If Finish Line Lube is so obviously grossly overpriced, why is it sold in every LBS?

[Jay]

Is this just a conspiracy to extract every possible dollar from cyclists?

If so, who are the conspirators? Are LBS prohibited from selling cheaper,
just as good, lubes?

Regular RBT contributors know I am commuting year round 20 miles daily in
Chicago. I recently bought a bottle of
http://www.finishlineusa.com/products/cross-country-lube.htm . It seems to
be an effective winter chain lube. I expect this bottle will easily last
until spring. So we are not talking about big bucks here.

Thanks for any info - J.

 

[Luke]

In article <[email protected]>, Jay
<[email protected]> wrote:

> Is this just a conspiracy to extract every possible dollar from cyclists?
>
> If so, who are the conspirators? Are LBS prohibited from selling cheaper,
> just as good, lubes?
>
> Regular RBT contributors know I am commuting year round 20 miles daily in
> Chicago. I recently bought a bottle of
> http://www.finishlineusa.com/products/cross-country-lube.htm . It seems to
> be an effective winter chain lube. I expect this bottle will easily last
> until spring. So we are not talking about big bucks here.
>
> Thanks for any info - J.
>

I'd like to know why that gastronomical obscenity, The Big Mac, is sold
in every McDonalds. A greater conspiracy by far!

 

[[email protected]]

On Jan 23, 6:21 pm, "Jay" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Is this just a conspiracy to extract every possible dollar from cyclists?
>
> If so, who are the conspirators? Are LBS prohibited from selling cheaper,
> just as good, lubes?
>
> Regular RBT contributors know I am commuting year round 20 miles daily in
> Chicago. I recently bought a bottle ofhttp://www.finishlineusa.com/products/cross-country-lube.htm . It seems to
> be an effective winter chain lube. I expect this bottle will easily last
> until spring. So we are not talking about big bucks here.
>
> Thanks for any info - J.

If you read from the offered link IRT chain care, you might have
noticed a difference between doing it one of the "right" ways, and the
Other Way, which is to have a handy-dandy little bottle of CHANE LOOB
(with drip applicator) that you carefully and sparingly drip on the
chain, wipe off excess on go on, compared to (right way) taking the
chain off, exhaustively cleaning it, including getting all the solvent
out somehow or another, then soaking in a pan of lube and dealing with
the resulting messy de-panning, excess lube removing, and remounting.
And de-canting and re-canting of the "bulk" lube, of course. Including
coffee filter strainer setup for solvents and lube.

One thing I do wrong on purpose although I may change my ways if the
swap to 10 speed occurs this Spring as scheduled. --D-y

 

[A Muzi]

Jay wrote:
> Is this just a conspiracy to extract every possible dollar from cyclists?
> If so, who are the conspirators? Are LBS prohibited from selling cheaper,
> just as good, lubes?
> Regular RBT contributors know I am commuting year round 20 miles daily in
> Chicago. I recently bought a bottle of
> http://www.finishlineusa.com/products/cross-country-lube.htm . It seems to
> be an effective winter chain lube. I expect this bottle will easily last
> until spring. So we are not talking about big bucks here.

People actually ask for it (and similar products ) by brand and 'latest
version'. Do you have any idea how many styles/labels of White Lightning
exist? I don't, but there sure are many.

If you ask for Product X, I'll hand you one from the display rack. If
you ask my advice, I'll gladly expound on lubrication. But I'm not
religious enough to pick a fight over lubricants. Or pseudo lubricants.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

 

[Jay]

On Jan 23, 11:15 pm, A Muzi <[email protected]> wrote:
> Jay wrote:
> > Is this just a conspiracy to extract every possible dollar from cyclists?
> > If so, who are the conspirators? Are LBS prohibited from selling cheaper,
> > just as good, lubes?
> > Regular RBT contributors know I am commuting year round 20 miles daily in
> > Chicago. I recently bought a bottle of
> >http://www.finishlineusa.com/products/cross-country-lube.htm . It seemsto
> > be an effective winter chain lube. I expect this bottle will easily last
> > until spring. So we are not talking about big bucks here.
>
> People actually ask for it (and similar products ) by brand and 'latest
> version'. Do you have any idea how many styles/labels of White Lightning
> exist? I don't, but there sure are many.
>
> If you ask for Product X, I'll hand you one from the display rack. If
> you ask my advice, I'll gladly expound on lubrication. But I'm not
> religious enough to pick a fight over lubricants. Or pseudo lubricants.
> --
> Andrew Muziwww.yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>
OK, I think I am beginning to see this from the LBS perspective. The
quickest and easiest thing to do is hand the customer a little bottle,
and say, 'this is what we use in the shop'. And after all, the LBS is
a for-profit business, not a free information service.

