In search of lower gearing on road bike



> Sure beats being dropped by tandems on downhills from when I only had a
> 13.


Drafting a tandem (or car or fast bike) at high speeds, you'll almost always
be better off *not* pedaling. You'll be more aerodynamic tucked in. It takes
a bit of patience not to *do* anything (as in pedal), but on any grade where
a tandem (or anything else) can hit speeds in excess of 40mph, drafting is
probably the best way to keep up (even if you had monstrously-high gears).
Obviously, this requires a reasonable grade; as things flatten out, gearing
becomes relevant again at high speeds (speeds attainable only by drafting
off a motorized vehicle, since no standard bike/rider can do much better
than 30mph for a significant amount of time on flat land in still air.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


"Chris Neary" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:p[email protected]...
> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>> >I'm running the largest in front of 52 and the smallest rear is 11. I'm
>>>>finding that I'm now running out of gearing on flat/straights and I'm
>>>>looking for a bit more gearing. My mechanic checked it and suggested
>>>>going
>>>>to a 54 or 55 on the front to get the extra bit I'm needing.
>>>
>>> You routinely ride at 30+ MPH on the flats?

>
>>
>>55/11 is good for a whole lot higher than 30mph.

>
> Ya, I based my calc on 52/11 @ 80 RPM.
>
>>I can still pedal at 44mph if need be (downhill
>>sprint, certainly not on the flats!!!).

>
> Thats around where I top out too - downhill - with my 52/12.
>
> Sure beats being dropped by tandems on downhills from when I only had a
> 13.
>
>
> Chris Neary
> [email protected]
>
> "Science, freedom, beauty, adventure: what more could
> you ask of life? Bicycling combined all the elements I
> loved" - Adapted from a quotation by Charles Lindbergh
 
"Peter Cole" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>>>>In any event, your LBS appears to be correct when they pegged you as a
>>>>"gear masher" but they failed you in not telling you what that meant,
>>>>including the downsides to both your efficiency and the health of your
>>>>knees.
>>>
>>>Efficiency is actually better at low cadences -- which is why most TT
>>>riders use them. Larger riders may prefer lower cadences. I have a 55 x
>>>11 on one bike, 53 x 11 on another, I use those ratios. My knees are
>>>fine, too.

>>
>>
>> As Jobst has pointed out, gearing is also a function of what you got used
>> to way back in the day. The TT issue is a bit different than what's
>> applicable for most riders though. It (using extremely-high gearing)
>> assumes quite a few things, including-
>>
>> #1: Steady-state riding with little need to accelerate. Definitely not
>> for use riding in a pack.
>> #2: No need for wide gear range, because there either aren't any big
>> hills *or* the racer is so strong that he/she can power up them and still
>> keep a reasonable cadence.
>> #3: Easier to stay in "drone mode" at lower RPMs, as you develop
>> something of a momentum effect in those big gears.
>> #4: Such high, sustained speeds that the cadence isn't all that low
>> anyway. TTs are run at 30mph+ these days, not like back-in-the-day when
>> you were strong if you could ride a 40k/25-miler in under an hour.
>>
>> Those don't apply to "social" riding in groups (except where it's
>> dead-flat? Sorry, but I can't relate to that), and you'll notice that
>> Grand Tour racers (Giro, TDF & Vuelta) on long breakaways aren't using
>> such high gears either.

>
> The difference between a 52 x 12 and a 55 x 11 is only around 15%. Surely
> riders' preferred cadences can vary that amount? WRT efficiency, I think
> you missed my point. Lower cadences are more efficient (aerobically). When
> you are in an aerobic capacity limited mode, you'll do better, all other
> things being equal, with a lower cadence. Sprinting requires higher
> cadence to develop power, long-distance rides to delay muscle fatigue.
>
> Large riders typically have worse power to weight and better power to drag
> numbers. That makes us relatively poor climbers but good on the flats. On
> "social" rides with a rolling course, I've found I can catch a group that
> has dropped me on a climb. I frequently break away on descents and
> sometimes can stay away from a group of otherwise matched individuals.
>
> I ride a fixed gear a lot and can spin at 150 or so, but I develop my
> maximum sustained power at much lower cadences, probably 50-60.


