Does anyone have any imput into the use of steroids in racing? I.E. Any stories, suggestions, etc. No need to bash, only serious replies please.
Ideas about steroids
- Thread starter guttyracing
- Start date
If you are looking for drug profiles and general stories about using different types of juice then try http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/
Most of the post are from extreme meat heads which bench press 400 pounds at will, but it's a good place to gain knowledge about performance enhancing drugs.
Most of the post are from extreme meat heads which bench press 400 pounds at will, but it's a good place to gain knowledge about performance enhancing drugs.
Steroids for cycling racing? Or what type of racing are you talking about using them for?guttyracing said:
I was wondering the same thing.Orange Fish said:
I used steroids for 10+ years to compete in bodybuilding competitions. My experience with the use was perfect for adding muscle size and the fact that I was able to recover very quickly allowing me to train much harder.
However, based on my experience and common conversations with others who train in strength type events I find it hard to believe that androgens or these type of anabolics are beneficial to endurance events. But then again there are a large variety of drugs available and now some are designer drugs like the Balco Labs scandal that involve baseball players and track sprinters. These drugs are beneficial to sprinters, but if you notice the events that involve endurance are lean and lanky.
My experience with steroids was almost painful at times. My legs would literally pump up walking to the water fountain. My lower back was always tight. My breathing became labored. All these things happened as the muscle tissue and subcutaneous tissue began to retain more water. Just walking became an extra effort and my blood pressure was up due to the effects as well. So it is hard for me as a newbie to cycling to see how steroids can be beneficial to endurance cycling, but I could see how it could be beneficial to a short sprint.
As I stated that there a large variety of drugs that are used and I have used many of the popular, but there may be some that I am unware of that may work in a different manner (Note - I have been away from the drug scene for a number of years so there could be new items available that I dont know about.). Or there is a way to administer the drugs that could lessen the side effects that are negative to endurance events.
I must say that I have gone down this road and I am not proud of it. I have a room full of 1st place trophies that are now collecting dust and yet I risked many things. My first wife divorced me because I could not control my temper and I was selfish to the up most. I found myself becoming a dealer to ensure that I was getting real drugs because much of what is sold is fake. So I risked my freedom and my health. There are many things to consider, but looking back now it was a road that I didn't need to go down and it is my suggestion to stay out of it.
Felt_Rider said:I was wondering the same thing.
I used steroids for 10+ years to compete in bodybuilding competitions. My experience with the use was perfect for adding muscle size and the fact that I was able to recover very quickly allowing me to train much harder.
However, based on my experience and common conversations with others who train in strength type events I find it hard to believe that androgens or these type of anabolics are beneficial to endurance events. But then again there are a large variety of drugs available and now some are designer drugs like the Balco Labs scandal that involve baseball players and track sprinters. These drugs are beneficial to sprinters, but if you notice the events that involve endurance are lean and lanky.
My experience with steroids was almost painful at times. My legs would literally pump up walking to the water fountain. My lower back was always tight. My breathing became labored. All these things happened as the muscle tissue and subcutaneous tissue began to retain more water. Just walking became an extra effort and my blood pressure was up due to the effects as well. So it is hard for me as a newbie to cycling to see how steroids can be beneficial to endurance cycling, but I could see how it could be beneficial to a short sprint.
As I stated that there a large variety of drugs that are used and I have used many of the popular, but there may be some that I am unware of that may work in a different manner (Note - I have been away from the drug scene for a number of years so there could be new items available that I dont know about.). Or there is a way to administer the drugs that could lessen the side effects that are negative to endurance events.
I must say that I have gone down this road and I am not proud of it. I have a room full of 1st place trophies that are now collecting dust and yet I risked many things. My first wife divorced me because I could not control my temper and I was selfish to the up most. I found myself becoming a dealer to ensure that I was getting real drugs because much of what is sold is fake. So I risked my freedom and my health. There are many things to consider, but looking back now it was a road that I didn't need to go down and it is my suggestion to stay out of it.
Good, sensible post.
