I'm ****** at OLN for not carrying the Vuelta ...



In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...

>I had a chance to chat with Frankie Andreau this May. This subject came
>up. He called the Tour de France "a gold mine" for OLN, but for the Giro
>and Vuelta, no one watches but us cycling geeks.
>It's just ratings and the money they bring.
>If you want to see more bike racing on TV in America, create more fans
>to watch it.


More fans can't watch what's not on TV. OLN owes cycling fans. Cycling fans
gave them their highest ratings ever. They should give back. No one is asking
for the same coverage as TDF, about 10 repeats a day. Same day coverage of
about an hour or so in the evening should not cost them too much.
---------------
Alex
 
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>
>>It's just ratings and the money they bring.
>>If you want to see more bike racing on TV in America, create more fans
>>to watch it.


There is this thing called marketing, which I've heard is supposed to
create a market where one doesn't exist...

>
>More fans can't watch what's not on TV. OLN owes cycling fans.
>


Actually, my guess is that it wasn't cycling fans, it was Lance fans
peeking for the first time at cycling.

Besides, just like there's no crying in baseball, there's no owing in TV.

My take was that OLN, and bicycle manufacturers and dealers, are really
missing an opportunity to move past Lance to show what a great sport road
racing is without him. The latter could, for example, have put together
an industry-wide coalition (a la the beef and milk industries) and paid
OLN part of the cost to put the Giro and the Vuelta (among others) on TV
to see if they could (1) generate enough response to make it more viable,
and (2) sell more bikes and accessories. The Lance wave of cyclists who
I saw on the roads around my house after the TdF lasted about two weeks;
they were almost all on brand new bikes.

cheers,
john
 
John Red-Horse wrote:
>
> My take was that OLN, and bicycle manufacturers and dealers, are really
> missing an opportunity to move past Lance to show what a great sport road
> racing is without him. The latter could, for example, have put together
> an industry-wide coalition (a la the beef and milk industries) and paid
> OLN part of the cost to put the Giro and the Vuelta (among others) on TV
> to see if they could (1) generate enough response to make it more viable,
> and (2) sell more bikes and accessories. The Lance wave of cyclists who
> I saw on the roads around my house after the TdF lasted about two weeks;
> they were almost all on brand new bikes.
>
> cheers,
> john


If you read Bicycle Retailer, you can see that the industry is putting
its advocacy money behind bike lanes.

Wayne
 
John Red-Horse wrote:

> My take was that OLN, and bicycle manufacturers and dealers, are really
> missing an opportunity to move past Lance to show what a great sport road
> racing is without him. The latter could, for example, have put together
> an industry-wide coalition (a la the beef and milk industries) and paid
> OLN part of the cost to put the Giro and the Vuelta (among others) on TV
> to see if they could (1) generate enough response to make it more viable,
> and (2) sell more bikes and accessories. The Lance wave of cyclists who
> I saw on the roads around my house after the TdF lasted about two weeks;
> they were almost all on brand new bikes.


I suspect that the advertising budget of the whole industry isn't
large enough to support paying for a significant amount of time on
even a third-tier cable channel like OLN. It is very small compared
to beef, milk, and autos (Damn, that sounds like the three pillars
of American civilization: add gasoline and you have all four).
Very few bike manufacturers have even been capable of buying a
significant amount of ad time during OLN cycling coverage.
Mike Jacoubowsky probably knows some of the numbers.

The industry does have trade groups and coalitions; these do studies
which find things like, one of the primary reasons people say they
don't ride bikes more is fear of traffic, moreso than televised
racing or lack thereof. So the industry spends money on advocacy for
bike routes or whatever (flames about whether they should be spending
it on bike lanes or wide curb lanes probably belong on
rec.bicycles.misc.
 
[email protected] wrote:

> I suspect that the advertising budget of the whole industry isn't
> large enough to support paying for a significant amount of time on
> even a third-tier cable channel like OLN. It is very small compared
> to beef, milk, and autos (Damn, that sounds like the three pillars
> of American civilization: add gasoline and you have all four).
> Very few bike manufacturers have even been capable of buying a
> significant amount of ad time during OLN cycling coverage.
> Mike Jacoubowsky probably knows some of the numbers.
>
> The industry does have trade groups and coalitions; these do studies
> which find things like, one of the primary reasons people say they
> don't ride bikes more is fear of traffic, moreso than televised
> racing or lack thereof. So the industry spends money on advocacy for
> bike routes or whatever (flames about whether they should be spending
> it on bike lanes or wide curb lanes probably belong on
> rec.bicycles.misc.
>


Strictly speaking, those two road widening features make it easier for
motorists to pass on busier roads, which makes some bicyclists more
"comfortable," relieving those bicyclists of their guilt of causing
motorists to have to slow or move over. So the advocacy effort is really
for motorist convenience, as there is no operational benefit to
bicyclists of road space beyond the normal lane width.

