ice axes in the lake district?



S

Simon Mc

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"Andy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> is it square to take a ice axe to the lake district?
>
>
 
Andy wrote:
> is it square to take a ice axe to the lake district?


That rather depends on the conditions and what you'll be doing. It
certainly /can/ be worth taking axes there at certain times and places,
but right now I think it would be a waste of effort...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
 
Following up to Andy

>is it square to take a ice axe to the lake district?


not between November and April, unless your not hillwalking.
--
Mike Reid
If god wanted us to be vegetarians he wouldn't have made animals out of meat.
Wasdale-Lake district-Thames path-London "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
 
Following up to Andy

>the reason I asked is because I was up in the lake district wild camping in
>February this year and on the way back down I noticed several people who had
>ice axes attached to there backpacks, and I couldn't help wondering what the
>point of carrying them up there was, as there was probably no more than
>twenty square feet of snow up there!.


You make a judgement as to is there snow and ice high up,
sometimes you get it wrong. If I do a winter multi day walk
between pubs (my favourite way of walking :) ) I would take the
axe. some people probably just leave it on the pack all winter?
As for impaling yourself its best to have point protectors on, as
even if there is snow, its easy to have someones eye out on the
upward pointing spike.
--
Mike Reid
If god wanted us to be vegetarians he wouldn't have made animals out of meat.
Wasdale-Lake district-Thames path-London "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
 
"Andy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> the reason I asked is because I was up in the lake district wild camping

in
> February this year and on the way back down I noticed several people who

had
> ice axes attached to there backpacks, and I couldn't help wondering what

the
> point of carrying them up there was, as there was probably no more than
> twenty square feet of snow up there!. I also noticed what I believe were
> marks from crampons on a lot of the rocks on the paths. surely even if it
> had snowed heavily that day there wouldn't be enough snow to use something
> like that?. and aren't you at risk of impaling yourself on the thing every
> time you trip over?.
> "Andy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > is it square to take a ice axe to the lake district?
> >

The people you saw would have set out prepared for the worst and in some
years, on some of the fells, ice axes and crampons are extremely useful.

About 8 years ago in February, we went up Helvellyn from Thirlemere, about
200 metres from the top there was what we thought was a covering of snow,
when we reached it, it was frozen solid was virtually a sheet of ice and was
impossible to walk on without crampons, so we turned back. Anyone covering
any sort of distance over that ground would have found an ice axe extremely
useful if they had slipped.

Regards

Bernard
 
the reason I asked is because I was up in the lake district wild camping in
February this year and on the way back down I noticed several people who had
ice axes attached to there backpacks, and I couldn't help wondering what the
point of carrying them up there was, as there was probably no more than
twenty square feet of snow up there!. I also noticed what I believe were
marks from crampons on a lot of the rocks on the paths. surely even if it
had snowed heavily that day there wouldn't be enough snow to use something
like that?. and aren't you at risk of impaling yourself on the thing every
time you trip over?.
"Andy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> is it square to take a ice axe to the lake district?
>
>
 
In article <[email protected]>, Andy
<URL:mailto:[email protected]> wrote:
> are right, I thought there might be a use for them in that sort of
> situation. but aren't areas of ice like that rare in the lake
> district?.


Not that rare in winter. The real problem is that conditions are very
changeable. You could have sun, snow and rain all within a few hours of
each other. I've certainly been in the Lake District with several inches
of firm snow on the summits.

> and when it does snow up there isn't it more likely to only be a few
> inches deep.


Quite possibly.

> so to me it seems like the only real use for an ice axe is to help
> stop yourself if you start to fall down a very steep mountain side,


Yes that is a very valid use for an ice axe, particular a walking axe.

> but would there be enough snow to use the axe properly?.


Define what you mean by properly? Do you mean use of a "walking axe" or
use of a technical "climbing axe", e.g. with a drop nose pick ? They are
very different beasts with different intended uses.

You can also use an axe quite effectively in frozen turf, so snow isn't
an absolute requirement.



Mike
--
o/ \\ // || ,_ o Mike Clark, "An antibody engineer who also
<\__,\\ // __o || / /\, likes the mountains"
"> || _`\<,_ // \\ \> | Cambridge Climbing and Caving Club
` || (_)/ (_) // \\ \_ <URL:http://www.path.cam.ac.uk/~mrc7/cccc/>
 
are right, I thought there might be a use for them in that sort of
situation. but aren't areas of ice like that rare in the lake district?. and
when it does snow up there isn't it more likely to only be a few inches
deep. so to me it seems like the only real use for an ice axe is to help
stop yourself if you start to fall down a very steep mountain side, but
would there be enough snow to use the axe properly?.
"Bernard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Andy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > the reason I asked is because I was up in the lake district wild camping

> in
> > February this year and on the way back down I noticed several people who

> had
> > ice axes attached to there backpacks, and I couldn't help wondering what

