In search of Robert Millar - cycling's Morrissey.



whiteboytrash

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http://www.amazon.co.uk/Search-Robert-Millar-Unravelling-Surrounding/dp/0007235011 - New book released on the life and career of Robert Millar Britons best cyclist. He's where abouts now is unknown... some say he had a sex change but not known.... Millar was known as the domestique de luxe... he helped many... Anderson, Roche, Lemond and Pensec. Looks to be a good read..... my favorite Millar moment was on d'Huez in 1990 when he rode yellow jersey holder Penec up the mountain to hold the jersey for another day... the French were cheering him all the way and the French all speak of him highly... Millar could have won that day but sacrificed himself for Pensec...
 

limerickman

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whiteboytrash said:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Search-Robert-Millar-Unravelling-Surrounding/dp/0007235011 - New book released on the life and career of Robert Millar Britons best cyclist. He's where abouts now is unknown... some say he had a sex change but not known.... Millar was known as the domestique de luxe... he helped many... Anderson, Roche, Lemond and Pensec. Looks to be a good read..... my favorite Millar moment was on d'Huez in 1990 when he rode yellow jersey holder Penec up the mountain to hold the jersey for another day... the French were cheering him all the way and the French all speak of him highly... Millar could have won that day but sacrificed himself for Pensec...

The best British cyclist ever in my humble opinion.

An absolutely superb climber - this man was a class act on the bike.
Polka dot (climbing) category winner at the TDF and should have won the 85 Vuelta were it not for the fact that he was cheated out of winning that GT.
Stephen Roche told me that his 87 Giro win was helped in no small measure by the fact that Millar worked for him - even through Bob was riding for a different team.
Roche and Millars friendship from the ACBB meant team rivalries were suspended in the face of hostile Italian reaction to Roche's lead at the Giro.

Memories of Millar?
The TDF 1984 when riding for Peuguot Millar literally rode the legs of Hinault, Delgado, Fignon, Roche, Luis Herrara to win at Guzet Neige.
Millar won the Polka Dot jersey that year.
Great rider.
 

Eagle of Toledo

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Millar was a pure climber if ever I saw one. I remember when he came second at the Tour de L'Avenir behind Lemond (only a couple of years before the 84 TDF from memory). Back then all we got downunder were black and white cycle mags but even then you could see he was going to be lighting it up on the climbs.
 

wolfix

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A Millar vs Simpson argument would be a good one. Simpson seems to be the favorite of the British. However, neither cyclist would make the top 100 of the greatest cyclists of all time.
Amazing how things turn with time........ Simpson died on the mountain with dope in his pocket. And no one cared. Today, they are crucifying riders who are simply "alleged." I prefer the older days.

I hope to read the book.
 

limerickman

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classic1 said:
cough ******** cough :D

Simpsons palmares pwns Millars.

Millars record is better than Tom Simpson's, I would offer.
Simpson was a great cyclist but his record in grand tours is dwarfed by Millar's.

Granted Simpson won the world road race title, Tour of Flanders, Milan-San Remo.

Millars winning of the Polka Dot jersey in 1984, his 1985 Tour of Catalonia win,
2nd in the 1985 Vuelta, 2nd in the 1986 Vuelta and winner of the climbers jersey, 2nd in the 1987 Giro and winner of the climbers jersey, his 1990 win in the Dauphine, 2nd in the Tour of Switzerland 1990, persaude me that Millar was the best British rider ever.
 

wolfix

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The cycling Hall of Fame website rates them almost exactly the same. In defense of Millar, he should have had a Vuelta added to his record. But an injustice was done there by the Spanish. Millar was a specialist climber and that was his strenghth. Simpson seemed to be a a better all-arounder.......
I think it is hard to compare different time periods of cycling. The role of team leader seemed to have changed over the years. Simpson rode when cycling was not as international as the time period of Millar. Both of them faced international language barriers when they were beginning pro's. Millar did have P Anderson and Roche to turn to..
Both were excellent cyclists. But Simpson seems to have legendary status where Millar does not. But that may be because he died during a race.
Still, a good argument over who is the best!!!!!!
 

classic1

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Simpson pwns Millar

Tour of Flanders
World Road Champion
Bordeaux- Paris
Tour of Lombardy
Milan-Sanremo
Paris-Nice

plus a string of stage wins in stage races and placings in classics as long as your arm. He even won a six-day. Much more versatile than Millar with a better palmares, including big wins. Millar won bugger all by comparison and only really had one ace up his sleeve, his climbing ability. Phil Anderson has a better list of wins than Millar and I would even argue Simpson has a bettter palmares than Anderson.
 

