
> Jeff Potter
> ****
> *Out Your Backdoor * http://www.outyourbackdoor.com for modern folkways and culture revival...
> ...offering "small world" views on bikes, bows, skis, books, movies... ...new books featuring: XC
> ski culture, a thriller about small town drug smuggling, and folding bicycles ... radical novels
> coming up! ...lots more books, downloadable music and videos ... articles galore! plus national
> "Off the Beaten Path" travel forums! HOLY SMOKES!

 

[Warren]

In article <qd5Fa.1186024$S_4.1209028@rwcrnsc53>, Dashi Toshii <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Deeznuts" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > "Dashi Toshii" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<KxqEa.102556$M01.53351@sccrnsc02>...
> > > "Raptor" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > > > I finally made my way into a CatV race, the Sugarhouse Park Crit. 45 minutes with three
> > > > finishing laps. The course was freshly paved,
> about
> > > > 1.3 mile laps. The park has a pond in a basin, so each lap has two 50-foot climbs. I've been
> > > > working out hard and gained 5 pounds to 185 in the last six months.
> > >
> > > You didn't say how tall you are but if you are 6 foot or over you need
> to
> > > lose another 15 pounds to 20 pounds.
> > >
> > > If less than 6 feet than you will need to lose a lot more weight.
> > >
> > > Dashii (6' 1" 166 pounds)
> >
> > I nominate this for worst RBR advice of all time.
>
> Of course YOU do, you are fat and don't want to do anything about it.
>
> Fat people need excuses and you just found another one.
>
> Dashii

Mebbe so. Weight and height aren't very accurate predictors of how much weight a person should
lose or gain.

I"m 6'5" and my LBM is 184lbs.

-WG

 

[Tom Kunich]

"warren" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:090620031631067445%[email protected]...
> In article <qd5Fa.1186024$S_4.1209028@rwcrnsc53>, Dashi Toshii <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > "Deeznuts" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > "Dashi Toshii" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:<KxqEa.102556$M01.53351@sccrnsc02>...
> > > > "Raptor" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > > > I finally made my way into a CatV race, the Sugarhouse Park
Crit. 45
> > > > > minutes with three finishing laps. The course was freshly
paved,
> > about
> > > > > 1.3 mile laps. The park has a pond in a basin, so each lap
has two
> > > > > 50-foot climbs. I've been working out hard and gained 5
pounds to 185
> > > > > in the last six months.
> > > >
> > > > You didn't say how tall you are but if you are 6 foot or over
you need
> > to
> > > > lose another 15 pounds to 20 pounds.
> > > >
> > > > If less than 6 feet than you will need to lose a lot more
weight.
> > > >
> > > > Dashii (6' 1" 166 pounds)
> > >
> > > I nominate this for worst RBR advice of all time.
> >
> > Of course YOU do, you are fat and don't want to do anything about
it.
> >
> > Fat people need excuses and you just found another one.
> >
> > Dashii
>
> Mebbe so. Weight and height aren't very accurate predictors of how
much
> weight a person should lose or gain.
>
> I"m 6'5" and my LBM is 184lbs.

Are you counting the 30 kilos of fat outside of the LBM?

 

[Deeznuts]

"Dashi Toshii" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<qd5Fa.1186024$S_4.1209028@rwcrnsc53>...
> "Deeznuts" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > "Dashi Toshii" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<KxqEa.102556$M01.53351@sccrnsc02>...
> > > "Raptor" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > > > I finally made my way into a CatV race, the Sugarhouse Park Crit. 45 minutes with three
> > > > finishing laps. The course was freshly paved,
> about
> > > > 1.3 mile laps. The park has a pond in a basin, so each lap has two 50-foot climbs. I've been
> > > > working out hard and gained 5 pounds to 185 in the last six months.
> > >
> > > You didn't say how tall you are but if you are 6 foot or over you need
> to
> > > lose another 15 pounds to 20 pounds.
> > >
> > > If less than 6 feet than you will need to lose a lot more weight.
> > >
> > > Dashii (6' 1" 166 pounds)
> >
> > I nominate this for worst RBR advice of all time.
>
> Of course YOU do, you are fat and don't want to do anything about it.
>
> Fat people need excuses and you just found another one.
>
> Dashii

I AM NOT FAT!!!!!!!! I am 5' 8" and 235 lbs. I have had a kidney disease and just got out of the
hospital!!! I am training and getting SUPER FAST! I do not have time to DIET or EXERCISE because I
do not have a TRUST FUND. Bring your skinny ass to EL CAJONE this weekend and we will throw
down!!!!!!!!

Deez

 

[Lee]

"warren" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:090620031631067445%[email protected]...
>
> I"m 6'5" and my LBM is 184lbs.
>

LBM - Last Bowel Movement?

Lee (ducking)

 

[Warren]

In article <[email protected]>, Lee <[email protected]> wrote:

> "warren" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:090620031631067445%[email protected]...
> >
> > I"m 6'5" and my LBM is 184lbs.
> >
>
> LBM - Last Bowel Movement?
>
>
> Lee (ducking)

I'm feeling much better now.

-WG

LBM=Lean Body Mass=0% bodyfat

 

[Suz]

">
> Mebbe so. Weight and height aren't very accurate predictors of how much weight a person should
> lose or gain.
>
Nor how successful they will be in racing. I race with gals who outweigh me by 20 pounds or more who
can kick my ass in crits and can hang with me in the hills (at least the shorter hills), and girls
much lighter who can't climb or TT anywhere near as fast as me (yet can sometimes beat me in crits).
It's all about fitness, skills, individual strengths and weaknesses, and power to weight ratio, more
than weight alone. But many of the best crit racers I know are bigger guys/ gals.

