Ibuprofen before Vo2 max workouts? You too?
- Thread starter tonyzackery
- Start date
ah okay - the speeds make more sense then and can probably be explained 100% w/o resorting to the adjustable aero drag factor etc.tonyzackery said:
At a total mass of 95kg, on my setup I need nearly exactly 320W to average 40.0 kph over a longish close to flat course (one where the initial ramp to speed is irrelevant). Roughly speaking, that's equivalent to a CdA of 0.330-0.335 assuming std. air density, no wind and typical Crr. Equivalent to more of a road bike position than TT for sure ...
FYI, for those that are interested - had my Vo2max and Lactate Threshold tested at the Peak Centre in Vancouver (thanks Paul Hatano and Mike McIvor) last weekend (skipped the weekly TT) to determine if my training regimen is effective or not so, and to get some baseline numbers to compare to later. I'll do another test at the end of TT season to determine if there's been any improvement.
Currently, I prescribe to the 'ride hard or rest hard' training plan meaning I'm training at either L4 or L1/2 intensity exclusively - no L5-L7 and no L3 (aka Tempo or Sweet Spot). I'm putting in ~8hrs/week broken down at ~35% L4, ~65% L1/2.
The results of my test were satisfying in that my LT power is 92% of Vo2max power, max Vo2 is 5.46L/min or 60.2 ml/kg/min. Now if I was 70kgs. I'd be dangerous!
The fact that my LT power is bumping up against my Vo2max power gives me good indication that my current training protocol is effective for the TT series and the testers agreed.
Going forward, I'm going to incorporate a small amount (~5%/week) of L5 work in order to bump up my power at Vo2max. My thinking is that I want to raise the Vo2 power "ceiling" so that LT power won't be restricted.
Interesting to note is that at Vo2max, I'm burning almost 30 cals/minute, 100% carbohydrate. Even at LT, burning rate is 25 cals/minute. I had no idea! Obviously, I'll have to devise a serious feeding plan for my longer races next year...also explains how I could bonk during a 35 minute crit...
Currently, I prescribe to the 'ride hard or rest hard' training plan meaning I'm training at either L4 or L1/2 intensity exclusively - no L5-L7 and no L3 (aka Tempo or Sweet Spot). I'm putting in ~8hrs/week broken down at ~35% L4, ~65% L1/2.
The results of my test were satisfying in that my LT power is 92% of Vo2max power, max Vo2 is 5.46L/min or 60.2 ml/kg/min. Now if I was 70kgs. I'd be dangerous!
The fact that my LT power is bumping up against my Vo2max power gives me good indication that my current training protocol is effective for the TT series and the testers agreed. Going forward, I'm going to incorporate a small amount (~5%/week) of L5 work in order to bump up my power at Vo2max. My thinking is that I want to raise the Vo2 power "ceiling" so that LT power won't be restricted.
Interesting to note is that at Vo2max, I'm burning almost 30 cals/minute, 100% carbohydrate. Even at LT, burning rate is 25 cals/minute. I had no idea! Obviously, I'll have to devise a serious feeding plan for my longer races next year...also explains how I could bonk during a 35 minute crit...
Nice test results! I was thinking of getting a similar test done in Spring if I'm able to keep training.tonyzackery said:FYI, for those that are interested - had my Vo2max and Lactate Threshold tested at the Peak Centre in Vancouver (thanks Paul Hatano and Mike McIvor) last weekend (skipped the weekly TT) to determine if my training regimen is effective or not so, and to get some baseline numbers to compare to later. I'll do another test at the end of TT season to determine if there's been any improvement.
Currently, I prescribe to the 'ride hard or rest hard' training plan meaning I'm training at either L4 or L1/2 intensity exclusively - no L5-L7 and no L3 (aka Tempo or Sweet Spot). I'm putting in ~8hrs/week broken down at ~35% L4, ~65% L1/2.
The results of my test were satisfying in that my LT power is 92% of Vo2max power, max Vo2 is 5.46L/min or 60.2 ml/kg/min. Now if I was 70kgs. I'd be dangerous!
Going forward, I'm going to incorporate a small amount (~5%/week) of L5 work in order to bump up my power at Vo2max. My thinking is that I want to raise the Vo2 power "ceiling" so that LT power won't be restricted.
