if chain wear were never a factor, how long would a cassette last?

[[email protected]]

so, conventional advice is, change chains often, save your cassette

my question is, if chain wear were never a factor, how long would a
cassette last?

say you changed the chain every 100 miles

the cassette is still bound to wear out some time, when would that be?

wle.

 

[Mark]

[email protected] wrote:
> so, conventional advice is, change chains often, save your cassette
>
> my question is, if chain wear were never a factor, how long would a
> cassette last?

Good question. Mine is at 20,000 miles and going strong. I don't
change chains all that often, but I clean the chain regularly.

> say you changed the chain every 100 miles
>
> the cassette is still bound to wear out some time, when would that be?

Ahh, a theoretical question.


Mark J.

 

[wle]

On Aug 14, 12:46 pm, Mark
<[email protected]> wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
> > so, conventional advice is, change chains often, save your cassette
>
> > my question is, if chain wear were never a factor, how long would a
> > cassette last?
>
> Good question. Mine is at 20,000 miles and going strong. I don't
> change chains all that often, but I clean the chain regularly.
>
> > say you changed the chain every 100 miles
>
> > the cassette is still bound to wear out some time, when would that be?
>
> Ahh, a theoretical question.
>
> Mark J.

yeah
i had a chain go to 14,000 miles with only 1/16 wear
it occurred to me that, average chain wear was .5/16, and the cassette
'saw' that for 14000 miles
the 3 cogs i use the most, skipped slightly on the new chain, so i
replaced them
so did that chain wear out the cassette, or was it past history plus
what that chain did?
it never violated the 1/16" rule -but it did go a long time with
slowly increasing wear
made me think
the cassettes do have to wear out some time
how much does chain-changing slow that down?

wle.

 

[[email protected]]

On Aug 14, 9:57 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
> so, conventional advice is, change chains often, save your cassette
>
> my question is, if chain wear were never a factor, how long would a
> cassette last?
>
> say you changed the chain every 100 miles
>
> the cassette is still bound to wear out some time, when would that be?
>
> wle.

Dear W,

Old-fashioned motorcycle primary chains ran in sealed oil baths. For
all practical purposes, such chains and gears lasted forever because
there was no grit in the oil to wear the metal surfaces.

It's the abrasive road dust whipped up by the tires that turns the oil
black on bicycle chains within ten miles and wears the moving parts of
the chain and the gear teeth.

The more the chain pins and rollers wear, the more the chain
lengthens, the more motion as they engage and disengage the gear
teeth, and the more work the abrasive grit can accomplish--the
transmission is just a gentle sanding machine that works better with
longer strokes.

Since your theoretical bicycle cassette is still exposed to road dust
carried by the new chain, the cassette will still eventually wear out,
but the gears will wear much more slowly because the constantly
renewed chain will not move as much as it engages and disengages from
the face of each gear tooth.

Replacing a chain every 100 miles would, of course, be pointless.
Assuming $10 chains, you'd spend $200 on chains in 2,000 miles in
hopes of lengthening the life of a cassette that cost well under $200.
More expensive cassettes usually involve more expensive chains, so
higher-priced equipment isn't going to change things, even if you
stopped every hundred miles to fit a new chain.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

 

[Colin Campbell]

Mark wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
>> so, conventional advice is, change chains often, save your cassette
>>
>> my question is, if chain wear were never a factor, how long would a
>> cassette last?
>
> Good question. Mine is at 20,000 miles and going strong. I don't
> change chains all that often, but I clean the chain regularly.
>
>> say you changed the chain every 100 miles
>>
>> the cassette is still bound to wear out some time, when would that be?
>
> Ahh, a theoretical question.
>
>
> Mark J.

I also have gotten what some people think of as "impossible" chain and
cassette life. My Campy Record chain was recently checked by my LBS
mechanic buddy, and he concurred with my finding that the chain was not
stretched past acceptable length. I have over 10,000 miles on that
chain and cassette. My newer bike has a bit over 5,000 miles on the
Campy Record chain and cassette that were installed together on the Trek
5200 (I swapped the Ultegra for Record throughout).

I clean the bikes about every third week, and I switch the bikes so that
usage is about equal. I ride every day (106 in a row as of today), so
I'd say I'm riding about ten times between cleanings. Since I'm in So
Cal, I never have to deal with rain between April and November, and
darned seldom in the other months.