> the
> > point of carrying them up there was, as there was probably no more than
> > twenty square feet of snow up there!. I also noticed what I believe were
> > marks from crampons on a lot of the rocks on the paths. surely even if

it
> > had snowed heavily that day there wouldn't be enough snow to use

something
> > like that?. and aren't you at risk of impaling yourself on the thing

every
> > time you trip over?.
> > "Andy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > is it square to take a ice axe to the lake district?
> > >

> The people you saw would have set out prepared for the worst and in some
> years, on some of the fells, ice axes and crampons are extremely useful.
>
> About 8 years ago in February, we went up Helvellyn from Thirlemere, about
> 200 metres from the top there was what we thought was a covering of snow,
> when we reached it, it was frozen solid was virtually a sheet of ice and

was
> impossible to walk on without crampons, so we turned back. Anyone

covering
> any sort of distance over that ground would have found an ice axe

extremely
> useful if they had slipped.
>
> Regards
>
> Bernard
>
>
 
I was up on Striding Edge one April, and had to turn back, as the ridge was
covered with compacted ice - there had been a slight thaw then a re-freeze
the day before. People with crampons on hardly slowed down as they waltzed
past me. I was slipping and sliding, and it would have been suicidal to
carry on. So yes, crampons and ice axes are useful between October and April
in the Lake District . . .


--
Peace !

Steve Wilcox

"If Whisky Don't Kill Me I'll Live 'Til I Die"

[email protected]
 
"Andy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> are right, I thought there might be a use for them in that sort of
> situation. but aren't areas of ice like that rare in the lake

district?. and
> when it does snow up there isn't it more likely to only be a few

inches
> deep. so to me it seems like the only real use for an ice axe is to

help
> stop yourself if you start to fall down a very steep mountain side,

but
> would there be enough snow to use the axe properly?.


In most cases perhaps you are right, but who can tell how the weather
will turn? There is nothing wrong with taking an axe and crampons just
in case - especially in February. I've done Striding Edge when
conditions were superb (ie, lots of hard snow and ice) and there was
no indication at ground level of anything other than slush.

Graham
 
well I've read that there are ways that ice axes can be used to stop
yourself if you start to fall on steep slopes, but does they amount of snow
needed to do that matter. and would not using an axe to help stop yourself
work just as well in most conditions.
"Mike Clark" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, Andy
> <URL:mailto:[email protected]> wrote:
> > are right, I thought there might be a use for them in that sort of
> > situation. but aren't areas of ice like that rare in the lake
> > district?.

>
> Not that rare in winter. The real problem is that conditions are very
> changeable. You could have sun, snow and rain all within a few hours of
> each other. I've certainly been in the Lake District with several inches
> of firm snow on the summits.
>
> > and when it does snow up there isn't it more likely to only be a few
> > inches deep.

>
> Quite possibly.
>
> > so to me it seems like the only real use for an ice axe is to help
> > stop yourself if you start to fall down a very steep mountain side,

>
> Yes that is a very valid use for an ice axe, particular a walking axe.
>
> > but would there be enough snow to use the axe properly?.

>
> Define what you mean by properly? Do you mean use of a "walking axe" or
> use of a technical "climbing axe", e.g. with a drop nose pick ? They are
> very different beasts with different intended uses.
>
> You can also use an axe quite effectively in frozen turf, so snow isn't
> an absolute requirement.
>
>
>
> Mike
> --
> o/ \\ // || ,_ o Mike Clark, "An antibody engineer who also
> <\__,\\ // __o || / /\, likes the mountains"
> "> || _`\<,_ // \\ \> | Cambridge Climbing and Caving Club
> ` || (_)/ (_) // \\ \_ <URL:http://www.path.cam.ac.uk/~mrc7/cccc/>
>
 
On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 19:44:16 GMT, Andy wrote:

>"Mike Clark" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> In article <[email protected]>, Andy


>> > but would there be enough snow to use the axe properly?.

>>
>> Define what you mean by properly? Do you mean use of a "walking axe" or
>> use of a technical "climbing axe", e.g. with a drop nose pick ? They are
>> very different beasts with different intended uses.
>>
>> You can also use an axe quite effectively in frozen turf, so snow isn't
>> an absolute requirement.


>well I've read that there are ways that ice axes can be used to stop
>yourself if you start to fall on steep slopes, but does they amount of snow
>needed to do that matter. and would not using an axe to help stop yourself
>work just as well in most conditions.


You need a certain amount of hard snow to make a self arrest in but
even if there isn't enough snow for that a walker's axe can be mighty
useful used as a short pole to aid an ascent or descent over steep
ground.
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"
 
Andy wrote:
> the reason I asked is because I was up in the lake district wild camping in
> February this year and on the way back down I noticed several people who had
> ice axes attached to there backpacks, and I couldn't help wondering what the
> point of carrying them up there was, as there was probably no more than
> twenty square feet of snow up there!.


Unfortunately a judgment of the conditions every step of a route can be
tricky from the bottom of the path. On one occasion I left my axe in
the car because there was no snow to be seen and I had some, ummm,
"interesting" moments later on when I had to cut myself steps with a
handy rock. Nul Points for brains there...

> I also noticed what I believe were
> marks from crampons on a lot of the rocks on the paths. surely even if it
> had snowed heavily that day there wouldn't be enough snow to use something
> like that?.


