Icky RI laws

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Rick Onanian, Oct 14, 2003.

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  1. Rick Onanian

    Rick Onanian Guest

    Well, while researching that last reply to Chalo about the cyclist-cyclist crash when one stopped in
    a group century, I stumbled across these terrible laws in Rhode Island:

    Bicycles must stay to the right: http://www.rilin.state.ri.us/Statutes/TITLE31/31-19/31-19-6.HTM

    Bicycles must make dangerous, cyclist-killing left turns:
    http://www.rilin.state.ri.us/Statutes/TITLE31/31-19/31-19-15.HTM

    Wow! That's pretty terrible. However, here's one that I'll take advantage of on scary roads:
    Bicycles may use the sidewalk: http://www.rilin.state.ri.us/Statutes/TITLE31/31-19/31-19-12.HTM We
    don't get any pedestrians on sidewalks anyway, especially on the scary roads that I'm afraid to
    ride. Route 2 in East Greenwich, south of Frenchtown Road comes to mind -- it's two fast lanes in
    each direction, both narrow, no shoulder, high traffic. There's an unused sidewalk for some of this
    section...now if only they'd extend it the rest of the way, it would be tolerable to cycle from
    Division Rd all the way south to as far as I've ever gone.

    I guess I'll have to print out that law and keep it with me when riding.
    --
    Rick "Sidewalk? Sideride!" Onanian
     
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  2. djones425

    djones425 New Member

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    Those are very bad laws indeed. I recently finished a tour through Rhode Island and was unaware of these. I'm glad I was. I might have been killed trying to follow the left hand law.
    I would appreciate it if you could complain to your state reps about this. I live in Mass so have no standing; otherwise, you can be sure I would vigorously work to change these. You might want to contact the League of American Bicyclists as well.
     
  3. pig pog

    pig pog New Member

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    but I am a little confused. 31-19-15 says " Left turns. – (a) A person riding a bicycle intending to turn left shall, unless he or she complies with the provisions of § 31-16-2, approach the turn in a position as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway..."

    31-16-2 prescribes a more conventional approach to off-side turns for "Motor and Other vehicles"

    Which all seems to be saying cyclists should make a turn in this stupid way, unless they choose to do it in a more sensible way. Which doesn't sound logical at all. Does anyone else read it the same way?

    best wishes
    james
     
  4. Ed Roy

    Ed Roy New Member

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  5. Ed Roy

    Ed Roy New Member

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    Hi, Rhode Islander here, Coventry, I doubt that
    any cop will cite you for a violation but, always keep an eye out
    for those terrible Rhode Island drivers. I try to plan my long rides
    to be out of traffic as much as possible to avoid any potential
    crashes.
     
  6. If I read 31-19-15 correctly it seems to indicate that 31-16-2 supercedes
    it. Therefore, the following applies...

    (2) Left turns on two-way roadways. (i) At any intersection where traffic is permitted to move in
    both directions on each roadway entering the intersections, an approach for a left turn shall be
    made in that portion of the right half of the roadway nearest the center line of it and by
    passing to the right of the center line where it enters the intersection, and, after entering
    the intersection, the left turn shall be made so as to leave the intersection to the right of
    the center line of the roadway being entered. Whenever practicable the left turn shall be made
    in that portion of the intersection to the left of the center of the intersection.

    On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 20:06:52 -0400, Rick Onanian wrote:

    > Well, while researching that last reply to Chalo about the cyclist-cyclist crash when one stopped
    > in a group century, I stumbled across these terrible laws in Rhode Island:
    >
    > Bicycles must stay to the right: http://www.rilin.state.ri.us/Statutes/TITLE31/31-19/31-19-6.HTM
    >
    > Bicycles must make dangerous, cyclist-killing left turns:
    > http://www.rilin.state.ri.us/Statutes/TITLE31/31-19/31-19-15.HTM
    >
    > Wow! That's pretty terrible. However, here's one that I'll take advantage of on scary roads:
    > Bicycles may use the sidewalk: http://www.rilin.state.ri.us/Statutes/TITLE31/31-19/31-19-12.HTM We
    > don't get any pedestrians on sidewalks anyway, especially on the scary roads that I'm afraid to
    > ride. Route 2 in East Greenwich, south of Frenchtown Road comes to mind -- it's two fast lanes in
    > each direction, both narrow, no shoulder, high traffic. There's an unused sidewalk for some of
    > this section...now if only they'd extend it the rest of the way, it would be tolerable to cycle
    > from Division Rd all the way south to as far as I've ever gone.
    >
    > I guess I'll have to print out that law and keep it with me when riding.