Cleaning consists of spraying the chain, cassette, and chainrings with
Simple Green, rinsing, and lubing with Pedro's Ice Wax. The chain
doesn't seem to get "black" with road dirt and grime. I wipe it with a
paper towel, and the towel comes away gray in color, not black. The
chainrings, cassette, and pulley wheels stay pretty clean, too.

 

[velodancer]

In the last 15 years, I've replaced only one chain (although I have
had three bikes with a new drivechain on each). That chain replacement
was not because it had stretched, but because it had started pulling
pins loose. For the last 15 years I have been hot waxing my chains.
This process cleans them as well so I've never cleaned a chain as a
separate process. And because I'm now using quick connect links, I'm
assuming I will not have a repeat of the links coming loose from
repeated chain breaking to hot wax on the stove.

All in all, wax is wonderful. I would use it for the clean legs,
clothing, apartments, and cars; even if it did not work as well as
other lubes. But it works better! Probably not as a lube, but as a
dirt exclusion medium (which is what causes wear). My waxing schedule
is determined strictly by rain. No rain, I've gone well over 6 months.
And it is not much work, certainly less that the cleaning and lubing
process many cyclists go through. Only downside for me is on long
tours. I've tried at least a half a dozen "dry" lubes, not get enough
wax into the links after the solvent clears. They don't seem to be
good enough even for 100 miles with no rain.

Not had to replace a chainring or cogset in the last 15 years either!

 

[Bill Sornson]

Colin Campbell wrote:
> Mark wrote:
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>> so, conventional advice is, change chains often, save your cassette
>>>
>>> my question is, if chain wear were never a factor, how long would a
>>> cassette last?
>>
>> Good question. Mine is at 20,000 miles and going strong. I don't
>> change chains all that often, but I clean the chain regularly.
>>
>>> say you changed the chain every 100 miles
>>>
>>> the cassette is still bound to wear out some time, when would that
>>> be?
>>
>> Ahh, a theoretical question.
>>
>>
>> Mark J.
>
> I also have gotten what some people think of as "impossible" chain and
> cassette life. My Campy Record chain was recently checked by my LBS
> mechanic buddy, and he concurred with my finding that the chain was
> not stretched past acceptable length. I have over 10,000 miles on
> that chain and cassette. My newer bike has a bit over 5,000 miles on
> the Campy Record chain and cassette that were installed together on
> the Trek 5200 (I swapped the Ultegra for Record throughout).

This sounds exactly like my experience. One road bike has about 12,000
miles; newer one that gets ridden most nowadays has almost 8,000. DA chains
on both -- I think I changed one chain (from noisy SRAM to the DA) on the
older bike fairly early on. I've measured in my ham-fisted way, and can't
detect any "stretch" in either one. Two wheelsets, with Ultegra cassette on
older ones, DA on newer.

> I clean the bikes about every third week, and I switch the bikes so
> that usage is about equal. I ride every day (106 in a row as of
> today), so I'd say I'm riding about ten times between cleanings. Since I'm
> in So Cal, I never have to deal with rain between April and
> November, and darned seldom in the other months.

SoCal here, too. Virtually never ride in rain.

> Cleaning consists of spraying the chain, cassette, and chainrings with
> Simple Green, rinsing, and lubing with Pedro's Ice Wax. The chain
> doesn't seem to get "black" with road dirt and grime. I wipe it with
> a paper towel, and the towel comes away gray in color, not black. The
> chainrings, cassette, and pulley wheels stay pretty clean, too.

My drivetrains are filthy, but work great. I use White Lightning only, with
maybe a monthly degrease wipe but otherwise no "cleaning" per se. Dribble
on WL, run rag under links (get a wet black stain), go ride. 10-day
intervals.

OTOH, my mountain bike chains used to wear pretty darned quickly, along with
cassettes and chainrings. Road bikes seem to be MUCH less maintenance
intensive IME.

Bill "program of laziness" S.

 

[David L. Johnson]

Bill Sornson wrote:
> Colin Campbell wrote:

>> I also have gotten what some people think of as "impossible" chain and
>> cassette life.

> This sounds exactly like my experience. One road bike has about 12,000
> miles; newer one that gets ridden most nowadays has almost 8,000.


