Immune System



edd

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Originally posted by Aztec
Interesting! You lost your back arch/curvature from situps? Never heard that one before.

I differ w/ the Doc above on squats, especially with super light weights like you suggest. That's not enough to cause compression. And so long as you keep the natural back arch (ooops, which you don't have!)...

My back aches from standing more for than a few minutes or walking for more than an hour. I have too much curvature, and have to focus on contracting my abs/standing straight. I do glute/ham raises, reverse hyperextensions and sometimes plain old hyperextension as strengtheners. I should do more abs.

Being seated definitely helps, and the bike doesn't bother it -- even the aero position, which I love. And Doc, thinking back to your aero position note earlier, you should be able to do it, too, because the true aero position isn't really any more bend at the waist.

I have natural arch to look at. The loss of natural lordosis is clinical term for the miss-positioned vertebrae.

And stupid sit ups not just normal sit ups.
........I'd pin my toes under a thing, put a big disc on my chest or evern worse, hang upside down in gravity boots and touch my toes.
dumb, really dumb !
 

edd

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Originally posted by Aztec
I dunno, that sounds like good tough ab training to me! Not stupid!!

No, they are stupid.

Pinning your toes to do crunches works mainly your hip flexor muscles, these are in your legs and attach to you spine. It's pkay to strengthen these as long as you strengthen everything else in your core.
 

rkohler

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Didn't you watch any of the Rocky movies? He hung upside down and did crunches till he couldn't do anymore! If Rocky does it, then it's gotta be good! ;)

Originally posted by edd
No, they are stupid.

Pinning your toes to do crunches works mainly your hip flexor muscles, these are in your legs and attach to you spine. It's pkay to strengthen these as long as you strengthen everything else in your core.
 

edd

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Originally posted by rkohler
Didn't you watch any of the Rocky movies? He hung upside down and did crunches till he couldn't do anymore! If Rocky does it, then it's gotta be good! ;)

Richard Gear did them first....... in American Gigolo........ still stupid
 

rkohler

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Originally posted by edd
Richard Gear did them first....... in American Gigolo........ still stupid

Richard Gear isn't as cool as Rocky. Rocky would kick his a$$ anyday ;)

Seriously though, those types of crunches are perfectly fine to get a good ab workout. They're similar to the crunches that you would do on the decline bench where your shin is resting against the pad keeping you from sliding off. There are hundreds of ways that people can come up with to work the abdominal muscles and if they feel it and get a good burn going, then hey, go for it. They may look stupid, but so does one-legged cycling, and I'd never say anything about that exercise actually being stupid. Whatever floats your boat, ya know? If it works for you, great. Go for it.
 

biker-linz

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Just further to what ric said, recent studies have shown that additional Vitamin C supplementation has little effect in reducing incidence of URI in athletes but using carb solutions during and after training does. If anyone wants me to find the reference I will.

Lindsay.
 

edd

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Originally posted by rkohler
Richard Gear isn't as cool as Rocky. Rocky would kick his a$$ anyday ;)

Seriously though, those types of crunches are perfectly fine to get a good ab workout. They're similar to the crunches that you would do on the decline bench where your shin is resting against the pad keeping you from sliding off. There are hundreds of ways that people can come up with to work the abdominal muscles and if they feel it and get a good burn going, then hey, go for it. They may look stupid, but so does one-legged cycling, and I'd never say anything about that exercise actually being stupid. Whatever floats your boat, ya know? If it works for you, great. Go for it.

No, I'm sorry, you don't get it. It's not about what you do or how you do it, it's about building strength imbalances that lead to problems. This off the point of this thread. If you start a thread on Ab work I'll elaborate.
 

edd

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Originally posted by biker-linz
Just further to what ric said, recent studies have shown that additional Vitamin C supplementation has little effect in reducing incidence of URI in athletes but using carb solutions during and after training does. If anyone wants me to find the reference I will.

Lindsay.