I guess I should've specified. I never planned to ride in the 55/11 gearing
all the time. I'll still have the shifting, so I'd plan to just shift when
needed. The only reason I'd use that gearing (the same as I do now) is when
the need arises and I get in those situations where I can go faster. Right
now, I've found myself in more than several instances in the past couple
days where I could simply maintain the speed, but didn't have the drive
force to go faster....even though the conditions allowed it and were good
enough. Mostly I've found me getting into these faster situations after I
changed from the stock Alex wheels on my bike to the Spinergys.

I guess it's kinda like buying a really fast motorcycle or car. Am I going
to drive it 180mph all the time? No, but if I ever wanted to and the
conditions were right, I'd have it available to do so.

I've learned quite a bit from this discussion though. Thanks everyone!

Brian
 
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>>Sure beats being dropped by tandems on downhills from when I only had a
>>13.

>
>
> Drafting a tandem (or car or fast bike) at high speeds, you'll almost always
> be better off *not* pedaling. You'll be more aerodynamic tucked in. It takes
> a bit of patience not to *do* anything (as in pedal), but on any grade where
> a tandem (or anything else) can hit speeds in excess of 40mph, drafting is
> probably the best way to keep up (even if you had monstrously-high gears).
> Obviously, this requires a reasonable grade; as things flatten out, gearing
> becomes relevant again at high speeds (speeds attainable only by drafting
> off a motorized vehicle, since no standard bike/rider can do much better
> than 30mph for a significant amount of time on flat land in still air.


Just to inject a foot note here, the world record for speed pedaling is
35 MPH held for one hour. I don't know if it was inside a velodrome or
out on a speedway but I do remember reading it somewhere. I don't think
even Lance, Jan, or Tyler (Indurain?) could do that pace.
2 cents of trivia.
Bill Baka
And please don't ask for references since I read that about 3 years ago.
>
> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
> www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>
>
> "Chris Neary" <[email protected] > wrote in message
> news:p[email protected]...
>
>>"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>>I'm running the largest in front of 52 and the smallest rear is 11. I'm
>>>>>finding that I'm now running out of gearing on flat/straights and I'm
>>>>>looking for a bit more gearing. My mechanic checked it and suggested
>>>>>going
>>>>>to a 54 or 55 on the front to get the extra bit I'm needing.
>>>>
>>>>You routinely ride at 30+ MPH on the flats?

>>
>>>55/11 is good for a whole lot higher than 30mph.

>>
>>Ya, I based my calc on 52/11 @ 80 RPM.
>>
>>
>>>I can still pedal at 44mph if need be (downhill
>>>sprint, certainly not on the flats!!!).

>>
>>Thats around where I top out too - downhill - with my 52/12.
>>
>>Sure beats being dropped by tandems on downhills from when I only had a
>>13.
>>
>>
>>Chris Neary
>>[email protected]
>>
>>"Science, freedom, beauty, adventure: what more could
>>you ask of life? Bicycling combined all the elements I
>>loved" - Adapted from a quotation by Charles Lindbergh

>
>
>
 
On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 19:32:09 -0700, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:


>
>Just to inject a foot note here, the world record for speed pedaling is
>35 MPH held for one hour. I don't know if it was inside a velodrome or
>out on a speedway but I do remember reading it somewhere. I don't think
>even Lance, Jan, or Tyler (Indurain?) could do that pace.
>2 cents of trivia.
>Bill Baka
>And please don't ask for references since I read that about 3 years ago.
>>


So, you had some need to post information, that you can't or won't
verify? Why bother?

For a supposed genius, you sure don't get it, do you? You remind me
of one of those guys, who has to interject himself into conversations,
even when you know nothing of the topic. Of course for you, that is
SOP.

Jeff
 
"Bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>>>Sure beats being dropped by tandems on downhills from when I only had a
>>>13.