    --
    Dick Schoeller mailto:[email protected] http://schoeller.ne.client2.attbi.com/
    2.1.5476
     
  7. Rick Onanian

    Rick Onanian Guest

    On 16 Oct 2003 00:22:38 +0950, Ed Roy <[email protected]> wrote:
    > Hi, Rhode Islander here, Coventry, I doubt that any cop will cite you for a violation but, always
    > keep an eye out for those terrible Rhode Island drivers. I try to plan my long rides to be out of
    > traffic as much as possible to avoid any potential crashes.

    They're not terrible RI drivers; they're just terrible drivers. They exist elsewhere, although we
    like to take credit for their sole existence (just like the "Rhode Island Rolling Stop", which is
    just as common in other states, etc).

    That said, they all are out of the woodwork today. Twice, watched people signal left for a right
    move, and I watched one lady who was completely unable to parallel park her Camry in a space big
    enough for my full size pickup...she kept on trying to do it on the forward stroke, rather than the
    reverse, which resulted in her just edging farther and farther away from the curb.

    She finally gave up with her car 4 feet from the curb and left it there.
    --
    Rick Onanian
     
  8. On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 20:06:52 +0000, Rick Onanian wrote:

    > Well, while researching that last reply to Chalo about the cyclist-cyclist crash when one stopped
    > in a group century, I stumbled across these terrible laws in Rhode Island:
    >
    > Bicycles must stay to the right: http://www.rilin.state.ri.us/Statutes/TITLE31/31-19/31-19-6.HTM

    This is standard verbiage, except that on one-way roads cyclists are usually allowed to ride as
    close as practicable to the left edge. Also, when turning, cyclists are usually allowed into a left
    lane or left-turn lane.
    >
    > Bicycles must make dangerous, cyclist-killing left turns:
    > http://www.rilin.state.ri.us/Statutes/TITLE31/31-19/31-19-15.HTM

    That is horrid. You _have_ to make left turns from the right edge of the road. If there is a light,
    you have to cross, wait for the light to change and cross again. These laws do not conform to
    standard code.

    --

    David L. Johnson

    __o | If all economists were laid end to end, they would not reach a _`\(,_ | conclusion. --
    George Bernard Shaw (_)/ (_) |
     
  9. On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 00:21:56 +0000, Dick Schoeller wrote:

    > If I read 31-19-15 correctly it seems to indicate that 31-16-2 supercedes
    > it. Therefore, the following applies...
    >
    > (2) Left turns on two-way roadways. (i) At any intersection where traffic is permitted to move in
    > both directions on each roadway entering the intersections, an approach for a left turn shall
    > be made in that portion of the right half of the roadway nearest the center line of it and by
    > passing to the right of the center line where it enters the intersection, and, after entering
    > the intersection, the left turn shall be made so as to leave the intersection to the right of
    > the center line of the roadway being entered. Whenever practicable the left turn shall be made
    > in that portion of the intersection to the left of the center of the
    intersection.

    Then what is that other law about? One-way roads? You still have a mess if turning onto a one-way
    road according to that law. Also, I presume that nonsense about intersections controlled by a light
    would still apply.

    --

    David L. Johnson

    __o | As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not _`\(,_ | certain, and as
    far as they are certain, they do not refer to (_)/ (_) | reality. -- Albert Einstein
     
  10. Paul Turner

    Paul Turner Guest

    Section 31-16-2 describes the normal way of making a left turn from close to the center line, and
    it applies to all vehicles, including bicycles. Section 31-19-15 then gives bicycles an alternative
    way of making a turn. It starts out with the words, "A person riding a bicycle intending to turn
    left shall, unless he or she complies with the provisions of section 31-16-2," and goes on to
    describe the clumsy, double crossing method. So if you use the section 31-16-2 procedure of turning
    from the near the center line, you don't have to follow section 31-19-15. It's a second option, not
    the only choice.

    I have to admit, there have been plenty of times, especially on multi-lane streets, when I haven't
    had the skills or the foresight (or maybe the guts) to work my way to the left in time and I've had
    to make a two-step left turn.