Interesting to note is that at Vo2max, I'm burning almost 30 cals/minute, 100% carbohydrate. Even at LT, burning rate is 25 cals/minute. I had no idea! Obviously, I'll have to devise a serious feeding plan for my longer races next year...also explains how I could bonk during a 35 minute crit...
As for the bonking in 30 minute crits. Your body is able to store enough glycogen for somewhere between 90 to 120 minutes of all out action. So unless you've been seriously skimping on the carbs for the previous week or more then maybe something else is afoot. For longer rides I find that Hammer's Perpetuem is easy on the stomach and is good for everything from 3 hour rides in the steep hills and upto 129 miles and 15,000+ft of climbing up in them thar hills, well mountains. It doesn't give me gas and cramps like everything else on the market in the US. 'tis a shame that I can't get the Science in Sport stuff overhere - I used to love that stuff.
Hey, how 'bout you do another test with a double dose of Ibuprofen.
Just kiddin'
That would be highly unlikely, unless you had been fasting for quite some time before your race.tonyzackery said:
Fasting? No, but low carb dieting - yes. Early in my racing career (LOL!, Like I've been cycle racing for THAT long), I had the idea that I should drop some significant weight AND continuing trying to race competitively. How stupid was that?!Alex Simmons said:
Further, at 220w/135bpm I'm only burning .57g/min of fat but a whopping 3.27g/min of carbohydrate - and the ratio only gets worse as the intensity increases. I had no idea again that I was so poor at burning fats, or so good at burning carbs. I know I'm a type II guy, but sheesh...
Thanks, Swampy. I got some Perpetuem samples from a friend and I'll have to give them a try...swampy1970 said:Nice test results! I was thinking of getting a similar test done in Spring if I'm able to keep training.
As for the bonking in 30 minute crits. Your body is able to store enough glycogen for somewhere between 90 to 120 minutes of all out action. So unless you've been seriously skimping on the carbs for the previous week or more then maybe something else is afoot. For longer rides I find that Hammer's Perpetuem is easy on the stomach and is good for everything from 3 hour rides in the steep hills and upto 129 miles and 15,000+ft of climbing up in them thar hills, well mountains. It doesn't give me gas and cramps like everything else on the market in the US. 'tis a shame that I can't get the Science in Sport stuff overhere - I used to love that stuff.
Hey, how 'bout you do another test with a double dose of Ibuprofen.
Exhaled gas analysis. Amazing technology...I can fully understand and appreciate the cost of the test consider the equipment they utilize.swampy1970 said:
As noted in a previous post I'm embarking on a sincere quest to raise my power output at Vo2 max (with or w/out Ibuprofen is irrelevant) and I'm very interested in hearing from those of you out there that have accomplished this feat. I've read many studies and know there's a plethora of information out there in netland that address this, but I'd like to hear from CF members.
With all due respect to the theorists beforehand, I'd like to hear from members that have actually accomplished raising their aerobic ceiling (verified by before and after Vo2max testing?) and what training prescription they utilized. Much preferably I'm looking for experience over speculation.
Workout frequency (times/day, times/week), intensity (wattage and/or HR), duration of work period, duration of recovery period and between workouts, etc...Thanks in advance.
With all due respect to the theorists beforehand, I'd like to hear from members that have actually accomplished raising their aerobic ceiling (verified by before and after Vo2max testing?) and what training prescription they utilized. Much preferably I'm looking for experience over speculation.
Workout frequency (times/day, times/week), intensity (wattage and/or HR), duration of work period, duration of recovery period and between workouts, etc...Thanks in advance.
Damn, almost forgot how much I hate L5 workouts! Especially w/out Ibuprofen ...
Did 10 x 1.5min @ 110% of LTpower w/ recovery to 120bpm (~1min). I know, I know - according to the available studies floating out there you're supposed to work at least 2 minutes to reach your Vo2max but I'm going to start at 110% and increase the duration each week until I reach 3mins. If/when I get to 3mins I'll increase the wattage. It's critical that I maintain 85-90rpm (90rpm testing protocol). I can crank out higher wattage at a lower rpm, but the lower rpm wouldn't be applicable to the test...