Wayne
 
Wayne Pein wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
> > (flames about whether they should be spending
> > it on bike lanes or wide curb lanes probably belong on
> > rec.bicycles.misc.

>
> Strictly speaking, those two road widening features make it easier for
> motorists to pass on busier roads, which makes some bicyclists more
> "comfortable," relieving those bicyclists of their guilt of causing
> motorists to have to slow or move over. So the advocacy effort is really
> for motorist convenience, as there is no operational benefit to
> bicyclists of road space beyond the normal lane width.


It was a joke about an interminable crossposted flame war with
the subject something like "Bike lanes or wide curb lanes?" from
a year or two ago.

I understand your position but don't think it is very realistic
for certain types of roads, which are pretty common in the DC area,
for example. (Compare riding to downtown on 14th St vs 16th St.)
But the flamewar belongs in some other group, so I won't contribute
more.
 
Raptor wrote:
> alan_atwood wrote:
>
>> Yeah, Alex; I don't know what grass OLN is smoking. But if that's what
>> they want to do; let 'em fail at it. I think they will eventually find
>> out that going away from your roots can do more harm than good.
>>
>> Alan

>
>
> I had a chance to chat with Frankie Andreau this May. This subject came


Did you ask him about steroid preparation programmes?
 
John Red-Horse wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>
>>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>>
>>
>>>It's just ratings and the money they bring.
>>>If you want to see more bike racing on TV in America, create more fans
>>>to watch it.

>
>
> There is this thing called marketing, which I've heard is supposed to
> create a market where one doesn't exist...


Not at all. Marketing is the art of generating sales of things that
nobody wants.
 
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>
>Not at all. Marketing is the art of generating sales of things that
>nobody wants.


Fair enough, but that's the cynical take, imo. I would say that in this
case the key difference might be "...that nobody knows that they
want...".

I think that the Lance-effect opened the door, however briefly, of road
racing to Americans.

Clearly, some people were intrigued enough at the time to do more than
just watch the TdF on TV; they bought brand new bikes, et al, and rode
them---for a time. This is based on the observations of one who lives on
a popular road-riding route outside of Albuquerque, NM. I couldn't
believe the increased number of riders out during and just after the
Tour.

The door is now closed, and OLN was right there slamming it shut.

What I'd like to see in the US is an equivalent of Eurosport (with
Eurosport broadcast talent). We already have Setanta, on DirecTV, which
is a Rupert Murdoch product where we can see some non-traditional US
(world) sport; but it's mostly British-derivative stuff (rugby, soccer,
hurling, etc); its future viability may say something about the market
for so-called fringe sport on TV.

cheers,
john
 
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (John Red-Horse) wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
> >
> >Not at all. Marketing is the art of generating sales of things that
> >nobody wants.

>
> Fair enough, but that's the cynical take, imo. I would say that in this
> case the key difference might be "...that nobody knows that they
> want...".
>
> I think that the Lance-effect opened the door, however briefly, of road
> racing to Americans.
>
> Clearly, some people were intrigued enough at the time to do more than
> just watch the TdF on TV; they bought brand new bikes, et al, and rode
> them---for a time. This is based on the observations of one who lives on
> a popular road-riding route outside of Albuquerque, NM. I couldn't
> believe the increased number of riders out during and just after the
> Tour.
>
> The door is now closed, and OLN was right there slamming it shut.
>
> What I'd like to see in the US is an equivalent of Eurosport (with
> Eurosport broadcast talent). We already have Setanta, on DirecTV, which
> is a Rupert Murdoch product where we can see some non-traditional US
> (world) sport; but it's mostly British-derivative stuff (rugby, soccer,
> hurling, etc); its future viability may say something about the market
> for so-called fringe sport on TV.


With regular coverage of various events including the
Spring classics they could generate and audience, so long
as they do not interfere with bull riding and bassmasters.

--
Michael Press
 
Michael Press said:
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (John Red-Horse) wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
> >
> >Not at all. Marketing is the art of generating sales of things that
> >nobody wants.

>
> Fair enough, but that's the cynical take, imo. I would say that in this
> case the key difference might be "...that nobody knows that they
> want...".
>
> I think that the Lance-effect opened the door, however briefly, of road
> racing to Americans.
>
> Clearly, some people were intrigued enough at the time to do more than
> just watch the TdF on TV; they bought brand new bikes, et al, and rode
> them---for a time. This is based on the observations of one who lives on
> a popular road-riding route outside of Albuquerque, NM. I couldn't
> believe the increased number of riders out during and just after the
> Tour.
>
> The door is now closed, and OLN was right there slamming it shut.
>
> What I'd like to see in the US is an equivalent of Eurosport (with
> Eurosport broadcast talent). We already have Setanta, on DirecTV, which
> is a Rupert Murdoch product where we can see some non-traditional US
> (world) sport; but it's mostly British-derivative stuff (rugby, soccer,
> hurling, etc); its future viability may say something about the market
> for so-called fringe sport on TV.


