Images of Victorian cyclists

[dkahn400]

Chris Malcolm wrote:
> Nick Kew <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Phil Cook wrote:
>
> >> The originals are out of copyright but the digital images produced by
> >> scanning are copyright of the person doing the scanning.
>
> > Are you sure of that? Sounds deeply unlikely to me.
>
> > Of course, if it's not the actual photographs, but someone's original
> > artwork that just happens to incorporate the (non-copright) photos,
> > then copyright would seem reasonable.
>
> Art Galleries (and their lawyers) seem quite confident that the
> photographs they sell of their paintings are copyright. Even if all
> the photographer did was point and press, the camera had to be
> selected, and it did have lots of adjustments on it which in this case
> the expert photographer decided did not need to be adjusted, m'lud

Phil seems to know what he's talking about and I've no doubt he's
right. Extending this a bit, supposing I were to acquire some sheet
music that's out of copyright and scan it and publish it. Would I
acquire copyright in any way over the music itself, over the newly
published image of the music, or neither. Would anyone photocopying
"my" music without my permission be breaching my copyright? Suppose I
were to produce my own image of the music through a software package
such as Sibelius. It's now the same notes but a completely new image.
Would this be any different?

Hmm... I may be about to go into the music publishing business.

--
Dave...

 

[Phil Cook]

dkahn400 wrote:

>> > Phil Cook wrote:
>>
>> >> The originals are out of copyright but the digital images produced by
>> >> scanning are copyright of the person doing the scanning.

>Phil seems to know what he's talking about and I've no doubt he's
>right.

Ha ha! I think I'm right but I could be wrong. I reckon a scan is
copyrightable because you make some decisions about dpi, colour
balance, cropping, etc. The fact you let the software do this on auto
is a decision in itself.

>Extending this a bit, supposing I were to acquire some sheet
>music that's out of copyright and scan it and publish it. Would I
>acquire copyright in any way over the music itself, over the newly
>published image of the music, or neither. Would anyone photocopying
>"my" music without my permission be breaching my copyright? Suppose I
>were to produce my own image of the music through a software package
>such as Sibelius. It's now the same notes but a completely new image.
>Would this be any different?
>
>Hmm... I may be about to go into the music publishing business.

There's nothing to stop somebody from finding the same bit of music or
image and copying it themselves. You don't acquire copyright in the
music or image itself just in your image of the music or image. So in
the music case, if somebody were to copy the notation from your
scanned copy and print it themselves it would not be breach of
copyright.
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

 

[Clive George]

"dkahn400" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> Phil seems to know what he's talking about and I've no doubt he's
> right. Extending this a bit, supposing I were to acquire some sheet
> music that's out of copyright and scan it and publish it. Would I
> acquire copyright in any way over the music itself, over the newly
> published image of the music, or neither. Would anyone photocopying
> "my" music without my permission be breaching my copyright? Suppose I
> were to produce my own image of the music through a software package
> such as Sibelius. It's now the same notes but a completely new image.
> Would this be any different?

See recent case with Hyperion. Although this was a bit more than
scanning/publishing.

cheers,
clive

 

[Phil Cook]

Clive George wrote:

>"dkahn400" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>
>> Phil seems to know what he's talking about and I've no doubt he's
>> right. Extending this a bit, supposing I were to acquire some sheet
>> music that's out of copyright and scan it and publish it. Would I
>> acquire copyright in any way over the music itself, over the newly
>> published image of the music, or neither. Would anyone photocopying
>> "my" music without my permission be breaching my copyright? Suppose I
>> were to produce my own image of the music through a software package
>> such as Sibelius. It's now the same notes but a completely new image.
>> Would this be any different?
>
>See recent case with Hyperion. Although this was a bit more than
>scanning/publishing.

Some details here:
http://www.lafolia.com/archive/psa/psa200504sawkinsvshyperion.html

--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

 

[iakobski]

>> produce my own image of the music

Well, unless you've been at the magic mushrooms, music is normally
something you listen to rather than an "image".

Copyright is on the actual notes and performance directions. If you
simply reproduced the same notes (in the same order) it would still be
a work in the public domain. If you changed the notes/directions
significantly, you would have produced a derivative work and can claim
copyright in it.

 

[iakobski]

Just realised what I wrote was not very clear.

You WOULD be able to stop people photocopying your version of the
music, even if you just put the notes in the same order. What you
wouldn't be able to stop them doing is copying the notes again, or
playing it, unless you had changed it enough to be a derivative work.

 

[dkahn400]

iakobski wrote:
> >> produce my own image of the music
>
> Well, unless you've been at the magic mushrooms, music is normally
> something you listen to rather than an "image".

I once saw Victor Borge walk to the front of the stage and ask someone
in the front row, "Do you like music?" When the man nodded that he did
Borge walked back to the piano, opened the stool and took out a sheet
of music. He then handed it to the man in the front row saying, "Here's
some."

--
Dave...

 

[Nick Kew]

dkahn400 wrote:
> iakobski wrote:
>
>>>> produce my own image of the music
>>
>>Well, unless you've been at the magic mushrooms, music is normally
>>something you listen to rather than an "image".
>
>
> I once saw Victor Borge walk to the front of the stage and ask someone
> in the front row, "Do you like music?" When the man nodded that he did
> Borge walked back to the piano, opened the stool and took out a sheet
> of music. He then handed it to the man in the front row saying, "Here's
> some."
>
If you're a musician, that works. You can read and interpret it in
your head. Borge knew that, and was making a joke on two levels,
but presumably couldn't know if his 'victim' was in on the joke.

--
Nick Kew