Wonder if there is stuff out there to let you drop fat quickly without loosing any muscular strength. That is the only thing i could imagine a cycist wanting to use steroids for, or maybe as a recovery agent. figure most riders pack on a little weight in the off season, and then have to spend a lot of base trying to get it off, probably to the deficit of their training, so pop some pills or a little shot here and there, and you loose that weight, retain all muscle and are leaner and meaner than last year. Also recovery is key to cycling, so i imagine the faster you can recover from a killer workout the sooner you can do another and the better you get. I don't know if these things are out there, but like you said the side effects sound like they suck, so it's not worth it.
There are steroids that will increase your speed, endurance, strength, recovery time, etc. Some strengthen muscles, some strengthen connective tissue, some increase a positive nitrogen balance and the amount of red blood cells so your blood can carry more O2 - much like EPO does but IMHO safer than EPO - which doesn't say much.
Also there is gear that will cause cutting to make you lean and also strong.
The problem is it's all readily available and often just a mouse click away but it requires extensive knowledge to deal with the side effects.
FYI, the biggest numbers of users are weekend warriors looking for shortcuts.
Also there is gear that will cause cutting to make you lean and also strong.
The problem is it's all readily available and often just a mouse click away but it requires extensive knowledge to deal with the side effects.
FYI, the biggest numbers of users are weekend warriors looking for shortcuts.
I know this is just semantics, but in my experience many people lump anything related to perfomance enhancement drugs into the steroid category. I even hear the media doing this as well when they will state a particular drug and then call it a steroid.
I have heard stimulants and blood doping also referenced as steroids and many others, but truthfully these are not in the same category of drugs.
Androgens and anabolic steroids which are commonly used by weight lifters, bodybuilders, track sprinters and other type of events that would not be of an endurance nature. Not saying that perhaps some endurance athletes have not experimented, but I would say that blood doping and other class of drugs would be more beneficial.
Please read the following page and see the paragraph "Anabolic Steroids and Performance" and you will see the statement that there is no proof that steroids will increase oxygen capacity or enhance endurance.
http://www.sportsci.org/encyc/anabster/anabster.html
I have heard stimulants and blood doping also referenced as steroids and many others, but truthfully these are not in the same category of drugs.
Androgens and anabolic steroids which are commonly used by weight lifters, bodybuilders, track sprinters and other type of events that would not be of an endurance nature. Not saying that perhaps some endurance athletes have not experimented, but I would say that blood doping and other class of drugs would be more beneficial.
Please read the following page and see the paragraph "Anabolic Steroids and Performance" and you will see the statement that there is no proof that steroids will increase oxygen capacity or enhance endurance.
http://www.sportsci.org/encyc/anabster/anabster.html
Steroids, particularly anabolic, are effective for endurance training. They enhance recovery, and the quicker you recover the sooner you can train again.
Body builders take huge quantities, hundreds of times the natural amount found in their bodies, and then mix cocktails of them to achieve sheer size not fitness.
Body builders take huge quantities, hundreds of times the natural amount found in their bodies, and then mix cocktails of them to achieve sheer size not fitness.
No doubt one of the key benefits to anabolics is the recovery aspect, but show me a medical study that proves that anabolic users have improved endurance. This does not include drugs outside the classification of steroids, such as, EPO.ElRamon said:
Again and again I have yet to see a legitimate medical study that proves that anabolics will improve an athlete for an endurance event.
I have a lot of years behind me in personal use and study and I am not convinced that the use is a true benefit for an endurance event rather than a perceived benefit. Sure I can forumulate a stacked cycle that would reduce the side effects of edema and have less impact on blood pressure, but will the gain be enough to out weigh the risks?
The studies that I find support my own experiences and research.
Anyone who finds a legitimate study that contradicts this notion please post it. I will admit that I don't know everything and I am always willing to read to be informed.
http://www.acsm.org/publications/newsreleases2004/steroids071404.htm
http://aappolicy.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/pediatrics;99/6/904
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=798110&dopt=Abstract
http://www.acsm-msse.com/pt/re/msse/abstract.00005768-200408000-00011.htm;jsessionid=CR6ZULqYRai4Zk97KPmd59IR2HUiiIshobwXCgZy26812huQXUNS!-133135985!-949856032!9001!-1
That was why I posted that particular link. Because I was trying to find something to support the argument and that was the closest study that I found to support something to that effect.
