I need your professsional guess, Ferritin Iron reduction results.

Discussion in 'Food and nutrition' started by Mikefbolen, Oct 1, 2003.

  1. Mikefbolen

    Mikefbolen Guest

    My recent blood test (9-8-2003) indicated a Ferritin level of 192.2. According to Mercola.com for
    optimum health Ferritin level should be 100 or lower. I plan to take another blood test on
    12-8-2003. I am taking 3200 mg IP6 and 400 mg of EDTA and plan to do so until the 12-8-2003 blood
    test. What is your guess my Ferritin level will be at that time. Not sure if IP6 (inositol
    hexaphosphate) and EDTA really work or just marketing hype. Mercola.com and BillSardi.com recommends
    IP6 for iron reduction.

    I appreciate your best guess.

    Mike

    No other changes in diet or vitamin intake, except 200 mg of Alpha Lipoic Acid.
     
    Tags:


  2. Once upon a time, our fellow Mikefbolen rambled on about "I need your professsional guess, Ferritin
    Iron reduction results.." Our champion De-Medicalizing in sci.med.nutrition retorts, thusly ...

    > No other changes in diet or vitamin intake, except 200 mg of Alpha Lipoic Acid.

    You might be interested in knowing that the half-life of Alpha Lipoic Acid is around 20 to
    30 minutes.

    That means the Alpha Lipoic Acid will dissappear from your blood within a half-hour. So, it is
    really pointless to supplement with Alpha Lipoic Acid unless you are taking it in some of kind of
    time release form.
    --
    John Gohde, Achieving good Nutrition is an Art, NOT a Science!

    The nutrition of eating a healthy diet is the foundation of the biomedical model of natural health.
    Weighing in at 17 webpages, Nutrition (http://www.Food.NaturalHealthPerspective.com/) is now with
    more documentation and sharper terminology than ever before.
     
  3. Mikefbolen wrote:

    > My recent blood test (9-8-2003) indicated a Ferritin level of 192.2. According to Mercola.com for
    > optimum health Ferritin level should be 100 or lower. I plan to take another blood test on
    > 12-8-2003. I am taking 3200 mg IP6 and 400 mg of EDTA and plan to do so until the 12-8-2003 blood
    > test. What is your guess my Ferritin level will be at that time. Not sure if IP6 (inositol
    > hexaphosphate) and EDTA really work or just marketing hype. Mercola.com and BillSardi.com
    > recommends IP6 for iron reduction.
    >
    >
    > I appreciate your best guess.
    >
    > Mike
    >
    > No other changes in diet or vitamin intake, except 200 mg of Alpha Lipoic Acid.

    Miguel.."ferritin" can be elevated IF you have some "INFLAMATORY" process going on in the
    body! Feritin can be as high as 300 with little harm ..but it should be looked into..B-0b1
     
  4. John, you assume the plasma biological half life is the same as the intracellular half life. An
    assumption that is almost certainly wrong.......the non-geek in me says certainly wrong. It is
    produced with the cells in small amounts. Did Lester Packer and crew use time release alpha-lipoic
    acid? You have his popular book:) an you've mentioned it in the past.

    "John 'the Man'" <DeMan[104]@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Once upon a time, our fellow Mikefbolen rambled on about "I need your professsional guess,
    > Ferritin Iron reduction results.." Our champion De-Medicalizing in sci.med.nutrition retorts,
    > thusly ...
    >
    > > No other changes in diet or vitamin intake, except 200 mg of Alpha Lipoic Acid.
    >
    > You might be interested in knowing that the half-life of Alpha Lipoic Acid is around 20 to 30
    > minutes.
    >
    > That means the Alpha Lipoic Acid will dissappear from your blood within a half-hour. So, it is
    > really pointless to supplement with Alpha Lipoic Acid unless you are taking it in some of kind of
    > time release form.
    > --
    > John Gohde, Achieving good Nutrition is an Art, NOT a Science!
    >
    > The nutrition of eating a healthy diet is the foundation of the biomedical model of natural
    > health. Weighing in at 17 webpages, Nutrition (http://www.Food.NaturalHealthPerspective.com/) is
    > now with more documentation and sharper terminology than ever before.
     
  5. Dan R.

    Dan R. Guest

    John 'the Man' <DeMan[104]@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > Once upon a time, our fellow Mikefbolen rambled on about "I need your professsional guess,
    > Ferritin Iron reduction results.." Our champion De-Medicalizing in sci.med.nutrition retorts,
    > thusly ...
    >
    > > No other changes in diet or vitamin intake, except 200 mg of Alpha Lipoic Acid.
    >
    > You might be interested in knowing that the half-life of Alpha Lipoic Acid is around 20 to 30
    > minutes.
    >
    > That means the Alpha Lipoic Acid will dissappear from your blood within a half-hour. So, it is
    > really pointless to supplement with Alpha Lipoic Acid unless you are taking it in some of kind of
    > time release form.

