In the Bible, does Jesus say abortion is wrong?

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by United we Stand, Feb 22, 2005.

  1. Believe it or not back street aborstions did not exist in 25AD; i don't
    think coathangers did either.....
     


  2. On 23 Feb 2005 04:49:04 -0800, [email protected] wrote:

    >Believe it or not back street aborstions did not exist in 25AD; i don't
    >think coathangers did either.....


    Coathangers did exist, as people did have coats and did have a need to
    hang them up. 'back street aborstions' in the meaning of illegal
    abortions did not exist because abortion was not illegal. Legal
    abortions did exist, were common knowledge, and Jesus said nothing
    against them.

    He did speak toward the anti-abortionists of today -- judge not, don't
    lie, etc...
     
  3. dgk

    dgk Guest

    On 22 Feb 2005 14:49:55 -0800, "Old Wolf" <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >doktorf wrote:
    >> I don't think Jesus himself ever makes any reference to it.
    >> In the old testement, God hands Moses a rule book that commands

    >that
    >> humans "not kill" and Jesus being a follower of Moses probably
    >> subscribed to that notion. "Not kill" is generally interpreted as

    >"not
    >> commit murder".
    >>
    >> Now, I don't want to be accused by a theist of putting
    >> words in the mouth of the almighty, so I will try not to attach false
    >> interpretations to it. The commandment simply says "thou shalt not
    >> kill." That's as simple as it gets. It coveres everything right

    >there.
    >
    >In today's bible, which has been translated umpteen times. Even if
    >we had the original tablets God handed Moses, I doubt we will ever
    >know the exact connotations of what is written on them.
    >
    >In conclusion -- it's all propaganda really, we cannot know if the
    >commandment was "don't murder", or "don't kill", or anything else.


    Isn't it amazing that tablets from God weren't important enough to
    actually save? Not only that, they apparently weren't made of anything
    stronger than plasterboard. Gee, I would think God could have put the
    rules on something a bit more lasting. Imperfect design, I guess.
     
  4. "Ron Wallenfang" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > No. He doesn't mention the subject. The earliest explicit Christian
    > condemnation of abortion, so far as I know, is in the Didache, in the

    early
    > 2nd century.


    Except that, under "UWS's" very narrow question, Jesus didn't say it, and it
    wasn't in the Christian Bible. Hosea mentions the concept, but, according to
    the moron known as "UWS," that's not the Christian Bible.

    --
    -Donald in Austin
    AA #2104
    Apatriot #22
    Atheist FF/EMT
    .....and ordained minister
    Stork pin recipient: May 1, 2003 -Madelyn
     
  5. junegill

    junegill Guest

  6. Cartlon Shew

    Cartlon Shew Guest

    On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 17:20:55 -0600, duke <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 12:13:25 GMT, "SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim"
    ><[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>If we believe you religious fruitcakes, then abortion is MURDER, which means
    >>it must be allright, because the bible is the word of the WORST MASS
    >>MURDERER of all time, god.

    >
    >Of course not. God doesn't pull the trigger, man does.
    >



    Except for that time when he wiped out EVERYONE on the planet except
    for 1 family

    >
    >duke
    >*****
    >Matthew 22
    >14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."


    "Many are cold, but few are frozen." -

    >*****
     
  7. doktorf

    doktorf Guest

    According to the holy book of the Jewish people, they *were* saved in
    the ark of the covenant that was kept in the sanctuary of the temple of
    Solomon. When the temple was destroyed, legend says the ark ant the
    tablets were lost.
     
  8. United we Stand wrote:

    > In the Bible, does Jesus say abortion is wrong?


    Nowhere in the Bible does it say that abortion is wrong, except in so
    far as it is a property crime against the woman's husband.

    The people who say that the Bible states that it is murder are simply
    lying.
     
  9. duke

    duke Guest

    On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 13:36:52 -0700, Cartlon Shew <[email protected]> wrote:

    >>Of course not. God doesn't pull the trigger, man does.

