In the Bible, does Jesus say abortion is wrong?



On 23 Feb 2005 04:49:04 -0800, [email protected] wrote:

>Believe it or not back street aborstions did not exist in 25AD; i don't
>think coathangers did either.....


Coathangers did exist, as people did have coats and did have a need to
hang them up. 'back street aborstions' in the meaning of illegal
abortions did not exist because abortion was not illegal. Legal
abortions did exist, were common knowledge, and Jesus said nothing
against them.

He did speak toward the anti-abortionists of today -- judge not, don't
lie, etc...
 
On 22 Feb 2005 14:49:55 -0800, "Old Wolf" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>doktorf wrote:
>> I don't think Jesus himself ever makes any reference to it.
>> In the old testement, God hands Moses a rule book that commands

>that
>> humans "not kill" and Jesus being a follower of Moses probably
>> subscribed to that notion. "Not kill" is generally interpreted as

>"not
>> commit murder".
>>
>> Now, I don't want to be accused by a theist of putting
>> words in the mouth of the almighty, so I will try not to attach false
>> interpretations to it. The commandment simply says "thou shalt not
>> kill." That's as simple as it gets. It coveres everything right

>there.
>
>In today's bible, which has been translated umpteen times. Even if
>we had the original tablets God handed Moses, I doubt we will ever
>know the exact connotations of what is written on them.
>
>In conclusion -- it's all propaganda really, we cannot know if the
>commandment was "don't murder", or "don't kill", or anything else.


Isn't it amazing that tablets from God weren't important enough to
actually save? Not only that, they apparently weren't made of anything
stronger than plasterboard. Gee, I would think God could have put the
rules on something a bit more lasting. Imperfect design, I guess.
 
"Ron Wallenfang" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> No. He doesn't mention the subject. The earliest explicit Christian
> condemnation of abortion, so far as I know, is in the Didache, in the

early
> 2nd century.


Except that, under "UWS's" very narrow question, Jesus didn't say it, and it
wasn't in the Christian Bible. Hosea mentions the concept, but, according to
the moron known as "UWS," that's not the Christian Bible.

--
-Donald in Austin
AA #2104
Apatriot #22
Atheist FF/EMT
.....and ordained minister
Stork pin recipient: May 1, 2003 -Madelyn
 
On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 17:20:55 -0600, duke <[email protected]> wrote:

>On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 12:13:25 GMT, "SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>If we believe you religious fruitcakes, then abortion is MURDER, which means
>>it must be allright, because the bible is the word of the WORST MASS
>>MURDERER of all time, god.

>
>Of course not. God doesn't pull the trigger, man does.
>



Except for that time when he wiped out EVERYONE on the planet except
for 1 family

>
>duke
>*****
>Matthew 22
>14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."


"Many are cold, but few are frozen." -

>*****
 
According to the holy book of the Jewish people, they *were* saved in
the ark of the covenant that was kept in the sanctuary of the temple of
Solomon. When the temple was destroyed, legend says the ark ant the
tablets were lost.
 
United we Stand wrote:

> In the Bible, does Jesus say abortion is wrong?


Nowhere in the Bible does it say that abortion is wrong, except in so
far as it is a property crime against the woman's husband.

The people who say that the Bible states that it is murder are simply
lying.
 
On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 13:36:52 -0700, Cartlon Shew <[email protected]> wrote:

>>Of course not. God doesn't pull the trigger, man does.

>Except for that time when he wiped out EVERYONE on the planet except
>for 1 family


God shot everyone?

Well, if you read the bible, everyone but that 1 family was evil. And evil will
not succeed.

duke
*****
Matthew 22
14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
*****
 
On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 17:50:43 +0000 (UTC), "junegill" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>> >So when you force an unwilling woman to go through the agony of

>childbirth,
>> >you're forcing Jesus to go through that agony too?

>> That was, and still is, a woman's choice.

>It's a choice which you wish to remove though, isn't it?


I have no idea what your question is.

duke
*****
Matthew 22
14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
*****
 
"duke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 17:50:43 +0000 (UTC), "junegill"

<[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >> >So when you force an unwilling woman to go through the agony of

> >childbirth,
> >> >you're forcing Jesus to go through that agony too?
> >> That was, and still is, a woman's choice.

> >It's a choice which you wish to remove though, isn't it?

>
> I have no idea what your question is.


Sorry that it wasn't clear enough; I'll try again. I think that you wish to
outlaw abortion, thereby removing the pregnant woman's choice of avoiding
the agony of childbirth, should she not wish to carry to term: is that so?

--
June G
# 364
http://uk.geocities.com/[email protected]/webpages/index.html.html
 
It's not listed in the index of "The Bicycle Wheel".

Bill "hey look, I remembered to trim cross-posted groups!" S.
 
In article <[email protected]>, duckgumbo32
@cox.net says...
> On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 12:13:25 GMT, "SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >If we believe you religious fruitcakes, then abortion is MURDER, which means
> >it must be allright, because the bible is the word of the WORST MASS
> >MURDERER of all time, god.