    That's not what this study says:

    Free Radic Biol Med 1998 Sep;25(4-5):473-9 A practical assay of lipoate in biologic fluids and liver
    in health and disease.

    Baker H, Deangelis B, Baker ER, Hutner SH Department of Preventive Medicine and Community Health,
    University of Medicine & Dentistry of New Jersey, New Jersey Medical School, Newark 07107, USA.

    A procedure for assaying lipoic acid concentration in biologic fluids and tissues was devised....
    Absorption chartings of 200 mg of DL-alpha-lipoic acid in humans indicate a peak concentration of
    lipoate in plasma 2 h after ingestion and then a steady descent of lipoate to a baseline level after
    24 h. With this practical assay, it is now possible to chart lipoate's antioxidant activity and
    therapeutic action during health and disease.
     
  6. Mark Thorson

    Mark Thorson Guest

    New York Times July 25, 2000 Letters to the Editor

    To the Editor:

    RE: Forever Ending Blood Shortages

    The entire country, and particularly the New York Metropolitan area, is suffering from a
    worse-than-usual annual July-August severe donor blood shortage, made worse this year partly
    because the Food and Drug Administration now stipulates that anyone who spent six months or more
    from 1980 to 1996 in Great Britain is not allowed to donate blood, because of the rare possibility
    that the infectious agent of mad cow disease may be in some of the beef eaten in Great Britain
    during that period.

    The solution to the problem is simple. About 12% of all Americans (including about 20% of
    Irish-Americans and about 30% of Afro-Americans), for genetic reasons, are walking blood banks. They
    have blood iron so high that they should be making one or two blood donations per year to lower
    their high iron, so that it does not gradually build up in their body tissues and, in their 40’s and
    50’s, gradually produce diabetes, heart disease, liver disease, and arthritis. Most do not know they
    have this condition, called heterozygous hemochromatosis (genetic iron overload), because they have
    never had their blood iron measured. Unfortunately, measuring blood iron, which should be part of
    any routine blood testing because it is so often high, is rarely done, except by hematologists.

    Worse, about 1 in 12 of these folks have 2 of these genes (homozygous hemochromatosis). They develop
    toxic tissue iron levels more than twice as fast, and start getting severe organ damage in their
    20’s and 30’s. Every adult should insist that their blood iron be checked on any routine blood
    sample drawn for routine tests as part of a routine health exam, doctor visit, or clinic visit and,
    if it is high, donate blood to get it down to normal.

    Blood drawn to prevent or correct disease is called “therapeutic phlebotomy”, and the FDA has a
    blanket prohibition against using therapeutic phlebotomy blood as donor blood. However, any blood
    bank which wishes to use this perfectly good blood as donor blood can do so by getting a variance to
    do so from the FDA, simply by writing the FDA and promising not to charge the donor for phlebotomy,
    to test the blood for safety like any other donor blood, and to follow the recipient to be sure
    he/she gets no adverse effects from the donor blood (which good blood banking practice requires
    blood banks to do anyway, on any donated blood).

    Working with me, our Mount Sinai Blood Bank Director,
    Dr. Morton Spivack, has obtained such a variance from the FDA and from New York State. Anyone with
    hemochromatosis can get his/her therapeutic phlebotomies free of charge, and with our thanks, at
    our Blood Bank. All they need do is come in with a note from their physician stating that they
    have hemochromatosis and need therapeutic phlebotomy.

    Our friends and colleagues at the New York Blood Center are currently in process of getting the same
    variances we have, so they too can do these therapeutic phlebotomies free of charge, and use this
    excellent high-iron blood as donor blood. The majority of patients who need blood have lost blood
    and become iron-deficient, so high-iron blood is particularly good for them.

    The total need of the entire U.S. for donor blood as of now is about 13 million units per year. If
    the 12% of our population of about 180 million adults who are “walking blood banks” and need to give
    blood at least once a year to maintain their health did so, that would be almost 22 million units
    per year. Ideally, blood banks would no longer need to store blood. They would just keep a
    computerized register of their “walking blood banks”, and, when a patient needs blood, they would
    punch into the computer the patient’s blood type and cross match, print out the names of the
    compatible donors, and ask them to come in for their therapeutic phlebotomy.