Not my experience at all. For me, chains last about 2000 miles. But then:

1) I do have rain here in Pennsylvania.
2) I weigh 200 lbs, which might have an effect.
3) I don't care much about chains, seeing as how they cost $15, so it
seems not worth the while to go through hours of cleaning ritual every
week or so. But that's just me.



David L. Johnson

"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by
little statesmen and philosophers and divines."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson

 

[datakoll]

nope. ura not gaining ground. The cassette's gonna wear out in X time
and that's it.
we 're using the motor oil equation.
THUS! how much is a rebuild or replacement if you do the take out and
put back? how many miles does the motor last if the oil is changed
when it wears out at say 3000 miles? how much does the oil/filter
cost? so figure the balance between the two, cost motor, cost oil/
filter.
After cleaning the chain every day and reaching 1500 miles per chain,
I moved east to florida's other coast and discovered east coast sand
is less abrasive than freshly dug west coast sand.
here on the east, the chain could go 2000 miles. location and soil
type is a large factor. google search soil types-USDA?
chain rings are the big deal. worn chains over 3/16th's per link ruin
chain rings and some chains rings wear more rapidly than others boy do
they ever!

 

[A Muzi]

datakoll wrote:
> nope. ura not gaining ground. The cassette's gonna wear out in X time
> and that's it.
> we 're using the motor oil equation.
> THUS! how much is a rebuild or replacement if you do the take out and
> put back? how many miles does the motor last if the oil is changed
> when it wears out at say 3000 miles? how much does the oil/filter
> cost? so figure the balance between the two, cost motor, cost oil/
> filter.
> After cleaning the chain every day and reaching 1500 miles per chain,
> I moved east to florida's other coast and discovered east coast sand
> is less abrasive than freshly dug west coast sand.
> here on the east, the chain could go 2000 miles. location and soil
> type is a large factor. google search soil types-USDA?
> chain rings are the big deal. worn chains over 3/16th's per link ruin
> chain rings and some chains rings wear more rapidly than others boy do
> they ever!

Absolutely. As with other rider reports here today, there are indeed
big local/regional differences in equipment life, beyond rider habits.
c.f. tubulars, which are popular in some regions and frustratingly
short-lived in others.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

 

[datakoll]

but the gears will wear much more slowly because the constantly
renewed chain will not move as much as it engages and disengages from
the face of each gear tooth.

right. I remember my first new chain duhduhduh
i didn't know the new chain needed a new cassette!
worser, i was using antiquo 5 and 6 speed cassettes made of japanese
UFO steel
so solving (is that platable?) the problem, i measured all the
cassettes
no differences! not measurable.
I solved the problme but continued measuring and found absence of
grossly measurable cassette wear continued given the chain change
before 3/16th's per link.
granted, a discernable difference exists between center cogs and
outers but not much on a wel maintained drive train

 

[Bill Sornson]

David L. Johnson wrote:
> Bill Sornson wrote:
>> Colin Campbell wrote:
>
>>> I also have gotten what some people think of as "impossible" chain
>>> and cassette life.
>
>> This sounds exactly like my experience. One road bike has about
>> 12,000 miles; newer one that gets ridden most nowadays has almost
>> 8,000.
>
>
> Not my experience at all. For me, chains last about 2000 miles. But
> then:
> 1) I do have rain here in Pennsylvania.
> 2) I weigh 200 lbs, which might have an effect.
> 3) I don't care much about chains, seeing as how they cost $15, so it
> seems not worth the while to go through hours of cleaning ritual every
> week or so. But that's just me.

You clipped my "cleaning ritual" -- dribbling some White Lightning on the
chain every 10 days or so and running a rag over it afterward. My
drivetrains are filthy, but seem to last quite well. (I degrease --
consisting of spraying the rag with something and then running it over the
chain before dribbling WL -- at most once a month and more like bi-monthly.)

Bill "go through hours...a /decade/ maybe" S.

 

[Tom \Johnny Sunset\ Sherman]

datakoll aka gene daniels wrote:
> ...
> After cleaning the chain every day and reaching 1500 miles per chain,
> I moved east to florida's other coast and discovered east coast sand
> is less abrasive than freshly dug west coast sand.
> here on the east, the chain could go 2000 miles. location and soil
> type is a large factor. google search soil types-USDA?...

See <http://websoilsurvey.nrcs.usda.gov/app/>. This has replaced printed
county soil survey books, except for used and NOS. Do it yourself custom
soil reports. No field for bicycle chain wear potential, however.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia

--
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