Please, I'd be interested in reading it.
 

rkohler

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Originally posted by edd
No, I'm sorry, you don't get it. It's not about what you do or how you do it, it's about building strength imbalances that lead to problems. This off the point of this thread. If you start a thread on Ab work I'll elaborate.

Forget it man. I'm done. I'm obviously missing some extraordinary point here and my background has gotten me nowhere. Maybe if I backed up every single word I said with research, like some people do in here, then people would listen as if it was the only correct hypothesis out there. I don't understand how you can start talking about a muscle imbalance from ONE ab workout, but whatever.
 

edd

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Originally posted by rkohler
Forget it man. I'm done. I'm obviously missing some extraordinary point here and my background has gotten me nowhere. Maybe if I backed up every single word I said with research, like some people do in here, then people would listen as if it was the only correct hypothesis out there. I don't understand how you can start talking about a muscle imbalance from ONE ab workout, but whatever.

I was commenting on what I had done. And that what I had done was stupid.
I'll scan the xrays and post them if I can find them.
 

Roadie_scum

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Originally posted by ricstern
To add to this, the risk of becoming ill, with e.g., an upper respiratory tract infection is higher in people who train with greater intensity/volume than people who train easier. There's a 'J' shaped model exists between exercise and illness (Nieman, 1994), such that you'd expect elite athletes to be more ill than recreational ones. see http://cyclecoach.com/articles/?article=Illness&ext=.htm for some more details

Ric

Yep, and the risk eventuates. This study shows elite athletes do get sick more often than people with healthy but normail activity levels. The suggestions in this forum that this is abnormal or can be stopped in seems wrong to me, at least for elite athletes. Certainly, risk management is important though; carbohydrate intake is important, avoiding glycogen depletion, having all macro and micro nutrients in sufficient quantity, avoiding contact with school aged children, washing hand, avoiding hand/face contact... the list goes on.

If you are frequently sick, and participate in under 10 hours of intelligently structured exercise, I would be concerned. If you are frequently sick and train more than 12 or 15 hours a week, you are normal. Everything that can be done to manage the risk should be done if you want optimal athletic performance, but I think it's untrue that elite athletes have amazing immune systems - they have amazing VO2max's and LT's, and when they train hard their immune system suffers just like yours or mine. If you cut back your training to the point where your risk of illness was in line with the general population, you would be unlikely to be competitive at a high level.

That said, if you do get sick, stop training and let yourself recover.

By the way Ric, I happen to be sick at the moment (!) and I'd be interested if you or other mods could direct me to some good literature on managing training during periods of illness, and immediately after. I've tried looking myseld, and it doesn't seem easy to find stuff on this topic. Also, did someone mention myocardia?

Cheers,

The Roadie.
 

edd

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Getting sick is not always caused by a depleted immune system. If you pick up a virus that is not identifiable to your immune system chances are you will become ill no matter who you are. However a lot of athletes will continue training when they are a little "off colour" because they are not that ill yet and that's their regime. I said yet because it is this behavior that exacerbates viral infection. The general public takes a day off at the first sign of a sniffle, any excuse for a sickie, while athletes tend to tell themselves it's not a problem then go about making it one.
 

Doctor Morbius

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Originally posted by Roadie_scum
. . . avoiding contact with school aged children . . .
I guess that leaves Michael Jackson out!! :p



Originally posted by edd
However a lot of athletes will continue training when they are a little "off colour" because they are not that ill yet and that's their regime. I said yet because it is this behavior that exacerbates viral infection. The general public takes a day off at the first sign of a sniffle, any excuse for a sickie, while athletes tend to tell themselves it's not a problem then go about making it one.
There's that OCD I was talking about. Athletes are always trying to push. One more mile or one more rep.
 

Roadie_scum

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I like this article. Nice work. My only quibble is where it says if you train 'too much' you will get sick, and that means you are overtrained. Depending on your goals, that level of training (where you get to the right hand upper end of the 'j shaped curve') may be necessary. But definitely good advice on avoiding glycogen depletion.


Sadly, this link didn't work for me.

Anyone have links to stuff about how to start training again, what sort of training to do, how to reintroduce intensity etc?
 

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