I think I'm burnt out, now what?

Discussion in 'Power Training' started by tweety102us, Jun 12, 2007.

  1. tweety102us

    tweety102us New Member

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    Hopefully someone can help with some pointers. Here's the scoop.

    Been racing Master 1 cat. for 3 years now, last year started being a contender. Bought a PT for Christmas and started training 4 to 5 days a week, 2 weeks in Carolina in March, feeling great started the season at the front. Wednesday night "fun" races was able to solo for 2 to 3 laps and could win every sprint and race with ease. Did well at the first couple of races, not placing well but trying different tactics like attacking constantly and trying to ride alone for the last lap and such.
    Did a race May 12 and felt like Superman, we (M1) rode combined with S1 and I missed a 5 man break with all S1 guys, and then rode solo the last 800m off the front and only got caught by one guy. I felt like I could do anything. Next weekend big race with a big climb 9 times. I'm 6'2" and 185 pounds and was still able to ride at the front all day and bring a teammate to the base of the finishing climb at the very front, faded to 18th but still was content.
    Since that day, I have no legs. I'm no getting dropped from our Wednesday fun races and just did a big race on Sunday and popped barely over half way.

    5 different people (including guys who know what they are talking about) have told me to take some time off because I'm fried. Looking back my last real recovery week was in March.

    My question is: how should I go about getting my form back. I'm taking this week completely off the bike, but don't know what to do when I resume training. I don't want to get into a cycle of just recovering enough to get by and then being fried again. I want to use this as a learning experience and get smarter and stronger from it.

    I'm 38, been training for 4 years. 6'2" 82kg. Ftp: 350watts
    5sec: 1500watts
    20min: 380watts.

    Sorry for the long read, didn't want to leave much out.

    Thanks for any input.

    Scott.
     
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  2. beerco

    beerco New Member

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    What's your CTL and ATL right now?

    What were they your last "good day"?

    What was the trend for CTL and ATL during the time you were doing well and now that you feel rough?
     
  3. jhuskey

    jhuskey Moderator

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    My advise is to take a little time off from hard training on the bike but not exercise.
    Do something less stressful for a couple of weeks. Another sport that you have less emotional in but still have fun.
    This will give your psyche a break and stll keep you in decent form. The body seems to rebel with withdrawal symptoms when you stop activity completely.
    Just a thought.
     
  4. tweety102us

    tweety102us New Member

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    CTL 68.2 on 5/20
    57.9 on 6/12

    ATL 95.5 on 5/20
    37.8 on 6/12

    TSB -27.2 on 5/21
    15.2 on 6/12

    On my mean maximal chart I have lost power from 0 seconds to 1:10 minutes

    2 sec 1338w on 5/2 2 sec 1221w on 6/9
    5 sec 1282w on 5/2 5 sec 1146w on 6/9
    20 sec 1013w on 5/2 20 sec 903w on 6/9
    1 min 730w on 5/2 1 min 609w on 6/9

    from there on out I'm able to match. What I seem to have lost is my ability to accelerate and the hold it.
     
  5. velogator

    velogator New Member

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    You are about where I am currently. I can still hit my power numbers in TT's, but just don't have the "chase and recover" legs right now needed for crits. I'm doing a 40k TT this weekend and then taking 2 weeks off (easy rides only). I'm not going to race in July, but build back up for the August and September races. I'm a 42 year old Cat 3, with a 6 month old son, doing most of my training on the trainer in the basement at 5am...takes it's toll on the body.

    From March through the middle of May, I was racing good. But, I did a hard crit last Sunday (District Championship) and was popped after 3 laps, should've been my first clue of what was up. This past weekend I had a Cat 3 and a 40+ circuit race on a fairly easy course. I was dropped after 10 of the 16 laps in the 40+ race, finished the Cat 3 race, but wayyy off the back for the last 3 laps. I looked at my power numbers for the races and based on those, the races weren't even that hard, yet I couldn't "accelerate and hold it". Thus, I know its time for a rest. This happened to me before and I didn't rest, and for the last 2 months of the season, I wasn't able to finish a crit (yet my TT's were very good).

    It's a fine line between peaking/being strong and being off the back, more so for some of us. It used to tick me off (still does sometimes :) that some guys could race every weekend and be very competitive, and yet I was training my ass off to build a 4 week peak, after which I needed a couple weeks rest (of course, I didn't want to rest, but wanted to train harder so I could be that guy who could race every weekend). But, that's life (and genetics)

    Anyway, I'm not a coach, but I feel your pain...I'd say it's time to take a rest.
     
  6. shawndoggy

    shawndoggy New Member

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    While not exactly on point, I noticed a very similar trend in going back this winter and analyzing where I had cracked in my 2005 and 2006 seasons. Both times it was after relatively strong performances and both times I was so worked I didn't want to look at the bike anymore. My legs were perma-fried and I was mentally toast.

    Turns out that in both cases my burnout happened right around the time of going really deep into negative territory TSB-wise. Basically that my CTL "base" was insufficient to sustain the acute load I was putting on my body and my body finally said enough.