J.

 

[Jay]

On Jan 23, 7:36 pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Jan 23, 6:21 pm, "Jay" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Is this just a conspiracy to extract every possible dollar from cyclists?
>
> > If so, who are the conspirators? Are LBS prohibited from selling cheaper,
> > just as good, lubes?
>
> > Regular RBT contributors know I am commuting year round 20 miles daily in
> > Chicago. I recently bought a bottle ofhttp://www.finishlineusa.com/products/cross-country-lube.htm . It seems to
> > be an effective winter chain lube. I expect this bottle will easily last
> > until spring. So we are not talking about big bucks here.
>
> > Thanks for any info - J.
>
> If you read from the offered link IRT chain care, you might have
> noticed a difference between doing it one of the "right" ways, and the
> Other Way, which is to have a handy-dandy little bottle of CHANE LOOB
> (with drip applicator) that you carefully and sparingly drip on the
> chain, wipe off excess on go on, compared to (right way) taking the
> chain off, exhaustively cleaning it, including getting all the solvent
> out somehow or another, then soaking in a pan of lube and dealing with
> the resulting messy de-panning, excess lube removing, and remounting.
> And de-canting and re-canting of the "bulk" lube, of course. Including
> coffee filter strainer setup for solvents and lube.
>
> One thing I do wrong on purpose although I may change my ways if the
> swap to 10 speed occurs this Spring as scheduled.  --D-y
>
The only reason I lube my chain is to avoid metal-on-metal sounds like
squeaks, chirps, etc. The only time I remove my chain is to replace
it. I think proper chain maintenance makes sense for $200 titanium
chains. But for my $15 chains, a little bottle of chain lube, and
prompt replacement at the wear indication, is a good strategy.

J.

 

[SMS]

[email protected] wrote:

> If you read from the offered link IRT chain care, you might have
> noticed a difference between doing it one of the "right" ways, and the
> Other Way, which is to have a handy-dandy little bottle of CHANE LOOB
> (with drip applicator) that you carefully and sparingly drip on the
> chain, wipe off excess on go on, compared to (right way) taking the
> chain off, exhaustively cleaning it, including getting all the solvent
> out somehow or another, then soaking in a pan of lube and dealing with
> the resulting messy de-panning, excess lube removing, and remounting.
> And de-canting and re-canting of the "bulk" lube, of course. Including
> coffee filter strainer setup for solvents and lube.

Actually, many chain care sites explicitly do not recommend removing the
chain, including Sheldon's (unless you use a Craig Super Link or SRAM
PowerLink). You can clean a chain on the bicycle in much less time, and
get it cleaner than soaking it.

Similarly, there is no need to sit there dripping chain lube on every
link, much of which is wasted. Go to a motorcycle parts store, buy a can
of foaming chain lube for non-O ring chains, and spray it on in about 30
seconds. It gets into the inner reaches of the chain.

Really no need to filter the solvent either, there isn't that much of
it. You can store the dirty solvent until you have enough to bring to
the hazardous waste disposal.

If you use the right procedure and products, cleaning and lubing is a
process that takes less than five minutes per bicycle.

Look at the bright side--at least no one is still hot-waxing their chains!

 

[[email protected]]

On Jan 24, 7:50 am, SMS <[email protected]> wrote:

> Actually, many chain care sites explicitly do not recommend removing the
> chain, including Sheldon's (unless you use a Craig Super Link or SRAM
> PowerLink). You can clean a chain on the bicycle in much less time, and
> get it cleaner than soaking it.

I've never had a problem with chains put together with a pin tool,
ever.