    --
    Paul Turner
     
  11. David Kerber

    David Kerber Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    > Well, while researching that last reply to Chalo about the cyclist-cyclist crash when one stopped
    > in a group century, I stumbled across these terrible laws in Rhode Island:
    >
    > Bicycles must stay to the right: http://www.rilin.state.ri.us/Statutes/TITLE31/31-19/31-19-6.HTM
    >
    > Bicycles must make dangerous, cyclist-killing left turns:
    > http://www.rilin.state.ri.us/Statutes/TITLE31/31-19/31-19-15.HTM
    >
    > Wow! That's pretty terrible. However, here's one that I'll take advantage of on scary roads:
    > Bicycles may use the sidewalk: http://www.rilin.state.ri.us/Statutes/TITLE31/31-19/31-19-12.HTM We
    > don't get any pedestrians on sidewalks anyway, especially on the scary roads that I'm afraid to
    > ride. Route 2 in East Greenwich, south of Frenchtown Road comes to mind -- it's two fast lanes in
    > each direction, both narrow, no shoulder, high traffic. There's an unused sidewalk for some of
    > this section...now if only they'd extend it the rest of the way, it would be tolerable to cycle
    > from Division Rd all the way south to as far as I've ever gone.

    The key phrase in all those laws you quoted is "as close as practicable". I don't consider it
    practicable to make a left turn off of Boston Neck Road from the right shoulder. The only reasonable
    way is from the traffic lane (or left turn lane where it exists).

    > I guess I'll have to print out that law and keep it with me when riding.
    > --
    > Rick "Sidewalk? Sideride!" Onanian

    --
    Dave Kerber Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

    REAL programmers write self-modifying code.
     
  12. David Kerber

    David Kerber Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...

    ...

    > http://www.rilin.state.ri.us/Statutes/TITLE31/31-19/31-19-12.HTM We don't get any pedestrians on
    > sidewalks anyway, especially on the scary roads that I'm afraid to ride. Route 2 in East
    > Greenwich, south of Frenchtown Road comes to mind -- it's two fast lanes in each direction, both
    > narrow, no shoulder, high traffic. There's an unused sidewalk for some of this section...now if
    > only they'd extend it the rest of the way, it would be tolerable to cycle from Division Rd all the
    > way south to as far as I've ever gone.

    I wonder how Block Island got that special provision put in there just for them?

    > --
    > Rick "Sidewalk? Sideride!" Onanian

    --
    Dave Kerber Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

    REAL programmers write self-modifying code.
     
  13. H. M. Leary

    H. M. Leary Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, Rick Onanian <[email protected]> wrote:

    snip
    >
    > They're not terrible RI drivers; they're just terrible drivers. They exist elsewhere, although we
    > like to take credit for their sole existence (just like the "Rhode Island Rolling Stop", which is
    > just as common in other states, etc).
    >
    snip

    > Rick Onanian

    The worst drivers, even though they me be the nicest people, are in the New Bedford area of
    Mass. (USA).

    The gretest driving hazards are in RI, although the State does warn you.

    BUMP!

    Have A Nice Day!

    --
    "Freedom Is a Light for Which Many Have Died in Darkness"

    - Tomb of the unknown - American Revolution
     
  14. Rick Onanian

    Rick Onanian Guest

    On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:50:05 GMT, "H. M. Leary" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >The worst drivers, even though they me be the nicest people, are in the New Bedford area of
    >Mass. (USA).

    I spend a lot of time driving in New Bedford (my company does a lot of work there), and I haven't
    had much of a problem. The only issue has been that there's never a traffic light where you need it,
    and the traffic moves fast; and I seem to go there in a dumptruck as often as a pickup; so it's a
    bit tough turning left.

    >The gretest driving hazards are in RI, although the State does warn you. BUMP!

    I believe the rule is: The smaller the possible bump, the more likely there is to be a "Bump" sign
    to make everybody stop. If it's a drop-off from one layer of pavement to a lower layer, where your
    best bet is to just keep going your speed, there will definitely be a "Bump" sign. If it's the
    opposite side of that, with a 2" high sharp-edged tire-destroying mesa, then there is guaranteed to
    be no sign.

    >Have A Nice Day!
    --
    Rick Onanian
     
  15. H. M. Leary

    H. M. Leary Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, Rick Onanian <[email protected]> wrote:

    > On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:50:05 GMT, "H. M. Leary" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >The worst drivers, even though they me be the nicest people, are in the New Bedford area of
    > >Mass. (USA).
    >
    > I spend a lot of time driving in New Bedford (my company does a lot of work there), and I haven't
    > had much of a problem. The only issue has been that there's never a traffic light where you need
    > it, and the traffic moves fast; and I seem to go there in a dumptruck as often as a pickup; so
    > it's a bit tough turning left.
    >
    > >The gretest driving hazards are in RI, although the State does warn you. BUMP!
    >
    > I believe the rule is: The smaller the possible bump, the more likely there is to be a "Bump" sign
    > to make everybody stop. If it's a drop-off from one layer of pavement to a lower layer, where your
    > best bet is to just keep going your speed, there will definitely be a "Bump" sign. If it's the
    > opposite side of that, with a 2" high sharp-edged tire-destroying mesa, then there is guaranteed
    > to be no sign.
    >
    > >Have A Nice Day!
    > --
    > Rick Onanian

    Yeah!