>>
>>
>> Drafting a tandem (or car or fast bike) at high speeds, you'll almost
>> always be better off *not* pedaling. You'll be more aerodynamic tucked
>> in. It takes a bit of patience not to *do* anything (as in pedal), but on
>> any grade where a tandem (or anything else) can hit speeds in excess of
>> 40mph, drafting is probably the best way to keep up (even if you had
>> monstrously-high gears). Obviously, this requires a reasonable grade; as
>> things flatten out, gearing becomes relevant again at high speeds (speeds
>> attainable only by drafting off a motorized vehicle, since no standard
>> bike/rider can do much better than 30mph for a significant amount of time
>> on flat land in still air.

>
> Just to inject a foot note here, the world record for speed pedaling is 35
> MPH held for one hour. I don't know if it was inside a velodrome or out on
> a speedway but I do remember reading it somewhere. I don't think even
> Lance, Jan, or Tyler (Indurain?) could do that pace.
> 2 cents of trivia.
> Bill Baka
> And please don't ask for references since I read that about 3 years ago.


I didn't do the number crunching on it, but didn't Lance Armstrong do his TT
in the Tour this last time with something like 36 miles in about an hour and
a couple minutes?

Not to get an argument started, but I seem to recall something like that...

Brian
 
Peter Cole wrote:

> A 15% taller gear doesn't make you 15% faster, more likely, it just
> lowers your cadence by 15%. Many seem to think that the "best" cadence
> is the same for all, but it's not -- nor is it the same for all types of
> riding. As for me, I'm 15% taller than average, so a 15% lower cadence
> seems natural for just riding around.
>
> One thing I've learned from riding a fixed gear is just how much power
> is required to spin legs at high cadences even when not providing any
> real power to the wheel. Spinning has an "overhead" -- sometimes it's
> offset by a greater advantage, other times not. The other surprising
> lesson from riding a fixer is how unimportant gears and cadence really are.


I agree with you Peter that a 15% taller gear won't make a cyclist 15%
faster, just as I agree that there is no universal "ideal" cadence. My
somewhat tongue in cheek reply to your post was a response to your use
of the word "only" to describe what IMO is a very significant jump in
gearing.

Regards,
Bob Hunt
 
Jeff Starr wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 19:32:09 -0700, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>
>> Just to inject a foot note here, the world record for speed pedaling
>> is 35 MPH held for one hour. I don't know if it was inside a
>> velodrome or out on a speedway but I do remember reading it
>> somewhere. I don't think even Lance, Jan, or Tyler (Indurain?) could
>> do that pace. 2 cents of trivia.
>> Bill Baka
>> And please don't ask for references since I read that about 3 years
>> ago.
>>>

>
> So, you had some need to post information, that you can't or won't
> verify? Why bother?
>
> For a supposed genius, you sure don't get it, do you? You remind me
> of one of those guys, who has to interject himself into conversations,
> even when you know nothing of the topic. Of course for you, that is
> SOP.


OK, we /really/ have to vote now.

Is Bill Baka really:

1) Iron Bill

2) Ernest T. Bass

3) Cliff Claven

Please note that I get a 5-cent royalty payment every time one of these
references is used. (Last spring I received a cashier's check for $1.30.
It bounced. Very funny RBM.)

I vote for Iron T. Claven.

Bill "registered independent" S.
 
Bob wrote:

>
> I agree with you Peter that a 15% taller gear won't make a cyclist 15%
> faster, just as I agree that there is no universal "ideal" cadence. My
> somewhat tongue in cheek reply to your post was a response to your use
> of the word "only" to describe what IMO is a very significant jump in
> gearing.
>


Since taking up fixed gear riding several years ago, I've become used to
varying my cadence from 30-150 over the course of a ride. That 15%
variation (say 75-90) seems like nothing in comparison.

All gearing choices simply indicate cadence preferences. I like to vary
my cadence on different kinds of rides without changing bikes/wheels.
For long distance rides (centuries, double centuries, etc.) I prefer a
higher cadence to delay muscle fatigue. For fast club rides and short
time trials, I prefer a much lower cadence to optimize cardio-vascular
limitations. The net of it is that I have a very wide gearing range
(55x11->30x28) and use the full range under different circumstances.
 
Bill Sornson wrote:

> OK, we /really/ have to vote now.
>
> Is Bill Baka really:
>
> 1) Iron Bill
>
> 2) Ernest T. Bass
>
> 3) Cliff Claven
>
> Please note that I get a 5-cent royalty payment every time one of these
> references is used. (Last spring I received a cashier's check for $1.30.
> It bounced. Very funny RBM.)
>
> I vote for Iron T. Claven.
>
> Bill "registered independent" S.



1) Iron Bill? No. To the best of my knowledge Bill B. doesn't even
*own* a drum.

2) He can't be Ernest T. Bass either because he's been here awhile and
he certainly would have mentioned by now what a great view he enjoys
from the top of that light pole.

3) I was tempted to cast my vote for Cliffie until I realized that
there's no way Bill B. would ever work for the USPS. All mail carriers
are implanted with RFID tracking chips after all and Bill would never
stand for that.

I think he's actually Walter Mitty.

Regards,
Bob Hunt

P.S.- I know I've referred to all three of your candidates but times
are tough so I'll have to owe you the fifteen cents. I'd rather owe you
than beat you out of it.
 
Bob wrote:
> Bill Sornson wrote:
>
>> OK, we /really/ have to vote now.
>>
>> Is Bill Baka really:
>>
>> 1) Iron Bill
>>
>> 2) Ernest T. Bass
>>
>> 3) Cliff Claven
>>
>> Please note that I get a 5-cent royalty payment every time one of
>> these references is used. (Last spring I received a cashier's check
>> for $1.30. It bounced. Very funny RBM.)
>>
>> I vote for Iron T. Claven.
>>
>> Bill "registered independent" S.



> 1) Iron Bill? No. To the best of my knowledge Bill B. doesn't even
> *own* a drum.


The original "Iron Bill" moniker was for his rather far-fetched tales of
100+-mile rides and 3-hour marathons -- with swim breaks in lakes along the
way. (Although, he IS in redwood country, so a little Iron John-ishness is
relevant too?)

> 2) He can't be Ernest T. Bass either because he's been here awhile and
> he certainly would have mentioned by now what a great view he enjoys
> from the top of that light pole.


Ah, but that was in the 1960s. He's too old for that **** now. (In fact,
the actor who /portrayed/ the /real/ Ernest T. just passed away, sad to
say.) Still throws a mean rock through plate glass, however.

> 3) I was tempted to cast my vote for Cliffie until I realized that
> there's no way Bill B. would ever work for the USPS. All mail carriers
> are implanted with RFID tracking chips after all and Bill would never
> stand for that.


Again, RETIREMENT has its advantages.

> I think he's actually Walter Mitty.
>
> Regards,
> Bob Hunt
>
> P.S.- I know I've referred to all three of your candidates but times
> are tough so I'll have to owe you the fifteen cents. I'd rather owe
> you than beat you out of it.


The voting process is exempt from normal royalty requirements, but thanks
for the thought!

Bill "Iron T. 'Cliffie' Mitty?" S.
 
Brian Walker wrote:
> I didn't do the number crunching on it, but didn't Lance Armstrong do his TT
> in the Tour this last time with something like 36 miles in about an hour and
> a couple minutes?
>
> Not to get an argument started, but I seem to recall something like that...
>
> Brian


Let's do the number crunching! The last TT of the Tour was 55.5km.
Lance did it in 1:11:46 (h:mm:ss). That works out to be 1.196 hours.
So, we take 55.5km / 1.196 hours to get an average speed of 46.4 km/hr.

The conversion for kmph to mph is 1 kilometer/hour = 0.6213712
mile/hour (mph).

So, Lance's average speed was 46.4kmph * 0.6213712 = 28.8 mph!

-Buck
 
Brian Walker wrote:
> "Bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>>
>>>>Sure beats being dropped by tandems on downhills from when I only had a
>>>>13.
>>>
>>>
>>>Drafting a tandem (or car or fast bike) at high speeds, you'll almost
>>>always be better off *not* pedaling. You'll be more aerodynamic tucked
>>>in. It takes a bit of patience not to *do* anything (as in pedal), but on
>>>any grade where a tandem (or anything else) can hit speeds in excess of
>>>40mph, drafting is probably the best way to keep up (even if you had
>>>monstrously-high gears). Obviously, this requires a reasonable grade; as
>>>things flatten out, gearing becomes relevant again at high speeds (speeds
>>>attainable only by drafting off a motorized vehicle, since no standard
>>>bike/rider can do much better than 30mph for a significant amount of time
>>>on flat land in still air.

>>
>>Just to inject a foot note here, the world record for speed pedaling is 35
>>MPH held for one hour. I don't know if it was inside a velodrome or out on
>>a speedway but I do remember reading it somewhere. I don't think even
>>Lance, Jan, or Tyler (Indurain?) could do that pace.
>>2 cents of trivia.
>>Bill Baka
>>And please don't ask for references since I read that about 3 years ago.

>
>
> I didn't do the number crunching on it, but didn't Lance Armstrong do his TT
> in the Tour this last time with something like 36 miles in about an hour and
> a couple minutes?
>
> Not to get an argument started, but I seem to recall something like that...
>
> Brian
>
>

Yes,
But that was on a course with turns, spectators, and French roads. He
might be able to break that 35 MPH record if he put his mind to it,
since he doesn't have to worry about the TdF anymore.
When I get time I will try to track down the original source or it may
be in the Guinness Book. Getting in the book seems to be something that
is set up in advance with official witnesses or some such thing so even
if Lance did break the record he would have to do it again under
official observation (I think.).
Bill
 
Jeff Starr wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 19:32:09 -0700, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>>Just to inject a foot note here, the world record for speed pedaling is
>>35 MPH held for one hour. I don't know if it was inside a velodrome or
>>out on a speedway but I do remember reading it somewhere. I don't think
>>even Lance, Jan, or Tyler (Indurain?) could do that pace.
>>2 cents of trivia.
>>Bill Baka
>>And please don't ask for references since I read that about 3 years ago.
>>

>
> So, you had some need to post information, that you can't or won't
> verify? Why bother?
>
> For a supposed genius, you sure don't get it, do you? You remind me
> of one of those guys, who has to interject himself into conversations,
> even when you know nothing of the topic. Of course for you, that is
> SOP.
>
> Jeff


Here is the whole rundown for the idiots, Jeff Starr comes to mind, that
think all I do is blow smoke.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/veloarchive/races/hour.htm

There are many more sites on the subject and a lot of controversy about
traditional or recumbent, at sea level or a mile up in Mexico, but it
looks like the record is now above 40 MPH. I gave the site that actually
listed the record holders. I believe that the new rules are going to be
for traditional bikes only with no recumbent cheating, and there may
possibly be a sea level ruling coming. What got my attention was that
they did mention a possible attempt by Lance, which should prove
interesting and the icing on the cake if he takes the record.
Bill Baka
 
Buck wrote:
> Brian Walker wrote:
>
>>I didn't do the number crunching on it, but didn't Lance Armstrong do his TT
>>in the Tour this last time with something like 36 miles in about an hour and
>>a couple minutes?
>>
>>Not to get an argument started, but I seem to recall something like that...
>>
>>Brian

>
>
> Let's do the number crunching! The last TT of the Tour was 55.5km.
> Lance did it in 1:11:46 (h:mm:ss). That works out to be 1.196 hours.
> So, we take 55.5km / 1.196 hours to get an average speed of 46.4 km/hr.
>
> The conversion for kmph to mph is 1 kilometer/hour = 0.6213712
> mile/hour (mph).
>
> So, Lance's average speed was 46.4kmph * 0.6213712 = 28.8 mph!
>
> -Buck
>

That was not in a velodrome but with city twists and turns.
See this site...
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/veloarchive/races/hour.htm
Bill
 
Bill Sornson wrote:
> Jeff Starr wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 19:32:09 -0700, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Just to inject a foot note here, the world record for speed pedaling
>>>is 35 MPH held for one hour. I don't know if it was inside a
>>>velodrome or out on a speedway but I do remember reading it
>>>somewhere. I don't think even Lance, Jan, or Tyler (Indurain?) could
>>>do that pace. 2 cents of trivia.
>>>Bill Baka
>>>And please don't ask for references since I read that about 3 years
>>>ago.
>>>

>>So, you had some need to post information, that you can't or won't
>>verify? Why bother?
>>
>>For a supposed genius, you sure don't get it, do you? You remind me
>>of one of those guys, who has to interject himself into conversations,
>>even when you know nothing of the topic. Of course for you, that is
>>SOP.

>
>
> OK, we /really/ have to vote now.
>
> Is Bill Baka really:
>
> 1) Iron Bill
>
> 2) Ernest T. Bass
>
> 3) Cliff Claven
>
> Please note that I get a 5-cent royalty payment every time one of these
> references is used. (Last spring I received a cashier's check for $1.30.
> It bounced. Very funny RBM.)
>
> I vote for Iron T. Claven.
>
> Bill "registered independent" S.
>
>

Here is the site (one of many)...
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/veloarchive/races/hour.htm
The recumbents have been pretty much outlawed for this event so it will
be the rider and not an aerodynamically cheating bike that gets the record.
Bill
 
Bill Sornson wrote:
> Bob wrote:
>
>>Bill Sornson wrote:
>>
>>
>>>OK, we /really/ have to vote now.
>>>
>>>Is Bill Baka really:
>>>
>>>1) Iron Bill
>>>
>>>2) Ernest T. Bass
>>>
>>>3) Cliff Claven
>>>
>>>Please note that I get a 5-cent royalty payment every time one of
>>>these references is used. (Last spring I received a cashier's check
>>>for $1.30. It bounced. Very funny RBM.)
>>>
>>>I vote for Iron T. Claven.
>>>
>>>Bill "registered independent" S.

>
>
>
>>1) Iron Bill? No. To the best of my knowledge Bill B. doesn't even
>>*own* a drum.

>
>
> The original "Iron Bill" moniker was for his rather far-fetched tales of
> 100+-mile rides and 3-hour marathons -- with swim breaks in lakes along the
> way. (Although, he IS in redwood country, so a little Iron John-ishness is
> relevant too?)


My longest has been 9 hours, not all on the bike and not trying to get
bragging rights that I averaged 20 MPH all day. I probably averaged
around 12-13 MPH. The swimming hole is on a non paved but MTB ridable
maintenance road that you would not want to take a 700cm road bike on
unless you wanted to repair a lot of pinch flats. A few hours of that 9
were hiking and carrying the bike up to the waterfall. Another hour was
sans bike hiking a deer trail that most people would avoid.
And, NO, it is NOT redwood country.
>
>
>>2) He can't be Ernest T. Bass either because he's been here awhile and
>>he certainly would have mentioned by now what a great view he enjoys
>>from the top of that light pole.


I haven't seen the 'Ernest' movies so "What light pole?"
>
>
> Ah, but that was in the 1960s. He's too old for that **** now.


I still do much of what I did in the 60's, and my sister at 70 still
does much of the same.

(In fact,
> the actor who /portrayed/ the /real/ Ernest T. just passed away, sad to
> say.)


He started here doing John L. Sullivan car commercials.
Jim Varney was his real name (I think) and I still see some of his
commercials as reruns.

Still throws a mean rock through plate glass, however.
>
>
>>3) I was tempted to cast my vote for Cliffie until I realized that
>>there's no way Bill B. would ever work for the USPS. All mail carriers
>>are implanted with RFID tracking chips after all and Bill would never
>>stand for that.

>

No way. I might go 'Postal'.
>
> Again, RETIREMENT has its advantages.
>
>
>>I think he's actually Walter Mitty.
>>
>>Regards,
>>Bob Hunt
>>
>>P.S.- I know I've referred to all three of your candidates but times
>>are tough so I'll have to owe you the fifteen cents. I'd rather owe
>>you than beat you out of it.

>
>
> The voting process is exempt from normal royalty requirements, but thanks
> for the thought!
>
> Bill "Iron T. 'Cliffie' Mitty?" S.
>
>

As for those long 6 to 9 hour bike rides, they are not planned all that
much since I just head up into the mountains and find some interesting
dirt road turn offs to follow. The swimming hole/waterfall trip is about
70 miles on the bike and I don't know how much hiking. Other trips I
just have to guess and navigate by sunlight which wasn't taught in boy
scouts since every good scout was supposed to have a compass. My trips
are in California's old gold country so there is no shortage of old
roads to follow. I don't go out to 'train' or set a new speed record,
only to get places that a car can't and a motorcycle would bring down
the cops (fire hazard).
Bill (counting only a handful of a$$holes so far) Baka
 
> For fast club rides and short time trials, I prefer a much lower cadence
>to optimize cardio-vascular limitations.


You don't find yourself at a disadvantage responding to speed variations
within the pacline/group?


Chris Neary
[email protected]

"Toleration is the greatest gift of the mind; it requires the
same effort of the brain that it takes to balance oneself on
a bicycle" - Helen Keller
 
Chris Neary wrote:
>>For fast club rides and short time trials, I prefer a much lower cadence
>>to optimize cardio-vascular limitations.

>
>
> You don't find yourself at a disadvantage responding to speed variations
> within the pacline/group?


Usually the pace line groups I ride with maintain a pretty constant
speed. Sometimes individual riders may get frisky and accelerate when
it's their time to pull. I may match the acceleration or not. If I do,
I'll usually downshift and pick up my cadence, if not, I'll pull out and
(usually) catch them down the road (ditto for climbs).

My size makes me more like a tandem (fast on flats & descents, slow on
climbs and sprints). Rather than trying to improve my weakness, I've had
more success exploiting my strengths. I've concentrated on aerodynamics
and position on the bike, I'm one of the few who rides tall gears and
aerobars. Since I can usually solo ride the same loop as fast as the
pacelines, I don't try to keep up on climbs and sprints, but rather
attempt to chase back on the flats. This usually works unless there's a
headwind where the paceline has an impossible aerodynamic advantage (if
they're working well, which they often are not).

Most of the people I ride with are much smaller and lighter. They like
to compete on climbs (mostly short on the rolling courses we ride).
Invariably they sit up and rest at the tops, which is where I keep my
pace and usually close the gap. On sections where there is a descent
followed by a long straight section, I can sometimes get away and stay
away for several miles -- always a thrill.

Most club riders approach a ride like a road race. I much prefer to ride
a paceline like a group time trial. Our rides generally don't have many
out & out sprints, but when they do, I opt out because they are much too
sketchy. An ideal ride for me is a small (5-7), smoothly rotating line
with short pulls where the climbers go to the back at the top and let
the bricks pull the descents/flats, with an overall steady, fast pace.
In those rare circumstances I can beat my solo times significantly.
 
Peter Cole wrote:
> An ideal ride for me is a small (5-7), smoothly rotating line
> with short pulls where the climbers go to the back at the top and let
> the bricks pull the descents/flats, with an overall steady, fast pace.
> In those rare circumstances I can beat my solo times significantly.


That sounds like *everyone's* ideal ride. It certainly sounds good to
me. :)

Regards,
Bob Hunt
 
Bill wrote:

> Bob wrote:
> >> He can't be Ernest T. Bass either because he's been here awhile and
> >>he certainly would have mentioned by now what a great view he enjoys
> >>from the top of that light pole.

>
> I haven't seen the 'Ernest' movies so "What light pole?"


Wrong Ernest, Bill. Think back to the old "Andy Griffith Show" and
Mayberry.

Regards,
Bob Hunt