...Did 10 x 1.5min @ 110% of LTpower w/ recovery to 120bpm (~1min). I know, I know - according to the available studies floating out there you're supposed to work at least 2 minutes to reach your Vo2max but I'm going to start at 110% and increase the duration each week until I reach 3mins. If/when I get to 3mins I'll increase the wattage. It's critical that I maintain 85-90rpm (90rpm testing protocol). I can crank out higher wattage at a lower rpm, but the lower rpm wouldn't be applicable to the test...
As I notice a trend towards transparency of info, thought I'd pass along all of my test results and let you all compare yourself to me:
Aerobic threshold: 280w/155bpm 78% of power at Vo2max
Lactate threshold: 330w/166bpm 92% of power at Vo2max
Vo2 test stages:
Watts- HR- Lactate- Vo2- ml/kg/min- Fat g/mn - CHO g/min
1 - 220w - 135bpm - 1.39mMol - 3.64L/min - 39.9 - 0.57 - 3.27
2 - 250 - 145 - 1.44 - 4.10 - 45.0 - 0.64 - 3.68
3 - 280 154 1.86 4.46 48.9 0.45 4.58
4 - 310 164 2.75 4.81 52.7 0.23 5.56
5 - 340 167 4.52 5.11 56.1 0.00 6.58
6 - 370 175 8.14 5.46 60.2 0.00 7.10
Completed only 2mins. at 370w stage. 90rpm required. 3min stages.
Height 6'3" 200.8lbs. Gear ratio 53/17. Total time 17mins.
I think I would/could have achieved a higher MAP if the stages were 1 minute, but it really doesn't matter to me all that much as long as future tests are the same protocol. The test was hard, so be sure to keep your drool towel handy! Looking forward to doing it again in 4mos.
Aerobic threshold: 280w/155bpm 78% of power at Vo2max
Lactate threshold: 330w/166bpm 92% of power at Vo2max
Vo2 test stages:
Watts- HR- Lactate- Vo2- ml/kg/min- Fat g/mn - CHO g/min
1 - 220w - 135bpm - 1.39mMol - 3.64L/min - 39.9 - 0.57 - 3.27
2 - 250 - 145 - 1.44 - 4.10 - 45.0 - 0.64 - 3.68
3 - 280 154 1.86 4.46 48.9 0.45 4.58
4 - 310 164 2.75 4.81 52.7 0.23 5.56
5 - 340 167 4.52 5.11 56.1 0.00 6.58
6 - 370 175 8.14 5.46 60.2 0.00 7.10
Completed only 2mins. at 370w stage. 90rpm required. 3min stages.
Height 6'3" 200.8lbs. Gear ratio 53/17. Total time 17mins.
I think I would/could have achieved a higher MAP if the stages were 1 minute, but it really doesn't matter to me all that much as long as future tests are the same protocol. The test was hard, so be sure to keep your drool towel handy!
Looking forward to doing it again in 4mos.
Well, seeing as no one has any personal experience they want to share w.r.t. verified wattage increases to their power at Vo2max, y'all can stay tuned to this thread to see if/how much I can raise mine in about 4mos time - when I'll be doing my next test. There must be some truth to the alleged voyeuristic nature of men. Anyway...
Ibuprofen? Yeah, probably 200mgs. every other L5 workout. I'll be doing one tonight with it as last week was without. Schedule is thus:
Monday - 1.5hrs L1/2
Tuesday - L5 10x2mins @ 370w (110% LTP) 85-90rpm w/recovery to 120bpm @ 1% grade, followed by 30mins L1/2
Wednesday - 1.5hrs L1/2
Thursday - .75 - 1hr L4 >80rpm @ 2% grade
Friday - 45mins L1/2
Saturday - Computrainer TT (45mins-1hr at FTP, aka just above LTP) in afternoon followed by 1hr @ L1/L2 in evening
Sunday - 2hrs @ L1/2
L5 intervals will increase by 30s every week up to 4mins where I'll then increase power 10% and go back to 1.5mins intervals and work my way up again. I realize if all goes well I'll be nudging into L6 territory by the time of next test (April).
All cycling done indoors - unless a nice day comes along up here in BC.
15min L1/2 w/u before intervals.