Suz

 

[Jaques Frirac]

Raptor,

The one thing I would suggest to you (nevermind all the weight and all that people are going to tell
you) is to ride more towards the front. You said you can hang on to the back for 6 laps or so.

That is the worst place to be, you have surges and people attacking and chasing and the back gets it
the worst. You could do yourself a favor and join a local club so you are doing group rides and
getting comfortable in a pack. Or during the races each time move farther up, start concentrating on
being in the first half of the pack instead of the back, then try staying in top third or so. You
will find it much easier effort wise to stay in the field that way.

As soon as you do some riding like that your confidence will go up and you will how much effort
you are saving, if you are saying the right number that you can ride 23-24 on a good day and that
is flat or rolling terrain then you have more than enough power to stay in the field and finish
cat 5,4,3 races. You probably just need to develop your group riding skills and ride towards the
front more.

Hope that helps,

Rope

"Raptor" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> I finally made my way into a CatV race, the Sugarhouse Park Crit. 45 minutes with three finishing
> laps. The course was freshly paved, about
> 1.3 mile laps. The park has a pond in a basin, so each lap has two 50-foot climbs. I've been
> working out hard and gained 5 pounds to 185 in the last six months.
>
> Since I can do 23-24mph solo on a good day, I thought I might be okay. Then, "Oh yeah, I remember
> this..." from 15 years ago, the last time I raced. All these speed freaks take turns burning
> themselves up, resulting in a very hot pace from start to finish.
>
> I did fine dangling off the back for about six laps, casually letting the draft pull me along the
> downhills and flats, and rather easily sprinting up the climbs to catch up. There was one time
> where the course tightens up and a couple guys in the middle got squirly, but no crashes.
>
> Then the announcer runs two prime laps close together and suddenly the peloton is 30 yards ahead
> and I realize I'm done. I dangled for one more lap before I was pulled.
>
> Looks like I need more speed work. I'm trying to decide whether to do structured interval training
> on my own, or participate in more weekly training races to get that high-pace recovery capacity
> going. Or should I join a local team and ride with 'em?
>
> --
> --
> Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
> could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP
> in charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

 

[Jaques Frirac]

That's great - The LBM of my penis alone is 184lb

They call me rope,

Jacques

"warren" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:090620031631067445%[email protected]...
> In article <qd5Fa.1186024$S_4.1209028@rwcrnsc53>, Dashi Toshii <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > "Deeznuts" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > "Dashi Toshii" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:<KxqEa.102556$M01.53351@sccrnsc02>...
> > > > "Raptor" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > > > I finally made my way into a CatV race, the Sugarhouse Park Crit.
45
> > > > > minutes with three finishing laps. The course was freshly paved,
> > about
> > > > > 1.3 mile laps. The park has a pond in a basin, so each lap has
two
> > > > > 50-foot climbs. I've been working out hard and gained 5 pounds to
185
> > > > > in the last six months.
> > > >
> > > > You didn't say how tall you are but if you are 6 foot or over you
need
> > to
> > > > lose another 15 pounds to 20 pounds.
> > > >
> > > > If less than 6 feet than you will need to lose a lot more weight.
> > > >
> > > > Dashii (6' 1" 166 pounds)
> > >
> > > I nominate this for worst RBR advice of all time.
> >
> > Of course YOU do, you are fat and don't want to do anything about it.
> >
> > Fat people need excuses and you just found another one.
> >
> > Dashii
>
> Mebbe so. Weight and height aren't very accurate predictors of how much weight a person should
> lose or gain.
>
> I"m 6'5" and my LBM is 184lbs.
>
> -WG

 

[Us]

Dude I've been out of So Cal for 20 years but still know how to spell El Cajon, but then as a beach
kid I was aware of the fact that there was no intelligent life east of I-5.

Focus that anger/energy and go get fit...

Yelling at these guys won't help they just laugh.... HARDER!

awaiting uncouth reply.....

 

[Jeff Potter]

The old "go off the front before the climbs" works for fatties if the heels are big but not too big.

It worked for me two years ago. This year I forgot to do it---overconfident, too rusty---and off the
back I went.

Man, there is plenty of gear-planning details for a complex course. Anyone has to get them dialed in
to not overly suffer. Small differences add up hugely.

Like, when a fattie rolls up a hill ahead of everyone should he roll his flatland gear as far as
possible in the saddle then stand up, or go for bigger gear and stand up earlier then sit down as he
fades thru the passing pack, bringing up tempo over the top to catch the back. Botching this series
will spell the end of that particular event, giving you a chance to figure it out better next time.

I recall that being in the right gear out of corners in crits was essential, in addition to being
near the front, even back when I was skinny. Shift down a notch before the corner. Otherwise too
much lactic coming out of corners and results go way down. Small things matter. They matter even
more to fatties! --That's a good race tip, I think: shift down a gear in crits before flat corners.

--

Jeff Potter
****
*Out Your Backdoor * http://www.outyourbackdoor.com for modern folkways and culture revival...
...offering "small world" views on bikes, bows, skis, books, movies... ...new books featuring: XC
ski culture, a thriller about small town drug smuggling, and folding bicycles ... radical novels
coming up! ...lots more books, downloadable music and videos ... articles galore! plus national "Off
the Beaten Path" travel forums! HOLY SMOKES!