    Sincerely, Victor Herbert, M.D., J.D., M.A.C.P., F.R.S.M.(London)

    For more information, see: http://www.victorherbert.com/hemochrom.htm
     
  7. Mattlb

    Mattlb Guest

    John 'the Man' 'wrote':
    >
    > Once upon a time, our fellow Mikefbolen rambled on about "I need your professsional guess,
    > Ferritin Iron reduction results.." Our champion De-Medicalizing in sci.med.nutrition retorts,
    > thusly ...
    >
    > > No other changes in diet or vitamin intake, except 200 mg of Alpha Lipoic Acid.
    >
    > You might be interested in knowing that the half-life of Alpha Lipoic Acid is around 20 to 30
    > minutes.

    And the half-life of insulin is about five minutes. So what?

    > That means the Alpha Lipoic Acid will dissappear from your blood within a half-hour.

    No, it means after half an hour there will be half as much as there was to begin with.

    MattLB
     
  8. Once upon a time, our fellow William A. Noyes rambled on about "Re: I need your professsional
    guess, Ferritin Iron reduction results.." Our champion De-Medicalizing in sci.med.nutrition
    retorts, thusly ...

    >you assume the plasma biological half life is the same as the intracellular half life.

    Gee, I would hardly call the plasma biological half life a minor problem.

    For vitamin C, significant levels of a 200mg IR dosage will hand around in your blood for up to 8
    hours. For gamma forms of vitamin E it is 12 hours. For alpha forms of vitamin E, it is recycled by
    the liver.

    Now, compare that with 20 minutes!

    Ha, ... Hah, Ha!

    You are really stretching it.

    Just my opinion. But, I am *right* as usual!
     
  9. Once upon a time, our fellow dan r. rambled on about "Re: I need your professsional guess, Ferritin
    Iron reduction results.." Our champion De-Medicalizing in sci.med.nutrition retorts, thusly ...

    >That's not what this study says:

    >Free Radic Biol Med 1998 Sep;25(4-5):473-9 A practical assay of lipoate in biologic fluids and
    >liver in health and disease.

    I am *not* a science geek, so I will refrain from making a detailed response.

    All nutritional supplements have a half-life. The half-life of Alpha Lipoic Acid is generally not
    disclosed. But, after a considerable amount of effort I was able to confirm that the half-life of
    Alpha Lipoic Acid is indeed only around 20-30 minutes.

    "Immediate-release a-lipoic acid has a half-life in plasma of approximately 30 minutes—clearing too
    rapidly to exert any significant effect on blood ... " www.vitaminexpress.com/prodinfo/lipoic.pdf

    Thus, either the half-life of Alpha Lipoic Acid has been revised, or that study is playing some kind
    of a word game. Perhaps, 'Lipoate's antioxidant activity' does not equate to the half-life of Alpha
    Lipoic Acid for some technical reason.

    By all means, Geeks, please show me the error of my ways.

    Just my opinion. But, I am *right* as usual!
     
  10. Doe

    Doe Guest

    >Subject: Re: I need your professsional guess, Ferritin Iron reduction results. From: Mark Thorson
    >[email protected] Date: 10/2/2003 1:51 PM Mountain Daylight Time Message-id:
    ><[email protected]>
    >

    <<snip>> 12% of all
    >Americans (including about 20% of Irish-Americans and about 30% of Afro-Americans), for genetic
    >reasons, are walking blood banks
    <<snip>>

    All together now .." holy crap .."

    That is like 1 in 5 .. eh .. 1 in 3 and who DOESN'T have a little Irish in them .. eh ..