I really try to not be biased in my research. With as much data available one can find links to support their argument.
However, the way I read the conclusion is that it does not increase SRE in untrained rats. They do state that submaximal training did increase with the use of AAS (anabolics) more than training alone, but with no increased effect on Vo2max or oxygen carrying capacity of blood. The study ends stating that it "suggest" the improvement is due to the impact of AAS. The word "suggest" does not imply that the results are conclusive. Reading these studies can be difficult and perhaps I am failing to read this properly, but I did not get from this article that the study is conclusive.
Again I tried to find something to support your statement and not just your statement, but to find the truth about anabolics as I have been involved with this research for many years.
This is something I find interesting and I will keep looking on the web since I do not have access to a Universty Library and all the sport medicine journals that are available.
Again I could formulate a "stacked cycle" that may or may not enhance a competitive cyclist, but will the gains be sufficient for the risks.
Realistically I would never give support to an athlete desiring to use banned substances in a tested event against athletes who are trying to be legitimate with natural training.
I do consult athletes regarding AAS in events that banned substances are widely used and are not tested for events.
I really try to not be biased in my research. With as much data available one can find links to support their argument.
However, the way I read the conclusion is that it does not increase SRE in untrained rats. They do state that submaximal training did increase with the use of AAS (anabolics) more than training alone, but with no increased effect on Vo2max or oxygen carrying capacity of blood. The study ends stating that it "suggest" the improvement is due to the impact of AAS. The word "suggest" does not imply that the results are conclusive. Reading these studies can be difficult and perhaps I am failing to read this properly, but I did not get from this article that the study is conclusive.
Again I tried to find something to support your statement and not just your statement, but to find the truth about anabolics as I have been involved with this research for many years.
This is something I find interesting and I will keep looking on the web since I do not have access to a Universty Library and all the sport medicine journals that are available.
Again I could formulate a "stacked cycle" that may or may not enhance a competitive cyclist, but will the gains be sufficient for the risks.
Realistically I would never give support to an athlete desiring to use banned substances in a tested event against athletes who are trying to be legitimate with natural training.
I do consult athletes regarding AAS in events that banned substances are widely used and are not tested for events.
It also suggests to me that VO2 max and the O2 carrying capacity of the blood are not the only markers for endurance. So they could perhaps be looking in the wrong area regarding anabolics.
You, yourself must have noticed when weight training, that on the juice 4 hour plus sessions in the gym are easily do able. This is also endurance. Couple that with aerobic training and..
As regards studies, there probably are none. Only the stuff that team doctors and soigneurs know?
I too consult athletes.
You, yourself must have noticed when weight training, that on the juice 4 hour plus sessions in the gym are easily do able. This is also endurance. Couple that with aerobic training and..
As regards studies, there probably are none. Only the stuff that team doctors and soigneurs know?
I too consult athletes.
I am finding out that my muscle mass also has a negative effect on my ability on the bike. My endurance is not sustained and my extra weight on the bike is a negative and not a positive.
Ironically as I have been weight training for over 22 years I have gained a lot of strength, but to be honest the strength is not sustained over a period of time. Weight training for me is no longer than an hour with small amounts of rest between sets and is not like riding for 3 hours straight with hill climbs. There have been other discussions on weight training (positive / negative) concerning off season cycling training and the addition of muscle mass. It appears that the coaches seem to concur that the extra muscle mass on the bike is not beneficial for the elite cyclist. I just started reading Lance's book and he implys that his loss of muscle mass fighting cancer may have been the biggest turning point of his career. Did he become better by becoming lighter?
My experience and knowledge base is in the strength and bodybuilding arena and though I can carry some knowledge across to cycling or endurance events I fully realize that when it comes to the finer points of sports specific training I will step aside and let the cycling coaches on this site be the teacher and I will be the student.
From my attempts to learn a whole new realm of endurance training I am getting the point that an increase of muscle mass may be more detrimental than good. That is why I kept mentioning weighing the benefits of using AAS to the negative points.
Let me also point out that the risks that I mention are not necessarily health risks, but more of legal risks. Of course that depends on what the laws are in a particular country.