limerickman

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wolfix said:
The cycling Hall of Fame website rates them almost exactly the same. In defense of Millar, he should have had a Vuelta added to his record. But an injustice was done there by the Spanish. Millar was a specialist climber and that was his strenghth. Simpson seemed to be a a better all-arounder.......
I think it is hard to compare different time periods of cycling. The role of team leader seemed to have changed over the years. Simpson rode when cycling was not as international as the time period of Millar. Both of them faced international language barriers when they were beginning pro's. Millar did have P Anderson and Roche to turn to..
Both were excellent cyclists. But Simpson seems to have legendary status where Millar does not. But that may be because he died during a race.
Still, a good argument over who is the best!!!!!!

Fair summary.

Curious that they (Millar and Simpson) both rode for Peuguot!
 

classic1

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wolfix said:
Today is Eddy Merckx's birthday.

P Anderson would barely make he top 300 of all time cyclists. He was no Simpson, nor a Millar. Also.......a Aussie.
Have a look at Andersons list of wins. He won everything Millar did (KOMs aside), plus a Tour de Suisse and a couple of classics.
 

wolfix

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P Anderson never was on the podium of a GT....Millar was 5 times. A 3rd place podium at a GT is worth many classic wins. And millar had his share of 2nd's. But if you look at a point system that attaches a numerical point for victories in the classics and GT podium placings , there are these riders ahead of P Anderson. Phil would be at the bottom of these riders. Sorry for the long list.

AS OF 2007/06/03 COMBINED OVERALL RANKING


ALL-TIME LIST CURRENT RIDERS

Name Points Name Points

1 Eddy Merckx, BEL 21610
2 Bernard Hinault, FRA 14120
3 Fausto Coppi, ITA 10870
4 Jacques Anquetil, FRA 10520
5 Gino Bartali, ITA 10500
6 Lance Armstrong, USA 10010
7 Miguel Indurain, ESP 8950
8 Felice Gimondi, ITA 7620
9 Joop Zoetemelk, HOL 7610
10 Louison Bobet, FRA 7490
11 Greg Lemond, USA 6630
12 Raymond Poulidor, FRA 6580 1
13 Francesco Moser, ITA 6530
14 Rik Van Looy, BEL 6380
15 Alfredo Binda, ITA 6340
16 Sean Kelly, IRE 6310
17 Lucien Van Impe, BEL 6210
18 Jan Ullrich, GER 6170
19 Erik Zabel, GER 5710
20 Federico Bahamontes, ESP 5420
21 Laurent Fignon, FRA 5340
22 Jan Janssen, HOL 5320
23 Charly Gaul, LUX 5200
24 Gustave Garrigou, FRA 4940
25 Roger De Vlaeminck, BEL 4830
26 Claudio Chiappucci, ITA 4810
27 Ferdi Kubler, SWI 4690
28 Tony Rominger, SWI 4590
29 Philippe Thys, BEL 4530