    >Except for that time when he wiped out EVERYONE on the planet except
    >for 1 family


    God shot everyone?

    Well, if you read the bible, everyone but that 1 family was evil. And evil will
    not succeed.

    duke
    *****
    Matthew 22
    14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
    *****
     
  10. duke

    duke Guest

    On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 17:50:43 +0000 (UTC), "junegill" <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >> >So when you force an unwilling woman to go through the agony of

    >childbirth,
    >> >you're forcing Jesus to go through that agony too?

    >> That was, and still is, a woman's choice.

    >It's a choice which you wish to remove though, isn't it?


    I have no idea what your question is.

    duke
    *****
    Matthew 22
    14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
    *****
     
  11. junegill

    junegill Guest

    "duke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 17:50:43 +0000 (UTC), "junegill"

    <[email protected]>
    > wrote:
    >
    > >> >So when you force an unwilling woman to go through the agony of

    > >childbirth,
    > >> >you're forcing Jesus to go through that agony too?
    > >> That was, and still is, a woman's choice.

    > >It's a choice which you wish to remove though, isn't it?

    >
    > I have no idea what your question is.


    Sorry that it wasn't clear enough; I'll try again. I think that you wish to
    outlaw abortion, thereby removing the pregnant woman's choice of avoiding
    the agony of childbirth, should she not wish to carry to term: is that so?

    --
    June G
    # 364
    http://uk.geocities.com/[email protected]/webpages/index.html.html
     
  12. S o r n i

    S o r n i Guest

    It's not listed in the index of "The Bicycle Wheel".

    Bill "hey look, I remembered to trim cross-posted groups!" S.
     
  13. In article <[email protected]>, duckgumbo32
    @cox.net says...
    > On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 12:13:25 GMT, "SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >If we believe you religious fruitcakes, then abortion is MURDER, which means
    > >it must be allright, because the bible is the word of the WORST MASS
    > >MURDERER of all time, god.

    >
    > Of course not. God doesn't pull the trigger, man does.
    >


    Who, or what, 'pulls the trigger' that kills off (causes to be flushed
    out) the vast majority (about three quarters IIRC) of fertilised human
    ova before they even implant themselves in the woman's tissues? It's not
    an active attempt by the woman (she normally doesn't even know there
    *is* a fertilised ovum at that point). Ditto for the man. So who or what
    does that 'discard and destroy' of the blastocysts/embryos?
     
  14. In article <[email protected]egroups.com>,
    [email protected] says...
    > Believe it or not back street aborstions did not exist in 25AD; i don't
    > think coathangers did either.....
    >
    >

    What makes you think that?

    Abortion (induced) was certainly well known centuries before that time -
    usually performed by the woman ingesting herbs or other plants that
    caused the pregnancy to miscarry, sometimes accidentally ingested by the
    woman with the same effect.

    Surely you don't think abortion is a modern invention just because it
    can now be performed much like any other minor medical/surgical
    treatment with little or no harm to the woman! The techniques have
    become safe (except for rare exceptions) for the woman over time, but
    one or more techniques have been in use for thousands of years despite a
    lack of modern medicine/technology.

    See here for some more information:

    http://www.atlanta-mfm.com/clindisc/vol1no3.html
     
  15. Cartlon Shew

    Cartlon Shew Guest

    On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 17:16:17 -0600, duke <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 13:36:52 -0700, Cartlon Shew <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>>Of course not. God doesn't pull the trigger, man does.

    >>Except for that time when he wiped out EVERYONE on the planet except
    >>for 1 family

    >
    >God shot everyone?
    >


    Sorry - "pull the trigger" was someone elses metaphor for causing
    death.

    It's a pretty simple concept actually - Didn't you take Engrish in
    school?

    >Well, if you read the bible, everyone but that 1 family was evil. And evil will
    >not succeed.


    So how come there's so much evil in the world today?