    Like the Jamestown Saunderstown Bridge boondoogle.

    Rick, have you ever ridden 138 eastbound from Kingston??

    HAND

    --
    "Freedom Is a Light for Which Many Have Died in Darkness"

    - Tomb of the unknown - American Revolution
     
  16. Rick Onanian

    Rick Onanian Guest

    On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 13:51:18 GMT, "H. M. Leary" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >Rick, have you ever ridden 138 eastbound from Kingston??

    Probably. I had a couple meandering, "get lost" rides where I know I spent a lot of time on 138 in
    that general area, but to pinpoint exactly...I don't recall.
    --
    Rick Onanian
     
  17. David Kerber

    David Kerber Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    > On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 13:51:18 GMT, "H. M. Leary" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >Rick, have you ever ridden 138 eastbound from Kingston??
    >
    > Probably. I had a couple meandering, "get lost" rides where I know I spent a lot of time on 138 in
    > that general area, but to pinpoint exactly...I don't recall.
    > --
    > Rick Onanian

    I drive that section all the time, and I would have to be pretty desperate to ride that section on a
    bike: 45 - 50 mph moderate-to-heavy traffic, and no shoulder.

    --
    Dave Kerber Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

    REAL programmers write self-modifying code.
     
  18. Rick Onanian

    Rick Onanian Guest

    On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 10:17:40 -0400, David Kerber <[email protected]_ids.net> wrote:
    >> On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 13:51:18 GMT, "H. M. Leary" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> >Rick, have you ever ridden 138 eastbound from Kingston??
    >>
    >> Probably. I had a couple meandering, "get lost" rides where I know I spent a lot of time on 138
    >> in that general area, but to pinpoint exactly...I don't recall.
    >
    >I drive that section all the time, and I would have to be pretty desperate to ride that section on
    >a bike: 45 - 50 mph moderate-to-heavy traffic, and no shoulder.

    Sounds like Route 2 just south of my house. I only rode there once; it was really scary, but I was
    going home from one of my bonked, failed century attempts, and I didn't have the energy to battle
    the hills on the better roads. Now I think I'd just start making phone calls and hope somebody comes
    for me, rather than ride that section again...
    --
    Rick Onanian
     
  19. David Kerber

    David Kerber Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    > On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 10:17:40 -0400, David Kerber <[email protected]_ids.net> wrote:
    > >> On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 13:51:18 GMT, "H. M. Leary" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >> >Rick, have you ever ridden 138 eastbound from Kingston??
    > >>
    > >> Probably. I had a couple meandering, "get lost" rides where I know I spent a lot of time on 138
    > >> in that general area, but to pinpoint exactly...I don't recall.
    > >
    > >I drive that section all the time, and I would have to be pretty desperate to ride that section
    > >on a bike: 45 - 50 mph moderate-to-heavy traffic, and no shoulder.
    >
    > Sounds like Route 2 just south of my house. I only rode there once; it was really scary, but I was
    > going home from one of my bonked, failed century attempts, and I didn't have the energy to battle
    > the hills on the better roads. Now I think I'd just start making phone calls and hope somebody
    > comes for me, rather than ride that section again...

    Isn't most of Rt 2 a 4-lane in that area? If so, that's better than 138's 2-lanes.

    > --
    > Rick Onanian
    >

    --
    Dave Kerber Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

    REAL programmers write self-modifying code.
     
  20. Rick Onanian

    Rick Onanian Guest

    On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 19:40:05 -0400, David Kerber <[email protected]_ids.net> wrote:
    >> Sounds like Route 2 just south of my house. I only rode there once; it was really scary, but I
    >> was going home from one of my bonked, failed century attempts, and I didn't have the energy to
    >> battle the hills on the better roads. Now I think I'd just start making phone calls and hope
    >> somebody comes for me, rather than ride that section again...
    >
    >Isn't most of Rt 2 a 4-lane in that area? If so, that's better than 138's 2-lanes.

    Yes, I was thinking 2 lanes in each direction. They're narrow lanes, no shoulder, and there's
    usually parallel traffic in them.

    Just north of me, they narrowed it a few years back from four lanes to two, with really wide
    shoulders and broken-yellow passing zones. I really ought to bike in that direction someday, but
    it's uphill the whole way.
    --
    Rick Onanian
     
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