30 Antonin Magne, FRA 4490

31 Nicolas Frantz, LUX 4490

32 Laurent Jalabert, FRA 4470

33 Richard Virenque, FRA 4370

34 Giuseppe Saronni, ITA 4260

35 Pedro Delgado, ESP 4120

36 Freddy Maertens, BEL 4010

37 Costante Girardengo, ITA 3950

38 Andre Leducq, FRA 3930

39 Fiorenzo Magni, ITA 3860

40 Rik Van Steenbergen, BEL 3810

41 Henri Pelissier, FRA 3780

42 Bernard Thevenet, FRA 3730

43 Francois Faber, LUX 3730

44 Johan Museeuw, BEL 3680

45 Gianni Bugno, ITA 3610

46 Paolo Bettini, ITA 3590

47 Marco Pantani, ITA 3580

48 Stan Ockers, BEL 3540

49 Giovanni Brunero, ITA 3390


50 Jan Raas, HOL 3370

51 Sylvere Maes, BEL 3290

52 Learco Guerra, ITA 3280

53 Ottavio Bottecchia, ITA 3250

54 Hugo Koblet, SWI 3140

55 Gastone Nencini, ITA 3130

56 Firmin Lambot, BEL 3120

57 Lucien Petit-Breton, FRA 3080

58 Moreno Argentin, ITA 3070

59 Luis Ocana, ESP 3060

60 Hennie Kuiper, HOL 2990

61 Stephen Roche, IRE 2980

62 Herman Van Springel, BEL 2940
0
63 Alberic Schotte, BEL 2910

64 Franco Bitossi, ITA 2730

65 Jose Manuel Fuente, ESP 2690

66 Gilberto Simoni, ITA 2640

67 Lucien Buysse, BEL 2590

68 Jean Alavoine, FRA 2580

69 Gaetano Belloni, ITA 2570

70 Alex Zulle, SWI 2550


71 Louis Trousselier, FRA 2510

72 Felicien Vervaecke, BEL 2470

73 Maurice DeWaele, BEL 2470

74 Roger Pingeon, FRA 2450

75 Octave Lapize, FRA 2430
76 Henri Suter, SWI 2390
77 Walter Godefroot, BEL 2360
78 Michele Bartoli, ITA 2340
79 Julio Jimenez, ESP 2270
80 Rudi Altig, GER 2260
81 Franco Balmanion, ITA 2250
82 Julian Berrendero, ESP 2190
83 Steven Rooks, HOL 2150
84 Maurice Garin, FRA 2140
85 Raphael Geminiani, FRA 2120
86 Roberto Heras, ESP 2100
87 Fred De Bruyne, BEL 2090
88 Georges Speicher, FRA 2080
89 Andre Darrigade, FRA 2070
90 Oscar Freire, ESP 2060
91 Bartolomeo Aymo, ITA 2060
92 Bjarne Riis, DEN 2050
93 Joseph Demuysere, BEL 2020
94 Giovanni Battaglin, ITA 1970
95 Georges Ronsse, BEL 1960
96 Roger Lapebie, FRA 1940
97 Eugene Christophe, FRA 1920
98 Joseba Beloki, ESP 1890
99 Marcel Kint, BEL 1810
100 Vittorio Adorni, ITA 1800
101 Gianni Motta, ITA 1790
102 Marino Lejarreta, ESP 1780
103 Ivan Basso, ITA 1770
104 Mario Cipollini, ITA 1760
105 Luis Herrera, COL 1760
106 Henri Cornet, FRA 1720
107 Adri Van Der Poel, HOL 1710
108 Alexander Vinokourov, KAZ 1700
109 Georges Passerieu, FRA 1700
110 Abraham Olano, ESP 1690
111 Djamolidine Abdoujaparov, UZB 1690
112 Giovanni Valetti, ITA 1680
113 Leon Scieur, BEL 1670
114 Tom Boonen, BEL 1660
115 Rene Pottier, FRA 1570
116 Jose Perez Frances, ESP 1570
117 Fritz Schaer, SWI 1570
118 Odile Defraye, BEL 1550
119 Gianbattista Baronchelli, ITA 1540
120 Danilo Di Luca, ITA 1520
121 Claude Criquelion, BEL 1510
122 Carlo Galetti, ITA 1500
123 Paolo Savoldelli, ITA 1500
124 Germain Derycke, BEL 1470
125 Giuseppe Martano, ITA 1470
126 Robbie McEwen, AUS 1450
127 Romain Maes, BEL 1450
128 Italo Zilioli, ITA 1450
129 Alejandro Valverde, ESP 1450
130 Guido Reybrouck, BEL 1420
131 Francesco Camusso, ITA 1420
132 Pavel Tonkov, RUS 1400
133 Tom Simpson, GBR 1390
134 Gaston Rebry, BEL 1390
135 Bernardo Ruiz, ESP 1370
136 Robert Millar, GBR 1370
137 Andreas Kloden, GER 1330
138 Raymond Impanis, BEL 1320
139 Peter Van Petegem, BEL 1310
140 Michel Pollentier, BEL 1300
141 Andrea Tafi, ITA 1300
142 Floyd Landis, USA 1300
143 Jean Robic, FRA 1300
144 Lucien Aimar, FRA 1300
145 Roger Walkowiak, FRA 1300
146 Hector Heusghem, BEL 1300
147 Davide Rebellin, ITA 1290
148 Johan Van de Velde, HOL 1290
149 Joaquim Agostinho, POR 1290
