Ibuprofen before Vo2 max workouts? You too?
- Thread starter tonyzackery
- Start date
Excellent!!! Another seal has joined the circus!! I'll be SURE to throw you an extra treat or two seeing as you're so new and need to get up to speed with your fellow trained seals...LOL!3rensho said:
tonyzackery said:Only three trained seals still jumping through the hoops...and to think I thought Cranky would still be jumping the highest...Regardless, it's delightful to know I've still got a couple clamoring for my attention and waiting for my next entry to this docudrama...LOL! I'll make sure to keep you all hopping and be sure to throw you some treats when you obey my commands...
Anyway... dr. spoc, as previously mentioned this is a Computrainer TT series, and as such rear wheel speed is how wattage is calculated. With the brake block rubbing on rim and slowing the wheel, I surmise calculated wattage output would be adversely affected. I would like to hope so, but if not and I'm wrong, no big deal - we're still in the "pre-season" of the series and the first 4 TTs don't count for points yet...
are you doing the Peaks Centre series? lots of guys from here in Ottawa compete in that series too...
That's the one...Too bad most of the TTs are hilly as they really wear me out. My first halves have been decent but during the second half my wattage erodes pretty significantly...the varying grades take their toll on a bigger roadie such as myself...doctorSpoc said:
I see 4 are still jumping, and doing neat tricks like posting pics too! Nice...
Keep it up, I'll be sure to keep you fed with treats...
Sounds like a pacing problem to me. Have you considered an alternative pacing strategy?tonyzackery said:
Ya' know, I was actually considering upping my pre-TT Ibuprofen dosage to 600mgs from 200-400. LOL!Alex Simmons said:
Seriously though, I've thought about pacing strategy and my apparent lack thereof but I'm really in uncharted territory as I'm not a TT guy at all. Including this series, I'm up to maybe 6 TTs in my life so I'm learning what my body likes as I go. Because I'm a sprinter by muscle-type I have little confidence in my time trialling skills - pacing myself relatively comfortably and picking it up at the end. My "A" game is "sitting in" during a crit or track scratch race and then gassing it at the end. Basically, I'm using this indoor winter series as training to improve my power at threshold. Believe me, at 200lbs right now I have no delusions of grandeur w.r.t. ever becoming a good climber. I'm a crit rat and flatland roadie - I know this and I'm satisfied...
Right now, I'm going approx. 95% (of max HR) for as long as I can and basically just hanging on till the end. I may try hovering at 90% and see how that goes...It's difficult to settle into a rhythm though because of the constantly changing course profiles...
Pace it based on power. Just keep it the same on the flats and uphills and do your damnedest to keep the power up there on the downhill sections. Unless you're managing to stay pretty cool during the ride, pacing by heart rate can be pretty tricky until you figure out how you respond to the additional heat.tonyzackery said:
tonyzackery said:
i'm not TT expert either but i know you... can't/shouldn't go by HR. if you go by iso HR you'll start out WAY too fast, red line and be in pain for basically the whole thing and really such by the end of it. plus you HR ramps as the intervals goes on, so if you keep HR steady you'll be doing high power at the begining and power will really such by the end. if you don't have a power meter and you have to go by HR start out relatively with a steady tempo to begin... don't push it... then add power as it comes online... don't force it... by the last few mins you should be at those high HRs.
even with power i tend to ramp up my power starting out at ~15-20W below what i'm aiming for and ramp up so at the end for the last few minutes ave ~20-30W above... last minute as much as 40-50W above... i've never done them, but i'm told that on the computrainer races there is no penalty really doing the downhills hard (like there is outside) so you could likely use your power there to make up some time.
Yes you can. You just have to take into account mainly environmental considerations. For example, if I was to do a 25 mile time trial at 5.30am (not uncommon in England on some of the 'faster' courses) I'd know that I'd be a few bpm down on what I'd do for a similar event in the afternoon when you're more ready for the effort and it's somewhat warmer.doctorSpoc said:
It makes you wonder how guys rode timetrials in the late 80's and 90's (and little matters like world hour records) by pacing with heart rate monitors with blanket statements like "you can't/shouldn't go by HR"
If it's a longer event ie several hours, that may involve changes in weather, altitude etc then it gets a little less reliable but from my own personal experience, even on hilly courses with changable weather (periods on sun and icey cold rain) you can pace well with heart rate.
Maybe someone should have told Chris Boardman after his 45minute, 25 mile time trial "sorry Chris, you would have gone faster if you'd not paced by heart rate... can you go out there and do it again? Thanks."
I think he's saying you can train or TT using HR, but just be aware of the lag effects ... especially at the beginning of your exertion/session. I've trained by HR and I understand what he is getting at. The key is also adequate warm-up. But at the start of a session.... it may take you 5 minutes at least at FTP (functional threshold power) before your heart gets up to it's functional threshold heart rate. If your coach said to do 10 minutes at functional threshold in training... and you tried to get to that HR too early... you'd be exceeding FTP early on... especially if you didn't have a power meter as a check.... and be producing too much lactic acid. That is going to effect you at the end of a TT. The key is staying at that optimum power (which can vary slightly depending on how you feel that day and your fitness) so that you can maintain it as long as possible without raising lactate levels too much.swampy1970 said:
Nah... he's doing the Cycle U Indoor TT Computrainer series at Sandy Point Way NE, Seattle. It's a crowded little room in a little old brown building. He doesn't know which guy is Cranky though...doctorSpoc said:
swampy1970 said:
sorry... iso HR... if you read my post you'll see that's what i'm saying... i even give an example of how to use HR to TT... and i'm sure Boardman would have chucked his HR monitor in the trash any day of the week for a power meter... if you do have a power meter i would say... don't use an HRM... and i've found that even with a PM you do need to make adjustments for temp and humidity too...