    This year I've hit the season about 20 points higher on the CTL and it's made all the difference. I've had heaping helpings of SST all winter and spring (which also had the benefit of bringing up my FTP from 290 to 310) and it seems that I'm able to handle the load better now.
     
  7. tweety102us

    tweety102us New Member

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    My main concern is how to handle this without regressing too much. In the future I think I will be able to spot the warning signs quicker and deal with it before it takes control.


    My plan for now is to take the week off the bike, do a very easy ride on Sunday, and then not ride again until next Wednesday's fun race. I just want to know if that should be enough? or will I just be digging the hole deeper?
     
  8. shawndoggy

    shawndoggy New Member

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    I'd suggest going back to the well for some SST for a week or two before turning it back up with the over-FTP work. You'll renew your aerobic fitness a bit and let the legs recover from the anaerobic efforts at the same time. Mentally, you'll probably be chomping at the bit to get back in the game by then.
     
  9. tweety102us

    tweety102us New Member

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    today's my second day and I'm already chomping.
     
  10. beerco

    beerco New Member

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    Shawndoggy's already got it covered but I'll chime in anyway:

    From your CTL and ATL of 5/20, 68 and 95, you had been riding a lot and had plenty of fitness. Since then, you haven't been riding a lot (atl=37) and your fitness has dropped - surprised?

    The only thing that's funny is that usually when you get a positive TSB the short term efforts are easier, on the other hand, your CTL has dropped more than 10 points which could explain everything.

    I was on the PMC beta list and the general consensus was that if you're CTL is below 80 or 90, "withdrawing" TSB at the cost of CTL didn't result in improved performance, i.e. you have to be pretty fit for a taper to work. A CTL of 68 is not really very high at all, especially for a cat 1.

    Time off is the last thing you need. Hit the SST and get that CTL up (I should talk, my CTL is so low I'm embarrassed to say)
     
  11. tweety102us

    tweety102us New Member

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    the only thing is, I haven't been riding any less I've been riding between 8 to 10 hrs a week. But mostly very high intensity.
     
  12. beerco

    beerco New Member

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    ATL of 37 says otherwise. What's the IF and TSS of the last 28 days (post a graph from WKO+)?

    Edit:

    Your drop in CTL by 10 points also says something about your recent training as well. Perhaps your high intensity is detracting from your chronic fitness. While you're at it, describe a typical high intensity ride for us.
     
  13. tweety102us

    tweety102us New Member

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    How do I do this?
     
  14. beerco

    beerco New Member

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    You know what, just post the values instead. If you click on the "options" button on the graph, there is a option for "copy raw" just do that and then paste the values into the post.

    While you're at it, you can compare those values to the values in the 28 days leading up to your best performances. (BTW I added some stuff to my last post).
     
  15. tweety102us

    tweety102us New Member

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    I'm very sorry I've somehow gotten the wrong figures for TSB and ATL from 6/10


    It should read:

    ATL 6/10= 70.5
    TSB 6/11= -6.6


    Don't know how I messed that up, very sorry.
     
  16. tweety102us

    tweety102us New Member

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    Training Stress and Intensity Factor Last 28 Days
    Date Training Stress Intensity Factor
    5/16/2007 128.037590498194 0.92613693904608
    5/17/2007
    5/18/2007
    5/19/2007 47.3953818911613 0.718102817061476
    5/20/2007 286.849345092802 0.8816378169826
    5/21/2007
    5/22/2007
    5/23/2007 104.392098069362 0.909466967273653
    5/24/2007
    5/25/2007
    5/26/2007
    5/27/2007 69.3376570098201 0.668123750010535
    5/28/2007 62.0263048724899 0.840936879961278
    5/29/2007
    5/30/2007 113.083031051733 0.910657825778006
    5/31/2007
    6/1/2007
    6/2/2007 128.032330261949 0.74095340164264
    6/3/2007 132.69707768211 0.716751278483373
    6/4/2007
    6/5/2007 53.9429820213391 0.76874031934464
    6/6/2007 143.29691093531 0.987912338172213
    6/7/2007
    6/8/2007
    6/9/2007 54.4111053966508 0.770445642286194
    6/10/2007 133.617874116176 0.853883138650837
    6/11/2007
    6/12/2007
    Here you go.

    I will post more on my training sessions tomorrow morning.

    Thanks, again for all the help.

    BTW: these figures do not include my non-PT rides just PT info.
     
  17. cduroy

    cduroy New Member

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  18. tweety102us

    tweety102us New Member

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  19. beerco

    beerco New Member

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    Nevertheless, your CTL has still dropped more than 10 points which means you're "withdrawing" from your CTL bank. At this low a CTL, that might not be a good idea. Look back at the weeks before your good performances for guidance on what to do in the future.

    Right now you just need to drive up your CTL with with a high ATL (sst), but for the future, figure out how to add in intensity while keeping your ATL at least as high as your CTL for good performances. This will result in a TSB of zero and at least your CTL won't drop.

    Good luck.
     
  20. jbvcoaching

    jbvcoaching New Member

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    Are you doing some riding/training/racing that you're not entering into your PMC via manual entries? If so, then you need to go back and do some manual entries, or the PMC is pretty well useless.
     
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