150 Jo De Roo, HOL 1290
151 Hippolyte Aucouturier, FRA 1250
152 Gustave Deloor, BEL 1250
153 Ercole Baldini, ITA 1240
154 Jean Stablinski, FRA 1210
155 Ivan Gotti, ITA 1200
156 Imerio Massignan, ITA 1200
157 Emilio Rodriguez, ESP 1200
158 Francesco Casagrande, ITA 1190
159 Piotr Ugrumov, LAT 1190
160 Andrei Tchmil, MOL 1180
161 Paul Egli, SWI 1170
162 Jean-Baptiste Dortignacq, FRA 1170
163 Pascal Richard, SWI 1160
164 Evgeni Berzin, RUS 1150
165 Dietrich Thurau, GER 1150
166 Maurizio Fondriest, ITA 1150
167 Jesus Lorono, ESP 1140
168 Jean Forestier, FRA 1140
169 Eric Vanderaerden, BEL 1130
170 Jean Brankart, BEL 1130
171 Gosta Pettersson, SWE 1120
172 Antonio Pesenti, ITA 1120
173 Augustin Tamames, ESP 1100
174 Luigi Ganna, ITA 1090
175 Alfons Schepers, BEL 1080
176 Erik Breukink, HOL 1060
177 Felix Sellier, BEL 1060
178 Olaf Ludwig, GER 1050
179 Emile Georget, FRA 1040
180 Giuseppe Olmo, ITA 1040
181 Jean Adriaenssens, BEL 1040
182 Antonio Suarez, ESP 1040
183 Rene Vietto, FRA 1040
184 Ferdinand Bracke, BEL 1020
185 Fernando Escartin, ESP 1020
186 Domingo Perurena, ESP 1020
187 Andy Hampsten, USA 1020
188 Gilbert Duclos-Lasalle, FRA 1020
189 Marcel Buysse, BEL 1010
190 Gustaf Danneels, BEL 1010
191 Marcel Janssens, BEL 1000
192 Delio Rodriguez, ESP 1000
193 Paul Maye, FRA 990
194 Leo Amberg, SWI 990
195 Charly Mottet, FRA 980
196 Cyrille Van Hauwaert, BEL 970
197 Julien Vervaecke, BEL 970
198 Domenico Piemontesi, ITA 950
199 Giuseppe Pancera, ITA 950
200 Charles Crupelandt, FRA 950
201 Jose Maria Jimenez, ESP 950
202 Emile Daems, BEL 950
203 Eddy Planckaert, BEL 940
204 Rolf Sorensen, DEN 930
205 Nino Defilippis, ITA 920
206 Pedro Torres, ESP 910
207 Pierre Brambilla, FRA 910
208 Raymond Martin, FRA 910
209 Oscar Camenzind, SWI 900
210 Johan De Muynck, BEL 900
211 Noel Fore, BEL 900
212 Rene Vermandel, BEL 900
213 Roberto Visentini, ITA 900
214 Joseph Planckaert, BEL 900
215 Stefano Garzelli, ITA 900
216 Mario Vicini, ITA 890
217 Andre Dierickx, BEL 880
218 Mauro Gianetti, SWI 880
219 Franco Ballerini, ITA 870
220 Eric Leman, BEL 870
221 Gerrie Knetemann, HOL 860
222 Miguel Maria Lasa, ESP 850
223 Rik Van Linden, BEL 850
224 Louis Mottiat, BEL 850
225 Damiano Cunego, ITA 850
226 Carlo Oriani, ITA 850
227 Giuseppe Enrici, ITA 840
228 Fausto Bertoglio, ITA 840
229 Luigi Marchisio, ITA 840
230 Franco Chioccioli, ITA 840
231 Carlo Clerici, SWI 830
232 Aldo Bini, ITA 820
233 Andres Oliva, ESP 810
234 Romain Gijssels, BEL 800
235 Francisco Galdos, ESP 790
236 Enrico Mollo, ITA 790
237 Michael Rasmussen, DEN 780
238 Jean Graczyck, FRA 780
239 Paul Deman, BEL 780
240 Raimondas Rumsas, LIT 770
241 Vito Favero, ITA 770
242 Lucien Pothier, FRA 770
243 Miguel Poblet, ESP 770
244 Fabio Parra, COL 770
245 Kurt Stoepel, GER 770
246 Aurelio Gonzalez, ESP 770
247 Alessandro Petacchi, ITA 760
248 Michele Dancelli, ITA 760
249 Theo Middelkamp, HOL 760
250 Urs Zimmermann, SWI 760
251 Angel Casero, ESP 750
252 Achiel Buysse, BEL 750
253 Leon Houa, BEL 750
254 Georges Pintens, BEL 750
255 Jose-Luis Laguia, ESP 750
256 Juan Fernandez, ESP 750
257 Jose Pesarrodona, ESP 750
258 Edwig Van Hooydonck, BEL 740
259 Marco Giovannetti, ITA 740
260 Erik Dekker, HOL 740
261 Benoni Beheyt, BEL 740
262 Angelo Conterno, ITA 730
263 Edouard Fachleitner, FRA 730
264 Thor Hushovd, NOR 730
265 Marc Madiot, FRA 720
266 Georges Claes, BEL 720
267 Giordano Cottur, ITA 720
268 Denis Verschueren, BEL 710
269 Raimund Dietzen, GER 700
270 Marino Basso, ITA 700
 