    >New York Times July 25, 2000 Letters to the Editor
    >
    >To the Editor:
    >
    >RE: Forever Ending Blood Shortages
    >
    >The entire country, and particularly the New York Metropolitan area, is suffering from a
    >worse-than-usual annual July-August severe donor blood shortage, made worse this year partly
    >because the Food and Drug Administration now stipulates that anyone who spent six months or more
    >from 1980 to 1996 in Great Britain is not allowed to donate blood, because of the rare possibility
    >that the infectious agent of mad cow disease may be in some of the beef eaten in Great Britain
    >during that period.
    >
    >The solution to the problem is simple. About 12% of all Americans (including about 20% of
    >Irish-Americans and about 30% of Afro-Americans), for genetic reasons, are walking blood banks.
    >They have blood iron so high that they should be making one or two blood donations per year to
    >lower their high iron, so that it does not gradually build up in their body tissues and, in their
    >40’s and 50’s, gradually produce diabetes, heart disease, liver disease, and arthritis. Most do
    >not know they have this condition, called heterozygous hemochromatosis (genetic iron overload),
    >because they have never had their blood iron measured. Unfortunately, measuring blood iron, which
    >should be part of any routine blood testing because it is so often high, is rarely done, except by
    >hematologists.
    >
    >Worse, about 1 in 12 of these folks have 2 of these genes (homozygous hemochromatosis). They
    >develop toxic tissue iron levels more than twice as fast, and start getting severe organ damage in
    >their 20’s and 30’s. Every adult should insist that their blood iron be checked on any routine
    >blood sample drawn for routine tests as part of a routine health exam, doctor visit, or clinic
    >visit and, if it is high, donate blood to get it down to normal.
    >
    >Blood drawn to prevent or correct disease is called “therapeutic phlebotomy”, and the FDA has a
    >blanket prohibition against using therapeutic phlebotomy blood as donor blood. However, any blood
    >bank which wishes to use this perfectly good blood as donor blood can do so by getting a variance
    >to do so from the FDA, simply by writing the FDA and promising not to charge the donor for
    >phlebotomy, to test the blood for safety like any other donor blood, and to follow the recipient to
    >be sure he/she gets no adverse effects from the donor blood (which good blood banking practice
    >requires blood banks to do anyway, on any donated blood).
    >
    >Working with me, our Mount Sinai Blood Bank Director,
    >Dr. Morton Spivack, has obtained such a variance from the FDA and from New York State. Anyone with
    > hemochromatosis can get his/her therapeutic phlebotomies free of charge, and with our thanks,
    > at our Blood Bank. All they need do is come in with a note from their physician stating that
    > they have hemochromatosis and need therapeutic phlebotomy.
    >
    >Our friends and colleagues at the New York Blood Center are currently in process of getting the
    >same variances we have, so they too can do these therapeutic phlebotomies free of charge, and use
    >this excellent high-iron blood as donor blood. The majority of patients who need blood have lost
    >blood and become iron-deficient, so high-iron blood is particularly good for them.
    >
    >The total need of the entire U.S. for donor blood as of now is about 13 million units per year. If
    >the 12% of our population of about 180 million adults who are “walking blood banks” and need to
    >give blood at least once a year to maintain their health did so, that would be almost 22 million
    >units per year. Ideally, blood banks would no longer need to store blood. They would just keep a
    >computerized register of their “walking blood banks”, and, when a patient needs blood, they
    >would punch into the computer the patient’s blood type and cross match, print out the names of
    >the compatible donors, and ask them to come in for their therapeutic phlebotomy.
    >
    >Sincerely, Victor Herbert, M.D., J.D., M.A.C.P., F.R.S.M.(London)
    >
    >
    >
    >For more information, see: http://www.victorherbert.com/hemochrom.htm

    Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore!
    http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
    http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking
     
  11. Once upon a time, our fellow MattLB rambled on about "Re: I need your professsional guess, Ferritin
    Iron reduction results.." Our champion De-Medicalizing in sci.med.nutrition retorts, thusly ...

    >> That means the Alpha Lipoic Acid will dissappear from your blood within a half-hour.

    >No, it means after half an hour there will be half as much as there was to begin with.

    Quoting you: So what?

    After half an hour there will be half as much as there was to begin with, but with the gamma form of
    vitamin E after 12 hours there will be half as much as there was to begin with.

    Just thought that you might want to know. :)
     
  12. I read thru this rapidly and it seemed quite familiar. Then I looked at the date and the name. This
    is a post-humous posting.

    > Sincerely, Victor Herbert, M.D., J.D., M.A.C.P., F.R.S.M.(London)
    >
    >
    >
    "Let the dead bury the dead".... .....................William A. Noyes
     
  13. Mattlb

    Mattlb Guest

    John 'the Man' wrote:
    >
    > Once upon a time, our fellow MattLB rambled on about "Re: I need your professsional guess,
    > Ferritin Iron reduction results.." Our champion De-Medicalizing in sci.med.nutrition retorts,
    > thusly ...
    >
    > >> That means the Alpha Lipoic Acid will dissappear from your blood within a half-hour.
    >
    > >No, it means after half an hour there will be half as much as there was to begin with.
    >
    > Quoting you: So what?

    So you were wrong and misleading.

    MattLB
     
  14. Once upon a time, our fellow MattLB rambled on about "Re: I need your professsional guess, Ferritin
    Iron reduction results.." Our champion De-Medicalizing in sci.med.nutrition retorts, thusly ...

    >> Quoting you: So what?

    >So you were wrong and misleading.

    So you were unable to answer the question.