Ironically as I have been weight training for over 22 years I have gained a lot of strength, but to be honest the strength is not sustained over a period of time. Weight training for me is no longer than an hour with small amounts of rest between sets and is not like riding for 3 hours straight with hill climbs. There have been other discussions on weight training (positive / negative) concerning off season cycling training and the addition of muscle mass. It appears that the coaches seem to concur that the extra muscle mass on the bike is not beneficial for the elite cyclist. I just started reading Lance's book and he implys that his loss of muscle mass fighting cancer may have been the biggest turning point of his career. Did he become better by becoming lighter?
My experience and knowledge base is in the strength and bodybuilding arena and though I can carry some knowledge across to cycling or endurance events I fully realize that when it comes to the finer points of sports specific training I will step aside and let the cycling coaches on this site be the teacher and I will be the student.
From my attempts to learn a whole new realm of endurance training I am getting the point that an increase of muscle mass may be more detrimental than good. That is why I kept mentioning weighing the benefits of using AAS to the negative points.
Let me also point out that the risks that I mention are not necessarily health risks, but more of legal risks. Of course that depends on what the laws are in a particular country.
I too have enjoyed the discussion.
The extra weight is undesirable, but there is no need for any gain. If one was to use steroids as anti-catabolic rather than anabolic. Then there is not weight gain via muscle growth but, muscle repair and recovery.
The testosterone patches tend to be used for this, it's more of replacing what is used rather than increasing.
The extra weight is undesirable, but there is no need for any gain. If one was to use steroids as anti-catabolic rather than anabolic. Then there is not weight gain via muscle growth but, muscle repair and recovery.
The testosterone patches tend to be used for this, it's more of replacing what is used rather than increasing.
I will agree on that point.
Used primarily as an anti-catabolic aide (which I realize was your initial point) could be very positive as long as body mass was monitored. Also it is doubtful that lean mass gain would be possible under intense endurance training except in those rare genetically blessed individuals that seem to grow no matter what they do like one of my good friends who is an IFBB womens pro competitor. She can grow on minimum or extreme conditions and very minimal dosages of AAS.
From my point I am thinking you could similar recovery results through proper nutrition and recovery techniques.
Perhaps something like Primabolan or Winstrol would be light enough to get those type of results without adverse effects or like you say the patch.
Used primarily as an anti-catabolic aide (which I realize was your initial point) could be very positive as long as body mass was monitored. Also it is doubtful that lean mass gain would be possible under intense endurance training except in those rare genetically blessed individuals that seem to grow no matter what they do like one of my good friends who is an IFBB womens pro competitor. She can grow on minimum or extreme conditions and very minimal dosages of AAS.
From my point I am thinking you could similar recovery results through proper nutrition and recovery techniques.
Perhaps something like Primabolan or Winstrol would be light enough to get those type of results without adverse effects or like you say the patch.
I wouldn't say i'm an expert of AAS...but i'm pretty damn close!
in general AAS are not for endurance...they will cause water retention and add bodyweight.
gh, IGF-1, EPO, Etc are better suited for endurance athletes
sprinters use steroids for the strength increases and lean muscle mass increases associated with their use.
AAS do increase RBC....but no one knows how much in vivo
in general AAS are not for endurance...they will cause water retention and add bodyweight.
gh, IGF-1, EPO, Etc are better suited for endurance athletes
sprinters use steroids for the strength increases and lean muscle mass increases associated with their use.
AAS do increase RBC....but no one knows how much in vivo
to make it short, steroids for body builders are not what you are looking for as an endurance athlete. the east german athletes have used glenbluterol. but there are also side effects to consider. one more advise, dont buy any drugs on the internet, because too many fakes are arround. sometimes it is worth wile to look at other methods to enhance your performance. For example you could try doing your power and strenghts training with vibration platforms www.bettervibrations.com I could think of many other methods, using natural products and staying drug free.
thor
thor
Not something i would consider persuing, i'd rather my gains and improvements be my own rather than down to other substances, i may never win races but i know i gave my training 100% and i have enjoyed my training and not put my health at risk.thor said:
http://www.stoneclinic.com/sam_e.htm
http://www.domesticgear.com/testosteronepropionate.html
Similar threads