wolfix

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classic1 said:
Have a look at Andersons list of wins. He won everything Millar did (KOMs aside), plus a Tour de Suisse and a couple of classics.
Anderson did win 3 of the smaller Classics. Amstel Gold, Championship of Zurich,and Paris-Tours. He did not win one of the Classic Monuments. He never contested a GT. He was a very good rider, but not of the class of Millar and Simpson. Plus, he was an Aussie.
 

heinkel12

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wolfix said:
Anderson did win 3 of the smaller Classics. Amstel Gold, Championship of Zurich,and Paris-Tours. He did not win one of the Classic Monuments. He never contested a GT. He was a very good rider, but not of the class of Millar and Simpson. Plus, he was an Aussie.
You might have bought yourself an argument here my friend! Millar was a great rider but better than Anderson? I dunno........They were very different types and it is really hard to match them head to head. Anderson was perhaps more of a Simpson type, could win just about anywhere but was found wanting in the really high mountains. But he won plenty of quality races elsewhere. Tour de Suisse and Dauphine Libere in the same year if I remember rightly. Tour of Romandie a couple of times and plenty of lesser tours.
Ran second in a couple of Tours of Flanders, once after helping Vandearden to victory and a 3rd in Liege-Bastogne-Liege.
As for not finishing on GT podiums, well Millar achieved this in the Vuelta and Giro. As far as I know Anderson never rode the Vuelta and was past his best as a GT rider by the time he went to the Giro so it's a moot point.
And as for being an Aussie......well that's just another of the lucky breaks he got!:p
 

wolfix

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heinkel12 said:
You might have bought yourself an argument here my friend! Millar was a great rider but better than Anderson? I dunno........They were very different types and it is really hard to match them head to head. Anderson was perhaps more of a Simpson type, could win just about anywhere but was found wanting in the really high mountains. But he won plenty of quality races elsewhere. Tour de Suisse and Dauphine Libere in the same year if I remember rightly. Tour of Romandie a couple of times and plenty of lesser tours.
Ran second in a couple of Tours of Flanders, once after helping Vandearden to victory and a 3rd in Liege-Bastogne-Liege.
As for not finishing on GT podiums, well Millar achieved this in the Vuelta and Giro. As far as I know Anderson never rode the Vuelta and was past his best as a GT rider by the time he went to the Giro so it's a moot point.
And as for being an Aussie......well that's just another of the lucky breaks he got!:p
What I meant by the Aussie remark was that the argument was about being the greatest British rider. Would we consider Anderson British? And Anderson was a great rider.
I have always felt that the better riders could win GT's. And my argument is this...... A GT rider can win Classics, but not all Classic riders can win GT's. You have to be multi -talented to win a GT. There have been many Classic riders that are one dimensional. Museeuw,S Kelly,Boonen, and Cipo come to mind. Maybe one dimensional is not the correct terminology, these are great riders that were unable to win a GT. And yet I can't think of a GT winner that would not be able to win a Classic if they concentrated on it. To me a GT is multiple Classics in a row. A stage win is as good as a Classic.
As a fan I prefer Classics, as I hate any race that a winner could be determined by a TT.
 

classic1

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wolfix said:
Anderson did win 3 of the smaller Classics. Amstel Gold, Championship of Zurich,and Paris-Tours. He did not win one of the Classic Monuments. He never contested a GT. He was a very good rider, but not of the class of Millar and Simpson. Plus, he was an Aussie.
Anderson had four top 10's (inc a pair of fifth places) in the Tour. He also won GP Frankfurt twice (it was a prestigious Super Presitge Pernod race in the 80's and craps all over Hamburg for history, course and excitment)

As I said, Anderson won everything Millar did (KOMs aside), plus a Tour de Suisse and a couple of classics.

BTW, any list that has the likes of farkin Raimund Dietzen ahead of Phil Anderson is seriously flawed.:p
 

Eagle of Toledo

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wolfix said:
...S Kelly... come to mind...these are great riders that were unable to win a GT

Kelly won a GT - the Vuelta.

Personally I think GT's are almost a totally different sport to one-day races and the last week is very telling.

On the other hand there have been some very good riders (Bettini comes to mind) that will never win a GT.
 

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