Not to say there's something wrong with "quick links", but it's how I
started. I'm still 9 speed, so things will change (repeating) if the
move to 10 happens.

Cleaner on the bike? Well... "show me".

> Similarly, there is no need to sit there dripping chain lube on every
> link, much of which is wasted. Go to a motorcycle parts store, buy a can
> of foaming chain lube for non-O ring chains, and spray it on in about 30
> seconds. It gets into the inner reaches of the chain.

I tried a couple of MC lubes, they left a sticky residue. I don't "sit
there..." etc. etc., either.

> Really no need to filter the solvent either, there isn't that much of
> it. You can store the dirty solvent until you have enough to bring to
> the hazardous waste disposal.

Well, I don't filter because I don't use it in the first place <g>.
But, if I went to the (for example) gallon-milk-jug chain cleaning
method (agitate, changing "washes" of solvent until clear), I'd be
filtering in consideration of cost and environmental impact.

> If you use the right procedure and products, cleaning and lubing is a
> process that takes less than five minutes per bicycle.

Wipe off, hold the stinger over the chain, spin the crank and drip
while moving, wipe off again. Should be under five minutes, agreed
<g>.

That's the religion I believe in. I was going to go check my odometer
to report how many thousands of miles I've gotten out of the last 9sp
chain but the s on the end of thousand there will suffice.

Back when I could get Sedisport chains for four or five bucks, I just
changed them when they got dirty. Thousand, twelve hundred miles or
so. Time is money.

> Look at the bright side--at least no one is still hot-waxing their chains!

I think you're wrong there. Many Believers follow that path to this
day.


http://www.slowtwitch.com/mainheadings/techctr/maintenance/chain.html

Yep, "ferver", that's the right word all right. --D-y

 

[SMS]

[email protected] wrote:

> I think you're wrong there. Many Believers follow that path to this
> day.
>
> http://www.slowtwitch.com/mainheadings/techctr/maintenance/chain.html
>
> Yep, "ferver", that's the right word all right. --D-y

That's a pretty old post. Someone would have to be really stupid to
still be hot waxing.

 

[Werehatrack]

On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 18:21:20 -0600, "Jay" <[email protected]> may have
said:

>Is this just a conspiracy to extract every possible dollar from cyclists?

Only the generalized conspiracy that is modern capitalism in action.

>If so, who are the conspirators?

Everyone, really.

>Are LBS prohibited from selling cheaper,
>just as good, lubes?

Indirectly, yes. Profit is generally acknowledged as the only valid
basis for being in business. Shelf space costs the same amount
regardless of whether the revenue generated from it is miniscule or
considerable; ergo the usual goal is to generate the most profit both
per sale and per square foot of shelf space. If the markup is the
same across a range of products of varying price but identical
function, then the most profitable one to sell (assuming that you
aren't going to lose sales due to exceeding the purchasing public's
price tolerance point) is the most expensive one.

>Regular RBT contributors know I am commuting year round 20 miles daily in
>Chicago. I recently bought a bottle of
>http://www.finishlineusa.com/products/cross-country-lube.htm . It seems to
>be an effective winter chain lube. I expect this bottle will easily last
>until spring. So we are not talking about big bucks here.

And there you have it; the price is close to the limit of what you're
willing to pay, and therefore they probably aren't losing any sales.



--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

 

[Ozark Bicycle]

On Jan 24, 10:00 am, steven "the self-appointed expert" scharf
<[email protected]> wrote:

<snipped>

>Someone would have to be really stupid to
> still be hot waxing.

Well, "someone"[1] would have to be really stupid to still be whining
about compact frame geometry, aluminum frames, threadless headsets,
etc., too, doncha think?

[1] Wait! That "someone" is Steven M. Scharf!

 

[[email protected]]

On Jan 24, 11:46 am, Ozark Bicycle
<[email protected]> wrote:
> On Jan 24, 10:00 am, steven "the self-appointed expert" scharf
The topic that will forever be renewed:
I figured that if a major chain saw manufacturer put its name on chain
lubricant, it must be as good as any. So, I bought aGALLON of Poulan
for less than U$8. That's 16 8oz bottles.