In the future it will not be necessary for anybody to read this thread. Just watch this little clip instead:frenchyge said:While trolling forums for attention may seem fun, Cranky's got the reality of it.
Tony would have better luck with this approach:
http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=x2Vlu4Qu5ic
For those that even give a sh#t, and I know it's not that many at this point , had a good TT yesterday on an undulating (aka rolling) course. Hit another all-time high for average wattage. Furthermore, only took 1 (200mgs) Ibuprofen beforehand. No delayed onset muscle soreness, no kidney failure, no sexual dysfunction (ask my wife this morning ), no irrepressible urge to mow the lawn, etc...
Most glad to know my wattage meltdown from last week was more than likely mechanical as opposed to physical. With the mechanical issue tended to, my average wattage was up 34 watts versus last week, and last week was an easier course to boot...until next week...
, had a good TT yesterday on an undulating (aka rolling) course. Hit another all-time high for average wattage. Furthermore, only took 1 (200mgs) Ibuprofen beforehand. No delayed onset muscle soreness, no kidney failure, no sexual dysfunction (ask my wife this morning ), no irrepressible urge to mow the lawn, etc...Most glad to know my wattage meltdown from last week was more than likely mechanical as opposed to physical. With the mechanical issue tended to, my average wattage was up 34 watts versus last week, and last week was an easier course to boot...until next week...
Some additional info from Saturday's TT w/ Ibuprofen:
TT was relatively pain-free. Do I believe Ibuprofen assisted in mitigating the pain. Yes. Were parts of the TT uncomfortable? With sections of the TT at 6%, of course I felt discomfort considering my weight. An average hr of 175 (max 186) for 40mins. is no walk in the park, for sure. HR maxed at 180 during the TT.
Pacing strategy? For the most part I used perceived exertion and wattage. I tried as best I could to maintain a wattage a notch below my pain threshold, and I believe I was quite successful in the sense that in the final kilo (which thankfully was flat) I was able to muster a respectable sprint that exemplified my being exhausted, but not totally drained in the end. What wattage number was just below my pain threshold? It varied depending on the grade, and how much time had already elapsed. Nonetheless, is it reasonable to presume the Ibuprofen raised this threshold? I entirely believe so.
I still see a considerable erosion of my numbers as time elapses on the course. The culprits I believe are the downhill sections (decreased wattage as I try to recover a bit), my weight versus the positive elevation gain over time, and inexperience in proper pacing on these hilly profiles. For those numbers crunchers out there, IIRC my average wattage was 370ish at 20-25mins in and ended at 327w. This is at 90kgs, in the "off-season", and no focused "hill" training.
Muscle soreness today? Negative. Attenuated recovery? Nyet. Felt recovered enough yesterday to indulge in the 3hr hammerfest that is the Vet/Ace ride in and around greater Vancouver. To illustrate my recovery the day after racing a tough TT, of the 3 sprints during this spirited group ride (aka organized but non-sanctioned race involving all category of riders), I managed to win one and come in second in another.
The Ibuprofen/TT study continues...
TT was relatively pain-free. Do I believe Ibuprofen assisted in mitigating the pain. Yes. Were parts of the TT uncomfortable? With sections of the TT at 6%, of course I felt discomfort considering my weight. An average hr of 175 (max 186) for 40mins. is no walk in the park, for sure. HR maxed at 180 during the TT.
Pacing strategy? For the most part I used perceived exertion and wattage. I tried as best I could to maintain a wattage a notch below my pain threshold, and I believe I was quite successful in the sense that in the final kilo (which thankfully was flat) I was able to muster a respectable sprint that exemplified my being exhausted, but not totally drained in the end. What wattage number was just below my pain threshold? It varied depending on the grade, and how much time had already elapsed. Nonetheless, is it reasonable to presume the Ibuprofen raised this threshold? I entirely believe so.
I still see a considerable erosion of my numbers as time elapses on the course. The culprits I believe are the downhill sections (decreased wattage as I try to recover a bit), my weight versus the positive elevation gain over time, and inexperience in proper pacing on these hilly profiles. For those numbers crunchers out there, IIRC my average wattage was 370ish at 20-25mins in and ended at 327w. This is at 90kgs, in the "off-season", and no focused "hill" training.
Muscle soreness today? Negative. Attenuated recovery? Nyet. Felt recovered enough yesterday to indulge in the 3hr hammerfest that is the Vet/Ace ride in and around greater Vancouver. To illustrate my recovery the day after racing a tough TT, of the 3 sprints during this spirited group ride (aka organized but non-sanctioned race involving all category of riders), I managed to win one and come in second in another.
The Ibuprofen/TT study continues...
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