    Or am I mistaken and there isn't as much evil as I think there is?

    >
    >duke
    >*****
    >Matthew 22
    >14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
    >*****
     
  16. duke

    duke Guest

    On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 15:17:54 -0700, Cartlon Shew <[email protected]> wrote:

    >>God shot everyone?

    >Sorry - "pull the trigger" was someone elses metaphor for causing
    >death.


    >It's a pretty simple concept actually - Didn't you take Engrish in
    >school?


    Nope, I didn't take Engrish (sic) in school. Did you?

    >>Well, if you read the bible, everyone but that 1 family was evil. And evil will
    >>not succeed.

    >So how come there's so much evil in the world today?


    Because there was more people after the one and only good family, and they were
    the source of evil all over again.

    >Or am I mistaken and there isn't as much evil as I think there is?


    You're mistaken.


    duke
    *****
    Matthew 22
    14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
    *****
     
  17. duke

    duke Guest

    On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 07:23:40 -0000, Pat Winstanley <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >> Of course not. God doesn't pull the trigger, man does.


    >Who, or what, 'pulls the trigger' that kills off (causes to be flushed
    >out) the vast majority (about three quarters IIRC) of fertilised human
    >ova before they even implant themselves in the woman's tissues?


    Mankind in his failure to be as God.

    > It's not
    >an active attempt by the woman (she normally doesn't even know there
    >*is* a fertilised ovum at that point). Ditto for the man. So who or what
    >does that 'discard and destroy' of the blastocysts/embryos?


    It's a result of sin.


    duke
    *****
    Matthew 22
    14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
    *****
     
  18. duke

    duke Guest

    On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 01:35:03 +0000 (UTC), "junegill" <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >Sorry that it wasn't clear enough; I'll try again. I think that you wish to
    >outlaw abortion, thereby removing the pregnant woman's choice of avoiding
    >the agony of childbirth, should she not wish to carry to term: is that so?


    Of course not. Abortion is the ultimate act of selfishness, an act so
    horrendous that a woman would actually butcher her own unborn for her own
    comfort and convenience.

    duke
    *****
    Matthew 22
    14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
    *****
     
  19. junegill

    junegill Guest

    "duke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 01:35:03 +0000 (UTC), "junegill"

    <[email protected]>
    > wrote:
    >
    > >Sorry that it wasn't clear enough; I'll try again. I think that you wish

    to
    > >outlaw abortion, thereby removing the pregnant woman's choice of avoiding
    > >the agony of childbirth, should she not wish to carry to term: is that

    so?
    >
    > Of course not.


    I think you mean 'of course', but whatever. So, going back to your original
    statement about whatever you do to anyone you do to Jesus, that means that
    you would force Jesus to suffer that agony. I wonder what He would think of
    your attitude.

    > Abortion is the ultimate act of selfishness,


    Oh, you've got to love it - yet another man, smug in the knowledge that he
    will never have to go through pregnancy and childbirth himself,
    pontificating about what those who do have to suffer it should do. You have
    no idea whether the motivation of a woman who aborts is selfish or not - it
    can be the very opposite.

    an act so
    > horrendous that a woman would actually butcher her own unborn for her own
    > comfort and convenience.


    And your God 'butchers' about 60% of all conceptions, so it's pretty clear
    that He doesn't regard them very highly.

    --
    June G
    # 364
    http://uk.geocities.com/[email protected]/webpages/index.html.html
     
  20. junegill wrote:

    > So, going back to your original
    > statement about whatever you do to anyone you do to Jesus, that means that
    > you would force Jesus to suffer that agony.


    If the Bible says anything like that, it's just an allegory. Jesus is,
    according to the Bible, a God. He's very powerful, and doesn't really give
    a damn. That is not to say that he can do anything, of course. Homer J.
    Simpson already refuted such faulty thinking when he asked "Can God cook a
    buritto so hot that he himself could not eat it?".
     
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