    Ha, ... Hah, Ha! Must mean that I was right. :)

    Go to, you're a dry fool; I'll no more of you. -- Twelfth Night
     
  15. John Adkins

    John Adkins Guest

    Hey, I'd be interested on whether you've heard IP6 is ok to take when iron is high. A year ago, I
    had about 90% of a brain tumor removed (benign), leaving a small one right next to my brain stem. I
    started taking IP6 afterwards. As a result of an MRI, it was found that my brain was discolored...
    leading to more tests. Finally it was discovered that I have Hemochromatosis, or iron overload. My
    ferritin 4 months ago was 4,900, with organs having 100% saturation level. I've been giving a pint a
    week (up to 1 1/2 pints now) to reduce the iron. my ferritin is down to 2,800. But I had stopped
    taking IP6 because I wasn't sure whether it would hurt or help. Any info?
     
  16. Doug Brooks

    Doug Brooks Guest

    John Adkins wrote:
    > Hey, I'd be interested on whether you've heard IP6 is ok to take when iron is high. A year ago, I
    > had about 90% of a brain tumor removed (benign), leaving a small one right next to my brain stem.
    > I started taking IP6 afterwards. As a result of an MRI, it was found that my brain was
    > discolored... leading to more tests. Finally it was discovered that I have Hemochromatosis, or
    > iron overload. My ferritin 4 months ago was 4,900, with organs having 100% saturation level. I've
    > been giving a pint a week (up to 1 1/2 pints now) to reduce the iron. my ferritin is down to
    > 2,800. But I had stopped taking IP6 because I wasn't sure whether it would hurt or help. Any info?

    It should help in theory, as it is a chelator, of course it will chelate other metals as well. I
    don't think there are any studies along the lines of your specific use. I think Mercola claims it
    works for a lot of people, but I don't know. The prescription chelators that are specific for iron
    don't even work that well, and you've got a lot of iron.

    There is a great book you might check out, The Iron Disorders INstitute Guide to Hemochromatosis by
    Burke, Phatak & Weinberg. I assume you have started therapeutic phlebotomy and avoid iron rich
    foods. You might look into apheresis, you can get more iron out per phleb that way.
     
  17. Anth

    Anth Guest

    Give blood if you can - that tends to lower yout blood iron. Anth

    "John Adkins" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Hey, I'd be interested on whether you've heard IP6 is ok to take when iron is high. A year ago, I
    > had about 90% of a brain tumor removed (benign), leaving a small one right next to my brain stem.
    > I started taking IP6 afterwards. As a result of an MRI, it was found that my brain was
    > discolored... leading to more tests. Finally it was discovered that I have Hemochromatosis, or
    > iron overload. My ferritin 4 months ago was 4,900, with organs having 100% saturation level. I've
    > been giving a pint a week (up to 1 1/2 pints now) to reduce the iron. my ferritin is down to
    > 2,800. But I had stopped taking IP6 because I wasn't sure whether it would hurt or help. Any info?
     
  18. Moosh!

    Moosh! Guest

    On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 22:06:40 +0100, "Anth" <[email protected]> posted:

    >Give blood if you can - that tends to lower yout blood iron. Anth

    Look up hemochromatosis treatment please. Blood banks here won't take more often than 3 monthly.

    >"John Adkins" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]...
    >> Hey, I'd be interested on whether you've heard IP6 is ok to take when iron is high. A year
    >> ago, I had about 90% of a brain tumor removed (benign), leaving a small one right next to my
    >> brain stem. I started taking IP6 afterwards. As a result of an MRI, it was found that my brain
    >> was discolored... leading to more tests. Finally it was discovered that I have
    >> Hemochromatosis, or iron overload. My ferritin 4 months ago was 4,900, with organs having 100%
    >> saturation level. I've been giving a pint a week (up to 1 1/2 pints now) to reduce the iron.
    >> my ferritin is down to 2,800. But I had stopped taking IP6 because I wasn't sure whether it
    >> would hurt or help. Any info?
     
  19. John Adkins

    John Adkins Guest

    Moosh! <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 22:06:40 +0100, "Anth" <[email protected]> posted:
    >
    > >Give blood if you can - that tends to lower yout blood iron. Anth
    >
    >
    > Look up hemochromatosis treatment please. Blood banks here won't take more often than 3 monthly.
    >

    You are right Moosh. Not only that, but in some rural areas (like mine), blood banks will not take
    high-iron blood. The 1 1/2 pints of blood I give a week is drawn at a hospital and is thrown right
    in the trash. Also, based on this thread and some reading I've done, it looks like IP6 can't hurt.
    I'm taking it again. Thanks!
     
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