>
> Of course not. God doesn't pull the trigger, man does.
>


Who, or what, 'pulls the trigger' that kills off (causes to be flushed
out) the vast majority (about three quarters IIRC) of fertilised human
ova before they even implant themselves in the woman's tissues? It's not
an active attempt by the woman (she normally doesn't even know there
*is* a fertilised ovum at that point). Ditto for the man. So who or what
does that 'discard and destroy' of the blastocysts/embryos?
 
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> Believe it or not back street aborstions did not exist in 25AD; i don't
> think coathangers did either.....
>
>

What makes you think that?

Abortion (induced) was certainly well known centuries before that time -
usually performed by the woman ingesting herbs or other plants that
caused the pregnancy to miscarry, sometimes accidentally ingested by the
woman with the same effect.

Surely you don't think abortion is a modern invention just because it
can now be performed much like any other minor medical/surgical
treatment with little or no harm to the woman! The techniques have
become safe (except for rare exceptions) for the woman over time, but
one or more techniques have been in use for thousands of years despite a
lack of modern medicine/technology.

See here for some more information:

http://www.atlanta-mfm.com/clindisc/vol1no3.html
 
On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 17:16:17 -0600, duke <[email protected]> wrote:

>On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 13:36:52 -0700, Cartlon Shew <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>>Of course not. God doesn't pull the trigger, man does.

>>Except for that time when he wiped out EVERYONE on the planet except
>>for 1 family

>
>God shot everyone?
>


Sorry - "pull the trigger" was someone elses metaphor for causing
death.

It's a pretty simple concept actually - Didn't you take Engrish in
school?

>Well, if you read the bible, everyone but that 1 family was evil. And evil will
>not succeed.


So how come there's so much evil in the world today?

Or am I mistaken and there isn't as much evil as I think there is?

>
>duke
>*****
>Matthew 22
>14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
>*****
 
On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 15:17:54 -0700, Cartlon Shew <[email protected]> wrote:

>>God shot everyone?

>Sorry - "pull the trigger" was someone elses metaphor for causing
>death.


>It's a pretty simple concept actually - Didn't you take Engrish in
>school?


Nope, I didn't take Engrish (sic) in school. Did you?

>>Well, if you read the bible, everyone but that 1 family was evil. And evil will
>>not succeed.

>So how come there's so much evil in the world today?


Because there was more people after the one and only good family, and they were
the source of evil all over again.

>Or am I mistaken and there isn't as much evil as I think there is?


You're mistaken.


duke
*****
Matthew 22
14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
*****
 
On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 07:23:40 -0000, Pat Winstanley <[email protected]>
wrote:

>> Of course not. God doesn't pull the trigger, man does.


>Who, or what, 'pulls the trigger' that kills off (causes to be flushed
>out) the vast majority (about three quarters IIRC) of fertilised human
>ova before they even implant themselves in the woman's tissues?


Mankind in his failure to be as God.

> It's not
>an active attempt by the woman (she normally doesn't even know there
>*is* a fertilised ovum at that point). Ditto for the man. So who or what
>does that 'discard and destroy' of the blastocysts/embryos?


It's a result of sin.


duke
*****
Matthew 22
14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
*****
 
On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 01:35:03 +0000 (UTC), "junegill" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Sorry that it wasn't clear enough; I'll try again. I think that you wish to
>outlaw abortion, thereby removing the pregnant woman's choice of avoiding
>the agony of childbirth, should she not wish to carry to term: is that so?


Of course not. Abortion is the ultimate act of selfishness, an act so
horrendous that a woman would actually butcher her own unborn for her own
comfort and convenience.

duke
*****
Matthew 22
14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
*****
 
"duke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 01:35:03 +0000 (UTC), "junegill"

<[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >Sorry that it wasn't clear enough; I'll try again. I think that you wish

to
> >outlaw abortion, thereby removing the pregnant woman's choice of avoiding
> >the agony of childbirth, should she not wish to carry to term: is that

so?
>
> Of course not.


I think you mean 'of course', but whatever. So, going back to your original
statement about whatever you do to anyone you do to Jesus, that means that
you would force Jesus to suffer that agony. I wonder what He would think of
your attitude.

> Abortion is the ultimate act of selfishness,


Oh, you've got to love it - yet another man, smug in the knowledge that he
will never have to go through pregnancy and childbirth himself,
pontificating about what those who do have to suffer it should do. You have
no idea whether the motivation of a woman who aborts is selfish or not - it
can be the very opposite.

an act so
> horrendous that a woman would actually butcher her own unborn for her own
> comfort and convenience.


And your God 'butchers' about 60% of all conceptions, so it's pretty clear
that He doesn't regard them very highly.

--
June G
# 364
http://uk.geocities.com/[email protected]/webpages/index.html.html
 
junegill wrote:

> So, going back to your original
> statement about whatever you do to anyone you do to Jesus, that means that
> you would force Jesus to suffer that agony.


If the Bible says anything like that, it's just an allegory. Jesus is,
according to the Bible, a God. He's very powerful, and doesn't really give
a damn. That is not to say that he can do anything, of course. Homer J.
Simpson already refuted such faulty thinking when he asked "Can God cook a
buritto so hot that he himself could not eat it?".