Seems too thick? Dilute with a little diesel oil, engineered to make
diesel pumps self-lubricating. It costs $1US/qt..

Want to extend this thread to Green? Consider that the quantity of
chain saw lubricant used in logging is so great as to have
environmental impact from the petrochemicals. So, that industry has
gone, or been forced to go to soybean based lubricants. And, so my
diesel oil should be biodiesel. The Poulan chain oil in the green
plastic bottles sold in the US, Whoever knows should post here.

>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> <snipped>
>
> >Someone would have to be really stupid to
> > still be hot waxing.
>
> Well, "someone"[1] would have to be really stupid to still be whining
> about compact frame geometry, aluminum frames, threadless headsets,
> etc., too, doncha think?
>
> [1] Wait! That "someone" is Steven M. Scharf!

 

[Ozark Bicycle]

On Jan 24, 11:59 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On Jan 24, 11:46 am, Ozark Bicycle<[email protected]>wrote:
> > On Jan 24, 10:00 am, steven "the self-appointed expert" scharf
>
> The topic that will forever be renewed:
> I figured that if a major chain saw manufacturer put its name on chain
> lubricant, it must be as good as any. So, I bought aGALLON of Poulan
> for less than U$8. That's 16 8oz bottles.
>
> Seems too thick? Dilute with a little diesel oil, engineered to make
> diesel pumps self-lubricating. It costs $1US/qt..

Or, mix one part chain oil with one part odorless mineral spirits. Buy
a "drip bottle" at a crafts/hobby dept, etc., for ~$0.50. Pour mixture
into bottle, apply to chain rollers, wipe, let set, wipe again. You
now have a well lubed chain and a lifetime supply of chain lube for
less than the cost of 2-3 4oz bottles of the latest/greatest/gee-whiz/
magic/ripoff chain lube.

 

[A Muzi]

>> Jay wrote:
>>> Is this just a conspiracy to extract every possible dollar from cyclists?
>>> If so, who are the conspirators? Are LBS prohibited from selling cheaper,
>>> just as good, lubes?
>>> Regular RBT contributors know I am commuting year round 20 miles daily in
>>> Chicago. I recently bought a bottle of
>>> http://www.finishlineusa.com/products/cross-country-lube.htm . It seems to
>>> be an effective winter chain lube. I expect this bottle will easily last
>>> until spring. So we are not talking about big bucks here.
>> People actually ask for it (and similar products ) by brand and 'latest
>> version'. Do you have any idea how many styles/labels of White Lightning
>> exist? I don't, but there sure are many.

> A Muzi <[email protected]> wrote:
>> If you ask for Product X, I'll hand you one from the display rack. If
>> you ask my advice, I'll gladly expound on lubrication. But I'm not
>> religious enough to pick a fight over lubricants. Or pseudo lubricants.

Jay wrote:
> OK, I think I am beginning to see this from the LBS perspective. The
> quickest and easiest thing to do is hand the customer a little bottle,
> and say, 'this is what we use in the shop'. And after all, the LBS is
> a for-profit business, not a free information service.

You may have mistaken my emphasis.
If you ask for a specific product I won't say you're wrong.
If you ask my opinion, we can discuss lubricants.
Yes, we do carry non-designer-package oils (Paneff!)
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

 

[Chalo]

A Muzi wrote:
>
> If you ask for Product X, I'll hand you one from the display rack. If
> you ask my advice, I'll gladly expound on lubrication. But I'm not
> religious enough to pick a fight over lubricants. Or pseudo lubricants.

Do you keep WD-40 on the shelf for those folks who ask for it by
name?

Chalo

 

[A Muzi]

> A Muzi wrote:
>> If you ask for Product X, I'll hand you one from the display rack. If
>> you ask my advice, I'll gladly expound on lubrication. But I'm not
>> religious enough to pick a fight over lubricants. Or pseudo lubricants.

Chalo wrote:
> Do you keep WD-40 on the shelf for those folks who ask for it by
> name?

Nope.
We suggest the hardware store 2 blocks over. And I assure you there are
guys who insist on WD40, no substitute, and cannot be dissuaded.

I do carry TriFlow (formerly TriFlon) which is just as awful. Every
bottle goes out under duress, "Next to that, at the same price, you can
get twice as large a bottle of real chain oil with applicator". Some
listen, some don't.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

 

[Jay]

> Jay wrote:
>> OK, I think I am beginning to see this from the LBS perspective. The
>> quickest and easiest thing to do is hand the customer a little bottle,
>> and say, 'this is what we use in the shop'. And after all, the LBS is
>> a for-profit business, not a free information service.
>
> You may have mistaken my emphasis.
> If you ask for a specific product I won't say you're wrong.
> If you ask my opinion, we can discuss lubricants.
> Yes, we do carry non-designer-package oils (Paneff!)
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> www.yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>
I did not mean to imply that you (personally) would give bad advice, just to
make a sale. My earlier reply was carelessly phrased.

IMO, the burden is *always* on the customer, to make a smart buying
decision. Everything else is just sales talk.

J.

 

[A Muzi]

>> Jay wrote:
>>> OK, I think I am beginning to see this from the LBS perspective. The
>>> quickest and easiest thing to do is hand the customer a little bottle,
>>> and say, 'this is what we use in the shop'. And after all, the LBS is
>>> a for-profit business, not a free information service.

>am:
>> You may have mistaken my emphasis.
>> If you ask for a specific product I won't say you're wrong.
>> If you ask my opinion, we can discuss lubricants.
>> Yes, we do carry non-designer-package oils (Panef!)

Jay wrote:
> I did not mean to imply that you (personally) would give bad advice, just to
> make a sale. My earlier reply was carelessly phrased.
> IMO, the burden is *always* on the customer, to make a smart buying
> decision. Everything else is just sales talk.

I wasn't able to get a link to Panef:
http://www.panef.com/

but my search did turn up an interesting page of pane foccacia !:
http://www.comune.olmedo.ss.it/pane.html

Panef is an oil-packaging house in Milwaukee, just no-nonsense oil, no
frills, no hype:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/PANEFOIL.JPG
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

 

[SMS]

A Muzi wrote:
>>> Jay wrote:
>>>> Is this just a conspiracy to extract every possible dollar from
>>>> cyclists?
>>>> If so, who are the conspirators? Are LBS prohibited from selling
>>>> cheaper,
>>>> just as good, lubes?
>>>> Regular RBT contributors know I am commuting year round 20 miles
>>>> daily in
>>>> Chicago. I recently bought a bottle of
>>>> http://www.finishlineusa.com/products/cross-country-lube.htm . It
>>>> seems to
>>>> be an effective winter chain lube. I expect this bottle will easily
>>>> last
>>>> until spring. So we are not talking about big bucks here.
>>> People actually ask for it (and similar products ) by brand and 'latest
>>> version'. Do you have any idea how many styles/labels of White Lightning
>>> exist? I don't, but there sure are many.
>
>> A Muzi <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> If you ask for Product X, I'll hand you one from the display rack. If
>>> you ask my advice, I'll gladly expound on lubrication. But I'm not
>>> religious enough to pick a fight over lubricants. Or pseudo lubricants.
>
> Jay wrote:
>> OK, I think I am beginning to see this from the LBS perspective. The
>> quickest and easiest thing to do is hand the customer a little bottle,
>> and say, 'this is what we use in the shop'. And after all, the LBS is
>> a for-profit business, not a free information service.
>
> You may have mistaken my emphasis.
> If you ask for a specific product I won't say you're wrong.
> If you ask my opinion, we can discuss lubricants.
> Yes, we do carry non-designer-package oils (Paneff!)

Many stores (not bicycle shops) that push higher margin, lower quality,
products have resulted in a lot of very wary consumers. You have the
right approach. You can't spend much time discussing the merits of a
product that's netting you $5 in profit.

Maybe print up some one page sheets that explain the differences in
chain lubes that you sell, kind of like what REI does for many different
product categories, and that also explains that WD-40 is not a lubricant!

 

[Tom Sherman]

Luke aka Lucas Iragusa wrote:
> ...
> I'd like to know why that gastronomical obscenity, The Big Mac, is sold
> in every McDonalds. A greater conspiracy by far!
>
There is enough grease in a Big Mac to lubricate a bicycle chain.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people."
- A. Derleth