With regular coverage of various events including the
Spring classics they could generate and audience, so long
as they do not interfere with bull riding and bassmasters.

--
Michael Press
I find it hard to believe that Ruger Country and Bow Hunting draw better ratings than any cycling event but that's my highly biased, pro-cycling opinion.

I understand that it would be expensive to cover the classics like they do the TDF but what would prevent them from buying Eurosport packages on the Vuelta and Giro and selling that to sponsers ?

LW
 
lwedge wrote:
> I understand that it would be expensive to cover the classics like they
> do the TDF but what would prevent them from buying Eurosport packages on
> the Vuelta and Giro and selling that to sponsers ?


Every (?) bicycle race has only one single tv feed, provided by a local
team of motorbikes, helicopter (if live) and some fixed cameras. Even
switching between cameras is most often (always?) done centrally and not
left to the different subscribers. Eurosport is just one subscriber that
buys into the feed, puts a commentator in a booth on the finish line or
sometimes in Paris headquarters, and relays via their own tv channel.

--
E. Dronkert
 
Yes....Cycling.tv is the Channel for you cyclists. Get out there, get a
big fat internet connection, and you'll get the Vuelta next year. The
World Championshoips next week and much, much, much more...
 
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] wrote:
>
>With regular coverage of various events including the
>Spring classics they could generate and audience,


The only coverage that I'd ever seen touching on the Spring classics
was on that series that followed the Disco Team around in the months
leading up to the TdF; I thought they were kick-ass. I'd definitely
watch them if they were broadcast, with the proviso, of course, that
Euro-bred broadcasters were used.

>so long
>as they do not interfere with bull riding and bassmasters.
>


Heh. Don't forget hot dog eating contests and spelling bees...

cheers,
john
 
[email protected] writes:
> Yes....Cycling.tv is the Channel for you cyclists. Get out there, get a
> big fat internet connection, and you'll get the Vuelta next year. The
> World Championshoips next week and much, much, much more...


How about some linux support? I'd use cycling.tv if I could.

Morgan
--
Morgan Fletcher, [email protected] Oakland, CA, USA
 
On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 19:13:42 +0000, Morgan Fletcher wrote:

> [email protected] writes:
>> Yes....Cycling.tv is the Channel for you cyclists. Get out there, get a
>> big fat internet connection, and you'll get the Vuelta next year. The
>> World Championshoips next week and much, much, much more...

>
> How about some linux support? I'd use cycling.tv if I could.
>
> Morgan


Kubuntu 5.04... I can see it. (granted, it plays in a kaffine window but
I can watch)

Mike
 
John Red-Horse wrote:
>
> The only coverage that I'd ever seen touching on the Spring classics
> was on that series that followed the Disco Team around in the months
> leading up to the TdF; I thought they were kick-ass. I'd definitely
> watch them if they were broadcast, with the proviso, of course, that
> Euro-bred broadcasters were used.


Just 2-3 years ago, OLN had live or same-day coverage of
Paris-Roubaix and one-hour recaps of several important
spring classics (Flanders, LBL, Fleche, Amstel Gold). It
was way more kick-ass than Disco Team/Lance promos. (I have
to admit that "Road to the Tour" Nike semi-documentary from
several years ago was very cool.)

Then that went away, then the Vuelta went away, then the Giro
went away. There's presumably basic economic reasons for it
(and I don't have cable any more anyway) but I know why people
are *****ing.
 
"[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Just 2-3 years ago, OLN had live or same-day coverage of
> Paris-Roubaix and one-hour recaps of several important
> spring classics (Flanders, LBL, Fleche, Amstel Gold). It
> was way more kick-ass than Disco Team/Lance promos. (I have
> to admit that "Road to the Tour" Nike semi-documentary from
> several years ago was very cool.)
>
> Then that went away, then the Vuelta went away, then the Giro
> went away. There's presumably basic economic reasons for it
> (and I don't have cable any more anyway) but I know why people
> are *****ing.



The reason they're *****ing is that they got spoiled by the coverage you
mentioned that went away while forgetting that before that the only
coverage in the US was a 1/2 hour nightly recap of Le Tour on ESPN with
brilliant commentary by the likes of Brent Musberger and other douchebags
and then similarly dreadful coverage on Sunday by CBS. So even though now
we only get the one hour weekly cycling show on OLN from March-June
followed by all Tour all the time, that is still better than the bad old
days.

NS