Schedule will be flexible - of course. Don't see the need for a rest "day" as the L1/2 days allow for sufficient recovery between hard effort days. Rather than 1.5hrs on easy days, depending on how I feel I will cut those shorter.
Been doing this basic schedule since the start of the TT series and I believe it's working for me - my average wattage for the TTs has increased from 320ish (first several) to 340ish (last couple). FYI, results of the last two TTs haven't been posted yet.
Ibuprofen? Yeah, probably 200mgs. every other L5 workout. I'll be doing one tonight with it as last week was without. Schedule is thus:
Monday - 1.5hrs L1/2
Tuesday - L5 10x2mins @ 370w (110% LTP) 85-90rpm w/recovery to 120bpm @ 1% grade, followed by 30mins L1/2
Wednesday - 1.5hrs L1/2
Thursday - .75 - 1hr L4 >80rpm @ 2% grade
Friday - 45mins L1/2
Saturday - Computrainer TT (45mins-1hr at FTP, aka just above LTP) in afternoon followed by 1hr @ L1/L2 in evening
Sunday - 2hrs @ L1/2
L5 intervals will increase by 30s every week up to 4mins where I'll then increase power 10% and go back to 1.5mins intervals and work my way up again. I realize if all goes well I'll be nudging into L6 territory by the time of next test (April).
All cycling done indoors - unless a nice day comes along up here in BC.
15min L1/2 w/u before intervals.
Schedule will be flexible - of course. Don't see the need for a rest "day" as the L1/2 days allow for sufficient recovery between hard effort days. Rather than 1.5hrs on easy days, depending on how I feel I will cut those shorter.
Been doing this basic schedule since the start of the TT series and I believe it's working for me - my average wattage for the TTs has increased from 320ish (first several) to 340ish (last couple). FYI, results of the last two TTs haven't been posted yet.
Tony, appreciate you posting the detailed results of your MAP test and training schedule. If I read correctly, your VO2 max is already fairly high @ 60 ml/kg/min. Also it's interesting to see fat metabolism peaking at step 2, then dropping off to zero.
Keep the updates coming please. Eager to see if your L5 training focus brings up your VO2 max and then if your avg TT power moves up along with it.
Keep the updates coming please. Eager to see if your L5 training focus brings up your VO2 max and then if your avg TT power moves up along with it.
My pleasure, dhk. Those fat/carb metabolism numbers have me pretty stunned/stumped too. I would've thought that with the significant amount of riding I've already done in the 21/2 yrs since getting on the road bike that I would've shown better fat utilization than those figures demonstrate. Clearly shows that I have much more time in the saddle ahead of me to convert additional IIb fibers to IIa.dhk2 said:
Coming from a mainly anaerobic athletic background to cycling has really opened my eyes to the inner workings of my body - especially fascinating is aerobic/anaerobic energy production. If I only had a small amount of my present knowledge a couple decades ago when I was heavily involved in track and field and football in college...
Uh, completed the L5 workout tonight and there will be a couple adjustments to protocol. The recovery between reps will be at least 3mins - forget the "recovery to 120bpm" as this doesn't allow enough time for adequate lactate/hydrogen ion/phosphate ion clearance, and I'll complete 8 rather than 10 reps until my quads/glutes/hamstrings get better acclimated to this increasingly anaerobic energy production environment. I HATE L5 workouts!
fyi, Stage 5. For whatever reason results of stage 4 haven't appeared yet...
http://www.ridewithrendall.com/?rwr=Home
http://www.ridewithrendall.com/?rwr=Home
Very good!!!
I may start using Ibuprofen
Actually I did take some this morning so I could work out while having some tendonitis in my elbows.
I may start using Ibuprofen
Actually I did take some this morning so I could work out while having some tendonitis in my elbows.
Gracias, Felt.Felt_Rider said:Very good!!!
I may start using Ibuprofen
Actually I did take some this morning so I could work out while having some tendonitis in my elbows.
**Disclaimer**
Again, for all the children out there reading this thread - This thread is not meant to be a general advocation of the use of NSAIDS for training enhancement purposes; I am relating my own personal experience directly forewith. If you so choose, please use with discretion, and if you're under 18yo, your parents' permission.
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