Most use I've had from crampons in a day was actually after a major
thaw, which suddenly turned cold. Pretty much the whole of Lochnagar
was covered in one huge sheet of water ice, and progress would have been
impossible without them. Crampons are for ice, not snow, and all you
need for ice is water and cold.

> and aren't you at risk of impaling yourself on the thing every
> time you trip over?.


Yes, which is why you shouldn't take them when you /know/ you won't need
them. But you often don't know...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
 
Andy wrote:
> well I've read that there are ways that ice axes can be used to stop
> yourself if you start to fall on steep slopes


If you're going out in winter onto high tops and you don't know how to
use an ice axe (a) for stopping a slide to start with and (b) arresting
one which has started then you're really not doing yourself any favours.
You really should know how to use an axe before you head into the
hills over winter, unless you're willing to turn back as soon as snow
blocks the way.

> but does they amount of snow
> needed to do that matter. and would not using an axe to help stop yourself
> work just as well in most conditions.


Yes and no, respectively.
I'd do some reading up on using axes if I were you.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
 
In article <[email protected]>, Andy
<URL:mailto:[email protected]> wrote:
> well I've read that there are ways that ice axes can be used to stop
> yourself if you start to fall on steep slopes, but does they amount of
> snow needed to do that matter. and would not using an axe to help stop
> yourself work just as well in most conditions.


I think if you're venturing out onto the Lake District hills in winter
then you should really make sure you know how to use axe and crampons
properly so that your first encounter is not your last.

Reading up on the correct useage is a start, but better still is
practice under controlled conditions where you have a safe runnout.
Better still seek expert tuition, there are many winter skills courses
available.

The key to safe travel under winter (or summer Alpine) conditions is
knowing when and how to use axe and crampons.


Mike <URL:http://www.path.cam.ac.uk/~mrc7/>
--
o/ \\ // |\ ,_ o Mike Clark
<\__,\\ // __o | \ / /\, "A mountain climbing, cycling, skiing,
"> || _`\<,_ |__\ \> | immunology lecturer, antibody engineer and
` || (_)/ (_) | \corn computer user"
 
Following up to Andy

> but aren't areas of ice like that rare in the lake district?. and
>when it does snow up there isn't it more likely to only be a few inches
>deep. so to me it seems like the only real use for an ice axe is to help
>stop yourself if you start to fall down a very steep mountain side, but
>would there be enough snow to use the axe properly?.


"http://www.fellwalk.co.uk\esk140.htm"

and that's at road level!
--
Mike Reid
If god wanted us to be vegetarians he wouldn't have made animals out of meat.
Wasdale-Lake district-Thames path-London "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
 
In article <[email protected]>, The Reids
<URL:mailto:[email protected]> wrote:
> Following up to Andy
>
> > but aren't areas of ice like that rare in the lake district?. and
> >when it does snow up there isn't it more likely to only be a few inches
> >deep. so to me it seems like the only real use for an ice axe is to help
> >stop yourself if you start to fall down a very steep mountain side, but
> >would there be enough snow to use the axe properly?.

>
> "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk\esk140.htm"
>
> and that's at road level!


I think you meant forward-slash not back-slash

<URL:http://www.fellwalk.co.uk/esk140.htm>

and on my site

<URL:http://www-immuno.path.cam.ac.uk/~mrc7/mikepics/xmas95.jpeg>

Mike
--
o/ \\ // || ,_ o
<\__,\\ // __o || / /\, Cambridge Climbing and Caving Club
"> || _`\<,_ // \\ \> |
` || (_)/ (_) // \\ \_ <URL:http://www.path.cam.ac.uk/~mrc7/cccc/>
 
"Andy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> the reason I asked is because I was up in the lake district wild camping

in
> February this year and on the way back down I noticed several people who

had
> ice axes attached to there backpacks, and I couldn't help wondering what

the
> point of carrying them up there was, as there was probably no more than
> twenty square feet of snow up there!. I also noticed what I believe were
> marks from crampons on a lot of the rocks on the paths.


<snip>

Likewise I was in the Lakes in Feb (Langdale) and saw a number of people
with ice-axe and crampons, however it was an organised trip for Scouts and
Scout Leaders to acquire some winter hill experience and be taught how to
use them properly. Unfortunately there was not enough of the white stuff to
really use them properly but that didn't mean they shouldn't have been
carried and used if necessary. (Weather on the Saturday was rain, sleet and
hail, with snow overnight but only had a short day on the Sunday so couldn't
really get the advantage from it)

Hoping for a good covering next year :)

Phil Dowrick
 
Following up to Mike Clark

>> "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk\esk140.htm"
>>
>> and that's at road level!

>
>I think you meant forward-slash not back-slash
>
><URL:http://www.fellwalk.co.uk/esk140.htm>


that's what comes of converting the local address to the web
address. Thanks!
--
Mike Reid
If god wanted us to be vegetarians he wouldn't have made animals out of meat.
Wasdale-Lake district-Thames path-London "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap