In search of Robert Millar - cycling's Morrissey.

Discussion in 'Professional Cycling' started by whiteboytrash, Jun 16, 2007.

  1. whiteboytrash

    whiteboytrash New Member

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    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Search-Robert-Millar-Unravelling-Surrounding/dp/0007235011 - New book released on the life and career of Robert Millar Britons best cyclist. He's where abouts now is unknown... some say he had a sex change but not known.... Millar was known as the domestique de luxe... he helped many... Anderson, Roche, Lemond and Pensec. Looks to be a good read..... my favorite Millar moment was on d'Huez in 1990 when he rode yellow jersey holder Penec up the mountain to hold the jersey for another day... the French were cheering him all the way and the French all speak of him highly... Millar could have won that day but sacrificed himself for Pensec...
     
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  2. limerickman

    limerickman Moderator

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    The best British cyclist ever in my humble opinion.

    An absolutely superb climber - this man was a class act on the bike.
    Polka dot (climbing) category winner at the TDF and should have won the 85 Vuelta were it not for the fact that he was cheated out of winning that GT.
    Stephen Roche told me that his 87 Giro win was helped in no small measure by the fact that Millar worked for him - even through Bob was riding for a different team.
    Roche and Millars friendship from the ACBB meant team rivalries were suspended in the face of hostile Italian reaction to Roche's lead at the Giro.

    Memories of Millar?
    The TDF 1984 when riding for Peuguot Millar literally rode the legs of Hinault, Delgado, Fignon, Roche, Luis Herrara to win at Guzet Neige.
    Millar won the Polka Dot jersey that year.
    Great rider.
     
  3. classic1

    classic1 Well-Known Member

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    cough Bullshit cough :D

    Simpsons palmares pwns Millars.
     
  4. Eagle of Toledo

    Eagle of Toledo New Member

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    Millar was a pure climber if ever I saw one. I remember when he came second at the Tour de L'Avenir behind Lemond (only a couple of years before the 84 TDF from memory). Back then all we got downunder were black and white cycle mags but even then you could see he was going to be lighting it up on the climbs.
     
  5. wolfix

    wolfix New Member

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    A Millar vs Simpson argument would be a good one. Simpson seems to be the favorite of the British. However, neither cyclist would make the top 100 of the greatest cyclists of all time.
    Amazing how things turn with time........ Simpson died on the mountain with dope in his pocket. And no one cared. Today, they are crucifying riders who are simply "alleged." I prefer the older days.

    I hope to read the book.
     
  6. limerickman

    limerickman Moderator

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    Millars record is better than Tom Simpson's, I would offer.
    Simpson was a great cyclist but his record in grand tours is dwarfed by Millar's.

    Granted Simpson won the world road race title, Tour of Flanders, Milan-San Remo.

    Millars winning of the Polka Dot jersey in 1984, his 1985 Tour of Catalonia win,
    2nd in the 1985 Vuelta, 2nd in the 1986 Vuelta and winner of the climbers jersey, 2nd in the 1987 Giro and winner of the climbers jersey, his 1990 win in the Dauphine, 2nd in the Tour of Switzerland 1990, persaude me that Millar was the best British rider ever.
     
  7. wolfix

    wolfix New Member

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    The cycling Hall of Fame website rates them almost exactly the same. In defense of Millar, he should have had a Vuelta added to his record. But an injustice was done there by the Spanish. Millar was a specialist climber and that was his strenghth. Simpson seemed to be a a better all-arounder.......
    I think it is hard to compare different time periods of cycling. The role of team leader seemed to have changed over the years. Simpson rode when cycling was not as international as the time period of Millar. Both of them faced international language barriers when they were beginning pro's. Millar did have P Anderson and Roche to turn to..
    Both were excellent cyclists. But Simpson seems to have legendary status where Millar does not. But that may be because he died during a race.
    Still, a good argument over who is the best!!!!!!
     
  8. classic1

    classic1 Well-Known Member

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    Simpson pwns Millar

    Tour of Flanders
    World Road Champion
    Bordeaux- Paris
    Tour of Lombardy
    Milan-Sanremo
    Paris-Nice

    plus a string of stage wins in stage races and placings in classics as long as your arm. He even won a six-day. Much more versatile than Millar with a better palmares, including big wins. Millar won bugger all by comparison and only really had one ace up his sleeve, his climbing ability. Phil Anderson has a better list of wins than Millar and I would even argue Simpson has a bettter palmares than Anderson.
     
  9. limerickman

    limerickman Moderator

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    Fair summary.

    Curious that they (Millar and Simpson) both rode for Peuguot!
     
  10. wolfix

    wolfix New Member

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  11. classic1

    classic1 Well-Known Member

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    Have a look at Andersons list of wins. He won everything Millar did (KOMs aside), plus a Tour de Suisse and a couple of classics.
     
  12. wolfix

    wolfix New Member

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    P Anderson never was on the podium of a GT....Millar was 5 times. A 3rd place podium at a GT is worth many classic wins. And millar had his share of 2nd's. But if you look at a point system that attaches a numerical point for victories in the classics and GT podium placings , there are these riders ahead of P Anderson. Phil would be at the bottom of these riders. Sorry for the long list.

    AS OF 2007/06/03 COMBINED OVERALL RANKING


    ALL-TIME LIST CURRENT RIDERS

    Name Points Name Points

    1 Eddy Merckx, BEL 21610
    2 Bernard Hinault, FRA 14120
    3 Fausto Coppi, ITA 10870
    4 Jacques Anquetil, FRA 10520
    5 Gino Bartali, ITA 10500
    6 Lance Armstrong, USA 10010
    7 Miguel Indurain, ESP 8950
    8 Felice Gimondi, ITA 7620
    9 Joop Zoetemelk, HOL 7610
    10 Louison Bobet, FRA 7490
    11 Greg Lemond, USA 6630
    12 Raymond Poulidor, FRA 6580 1
    13 Francesco Moser, ITA 6530
    14 Rik Van Looy, BEL 6380
    15 Alfredo Binda, ITA 6340
    16 Sean Kelly, IRE 6310
    17 Lucien Van Impe, BEL 6210
    18 Jan Ullrich, GER 6170
    19 Erik Zabel, GER 5710
    20 Federico Bahamontes, ESP 5420
    21 Laurent Fignon, FRA 5340
    22 Jan Janssen, HOL 5320
    23 Charly Gaul, LUX 5200
    24 Gustave Garrigou, FRA 4940
    25 Roger De Vlaeminck, BEL 4830
    26 Claudio Chiappucci, ITA 4810
    27 Ferdi Kubler, SWI 4690
    28 Tony Rominger, SWI 4590
    29 Philippe Thys, BEL 4530

    30 Antonin Magne, FRA 4490

    31 Nicolas Frantz, LUX 4490

    32 Laurent Jalabert, FRA 4470

    33 Richard Virenque, FRA 4370

    34 Giuseppe Saronni, ITA 4260

    35 Pedro Delgado, ESP 4120

    36 Freddy Maertens, BEL 4010

    37 Costante Girardengo, ITA 3950

    38 Andre Leducq, FRA 3930

    39 Fiorenzo Magni, ITA 3860

    40 Rik Van Steenbergen, BEL 3810

    41 Henri Pelissier, FRA 3780

    42 Bernard Thevenet, FRA 3730

    43 Francois Faber, LUX 3730

    44 Johan Museeuw, BEL 3680

    45 Gianni Bugno, ITA 3610

    46 Paolo Bettini, ITA 3590

    47 Marco Pantani, ITA 3580

    48 Stan Ockers, BEL 3540

    49 Giovanni Brunero, ITA 3390


    50 Jan Raas, HOL 3370

    51 Sylvere Maes, BEL 3290

    52 Learco Guerra, ITA 3280

    53 Ottavio Bottecchia, ITA 3250

    54 Hugo Koblet, SWI 3140

    55 Gastone Nencini, ITA 3130

    56 Firmin Lambot, BEL 3120

    57 Lucien Petit-Breton, FRA 3080

    58 Moreno Argentin, ITA 3070

    59 Luis Ocana, ESP 3060

    60 Hennie Kuiper, HOL 2990

    61 Stephen Roche, IRE 2980

    62 Herman Van Springel, BEL 2940
    0
    63 Alberic Schotte, BEL 2910

    64 Franco Bitossi, ITA 2730

    65 Jose Manuel Fuente, ESP 2690

    66 Gilberto Simoni, ITA 2640

    67 Lucien Buysse, BEL 2590

    68 Jean Alavoine, FRA 2580

    69 Gaetano Belloni, ITA 2570

    70 Alex Zulle, SWI 2550


    71 Louis Trousselier, FRA 2510

    72 Felicien Vervaecke, BEL 2470

    73 Maurice DeWaele, BEL 2470

    74 Roger Pingeon, FRA 2450

    75 Octave Lapize, FRA 2430
    76 Henri Suter, SWI 2390
    77 Walter Godefroot, BEL 2360
    78 Michele Bartoli, ITA 2340
    79 Julio Jimenez, ESP 2270
    80 Rudi Altig, GER 2260
    81 Franco Balmanion, ITA 2250
    82 Julian Berrendero, ESP 2190
    83 Steven Rooks, HOL 2150
    84 Maurice Garin, FRA 2140
    85 Raphael Geminiani, FRA 2120
    86 Roberto Heras, ESP 2100
    87 Fred De Bruyne, BEL 2090
    88 Georges Speicher, FRA 2080
    89 Andre Darrigade, FRA 2070
    90 Oscar Freire, ESP 2060
    91 Bartolomeo Aymo, ITA 2060
    92 Bjarne Riis, DEN 2050
    93 Joseph Demuysere, BEL 2020
    94 Giovanni Battaglin, ITA 1970
    95 Georges Ronsse, BEL 1960
    96 Roger Lapebie, FRA 1940
    97 Eugene Christophe, FRA 1920
    98 Joseba Beloki, ESP 1890
    99 Marcel Kint, BEL 1810
    100 Vittorio Adorni, ITA 1800
    101 Gianni Motta, ITA 1790
    102 Marino Lejarreta, ESP 1780
    103 Ivan Basso, ITA 1770
    104 Mario Cipollini, ITA 1760
    105 Luis Herrera, COL 1760
    106 Henri Cornet, FRA 1720
    107 Adri Van Der Poel, HOL 1710
    108 Alexander Vinokourov, KAZ 1700
    109 Georges Passerieu, FRA 1700
    110 Abraham Olano, ESP 1690
    111 Djamolidine Abdoujaparov, UZB 1690
    112 Giovanni Valetti, ITA 1680
    113 Leon Scieur, BEL 1670
    114 Tom Boonen, BEL 1660
    115 Rene Pottier, FRA 1570
    116 Jose Perez Frances, ESP 1570
    117 Fritz Schaer, SWI 1570
    118 Odile Defraye, BEL 1550
    119 Gianbattista Baronchelli, ITA 1540
    120 Danilo Di Luca, ITA 1520
    121 Claude Criquelion, BEL 1510
    122 Carlo Galetti, ITA 1500
    123 Paolo Savoldelli, ITA 1500
    124 Germain Derycke, BEL 1470
    125 Giuseppe Martano, ITA 1470
    126 Robbie McEwen, AUS 1450
    127 Romain Maes, BEL 1450
    128 Italo Zilioli, ITA 1450
    129 Alejandro Valverde, ESP 1450
    130 Guido Reybrouck, BEL 1420
    131 Francesco Camusso, ITA 1420
    132 Pavel Tonkov, RUS 1400
    133 Tom Simpson, GBR 1390
    134 Gaston Rebry, BEL 1390
    135 Bernardo Ruiz, ESP 1370
    136 Robert Millar, GBR 1370
    137 Andreas Kloden, GER 1330
    138 Raymond Impanis, BEL 1320
    139 Peter Van Petegem, BEL 1310
    140 Michel Pollentier, BEL 1300
    141 Andrea Tafi, ITA 1300
    142 Floyd Landis, USA 1300
    143 Jean Robic, FRA 1300
    144 Lucien Aimar, FRA 1300
    145 Roger Walkowiak, FRA 1300
    146 Hector Heusghem, BEL 1300
    147 Davide Rebellin, ITA 1290
    148 Johan Van de Velde, HOL 1290
    149 Joaquim Agostinho, POR 1290
    150 Jo De Roo, HOL 1290
    151 Hippolyte Aucouturier, FRA 1250
    152 Gustave Deloor, BEL 1250
    153 Ercole Baldini, ITA 1240
    154 Jean Stablinski, FRA 1210
    155 Ivan Gotti, ITA 1200
    156 Imerio Massignan, ITA 1200
    157 Emilio Rodriguez, ESP 1200
    158 Francesco Casagrande, ITA 1190
    159 Piotr Ugrumov, LAT 1190
    160 Andrei Tchmil, MOL 1180
    161 Paul Egli, SWI 1170
    162 Jean-Baptiste Dortignacq, FRA 1170
    163 Pascal Richard, SWI 1160
    164 Evgeni Berzin, RUS 1150
    165 Dietrich Thurau, GER 1150
    166 Maurizio Fondriest, ITA 1150
    167 Jesus Lorono, ESP 1140
    168 Jean Forestier, FRA 1140
    169 Eric Vanderaerden, BEL 1130
    170 Jean Brankart, BEL 1130
    171 Gosta Pettersson, SWE 1120
    172 Antonio Pesenti, ITA 1120
    173 Augustin Tamames, ESP 1100
    174 Luigi Ganna, ITA 1090
    175 Alfons Schepers, BEL 1080
    176 Erik Breukink, HOL 1060
    177 Felix Sellier, BEL 1060
    178 Olaf Ludwig, GER 1050
    179 Emile Georget, FRA 1040
    180 Giuseppe Olmo, ITA 1040
    181 Jean Adriaenssens, BEL 1040
    182 Antonio Suarez, ESP 1040
    183 Rene Vietto, FRA 1040
    184 Ferdinand Bracke, BEL 1020
    185 Fernando Escartin, ESP 1020
    186 Domingo Perurena, ESP 1020
    187 Andy Hampsten, USA 1020
    188 Gilbert Duclos-Lasalle, FRA 1020
    189 Marcel Buysse, BEL 1010
    190 Gustaf Danneels, BEL 1010
    191 Marcel Janssens, BEL 1000
    192 Delio Rodriguez, ESP 1000
    193 Paul Maye, FRA 990
    194 Leo Amberg, SWI 990
    195 Charly Mottet, FRA 980
    196 Cyrille Van Hauwaert, BEL 970
    197 Julien Vervaecke, BEL 970
    198 Domenico Piemontesi, ITA 950
    199 Giuseppe Pancera, ITA 950
    200 Charles Crupelandt, FRA 950
    201 Jose Maria Jimenez, ESP 950
    202 Emile Daems, BEL 950
    203 Eddy Planckaert, BEL 940
    204 Rolf Sorensen, DEN 930
    205 Nino Defilippis, ITA 920
    206 Pedro Torres, ESP 910
    207 Pierre Brambilla, FRA 910
    208 Raymond Martin, FRA 910
    209 Oscar Camenzind, SWI 900
    210 Johan De Muynck, BEL 900
    211 Noel Fore, BEL 900
    212 Rene Vermandel, BEL 900
    213 Roberto Visentini, ITA 900
    214 Joseph Planckaert, BEL 900
    215 Stefano Garzelli, ITA 900
    216 Mario Vicini, ITA 890
    217 Andre Dierickx, BEL 880
    218 Mauro Gianetti, SWI 880
    219 Franco Ballerini, ITA 870
    220 Eric Leman, BEL 870
    221 Gerrie Knetemann, HOL 860
    222 Miguel Maria Lasa, ESP 850
    223 Rik Van Linden, BEL 850
    224 Louis Mottiat, BEL 850
    225 Damiano Cunego, ITA 850
    226 Carlo Oriani, ITA 850
    227 Giuseppe Enrici, ITA 840
    228 Fausto Bertoglio, ITA 840
    229 Luigi Marchisio, ITA 840
    230 Franco Chioccioli, ITA 840
    231 Carlo Clerici, SWI 830
    232 Aldo Bini, ITA 820
    233 Andres Oliva, ESP 810
    234 Romain Gijssels, BEL 800
    235 Francisco Galdos, ESP 790
    236 Enrico Mollo, ITA 790
    237 Michael Rasmussen, DEN 780
    238 Jean Graczyck, FRA 780
    239 Paul Deman, BEL 780
    240 Raimondas Rumsas, LIT 770
    241 Vito Favero, ITA 770
    242 Lucien Pothier, FRA 770
    243 Miguel Poblet, ESP 770
    244 Fabio Parra, COL 770
    245 Kurt Stoepel, GER 770
    246 Aurelio Gonzalez, ESP 770
    247 Alessandro Petacchi, ITA 760
    248 Michele Dancelli, ITA 760
    249 Theo Middelkamp, HOL 760
    250 Urs Zimmermann, SWI 760
    251 Angel Casero, ESP 750
    252 Achiel Buysse, BEL 750
    253 Leon Houa, BEL 750
    254 Georges Pintens, BEL 750
    255 Jose-Luis Laguia, ESP 750
    256 Juan Fernandez, ESP 750
    257 Jose Pesarrodona, ESP 750
    258 Edwig Van Hooydonck, BEL 740
    259 Marco Giovannetti, ITA 740
    260 Erik Dekker, HOL 740
    261 Benoni Beheyt, BEL 740
    262 Angelo Conterno, ITA 730
    263 Edouard Fachleitner, FRA 730
    264 Thor Hushovd, NOR 730
    265 Marc Madiot, FRA 720
    266 Georges Claes, BEL 720
    267 Giordano Cottur, ITA 720
    268 Denis Verschueren, BEL 710
    269 Raimund Dietzen, GER 700
    270 Marino Basso, ITA 700
     
  13. wolfix

    wolfix New Member

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    Anderson did win 3 of the smaller Classics. Amstel Gold, Championship of Zurich,and Paris-Tours. He did not win one of the Classic Monuments. He never contested a GT. He was a very good rider, but not of the class of Millar and Simpson. Plus, he was an Aussie.
     
  14. janiejones

    janiejones New Member

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    Maybe he got fat, started writing crappy songs and moved to LA as well.:D :eek:
     
  15. heinkel12

    heinkel12 New Member

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    You might have bought yourself an argument here my friend! Millar was a great rider but better than Anderson? I dunno........They were very different types and it is really hard to match them head to head. Anderson was perhaps more of a Simpson type, could win just about anywhere but was found wanting in the really high mountains. But he won plenty of quality races elsewhere. Tour de Suisse and Dauphine Libere in the same year if I remember rightly. Tour of Romandie a couple of times and plenty of lesser tours.
    Ran second in a couple of Tours of Flanders, once after helping Vandearden to victory and a 3rd in Liege-Bastogne-Liege.
    As for not finishing on GT podiums, well Millar achieved this in the Vuelta and Giro. As far as I know Anderson never rode the Vuelta and was past his best as a GT rider by the time he went to the Giro so it's a moot point.
    And as for being an Aussie......well that's just another of the lucky breaks he got!:p
     
  16. Rhubarb

    Rhubarb New Member

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    That definitely takes him to the bottom of the list.
     
  17. wolfix

    wolfix New Member

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    What I meant by the Aussie remark was that the argument was about being the greatest British rider. Would we consider Anderson British? And Anderson was a great rider.
    I have always felt that the better riders could win GT's. And my argument is this...... A GT rider can win Classics, but not all Classic riders can win GT's. You have to be multi -talented to win a GT. There have been many Classic riders that are one dimensional. Museeuw,S Kelly,Boonen, and Cipo come to mind. Maybe one dimensional is not the correct terminology, these are great riders that were unable to win a GT. And yet I can't think of a GT winner that would not be able to win a Classic if they concentrated on it. To me a GT is multiple Classics in a row. A stage win is as good as a Classic.
    As a fan I prefer Classics, as I hate any race that a winner could be determined by a TT.
     
  18. classic1

    classic1 Well-Known Member

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    Anderson had four top 10's (inc a pair of fifth places) in the Tour. He also won GP Frankfurt twice (it was a prestigious Super Presitge Pernod race in the 80's and craps all over Hamburg for history, course and excitment)

    As I said, Anderson won everything Millar did (KOMs aside), plus a Tour de Suisse and a couple of classics.

    BTW, any list that has the likes of farkin Raimund Dietzen ahead of Phil Anderson is seriously flawed.:p
     
  19. Eagle of Toledo

    Eagle of Toledo New Member

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    Kelly won a GT - the Vuelta.

    Personally I think GT's are almost a totally different sport to one-day races and the last week is very telling.

    On the other hand there have been some very good riders (Bettini comes to mind) that will never win a GT.
     
  20. classic1

    classic1 Well-Known Member

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    Kelly pwns Simpson, Millar and Anderson combined. :)
     
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