In the Bible, does Jesus say abortion is wrong?

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by United we Stand, Feb 22, 2005.

  1. junegill

    junegill Guest

    "Universal Soldier" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > junegill wrote:
    >
    > > So, going back to your original
    > > statement about whatever you do to anyone you do to Jesus, that means

    that
    > > you would force Jesus to suffer that agony.

    >
    > If the Bible says anything like that, it's just an allegory.


    Indeed, it must be. I think 'duke' was referring to the passage in Matthew
    25:31-46 in an attempt to show that Jesus had said that abortion is wrong,
    implying that anyone who aborts, ie kills an embryo/foetus is also killing
    Jesus. To me that would say that Jesus would feel only what an
    embryo/foetus feels - nothing, whereas to force a sentient being to go
    through unspeakable agony giving birth would inflict that agony on Jesus
    too.

    > according to the Bible, a God. He's very powerful, and doesn't really give
    > a damn. That is not to say that he can do anything, of course. Homer J.
    > Simpson already refuted such faulty thinking when he asked "Can God cook a
    > buritto so hot that he himself could not eat it?".


    Nice twist on the creating of a rock too heavy to lift. I just wonder
    whether God can prove His existence.

    --
    June G
    # 364
    http://uk.geocities.com/[email protected]/webpages/index.html.html
     


  2. In article <[email protected]>, duckgumbo32
    @cox.net says...
    > >> Of course not. God doesn't pull the trigger, man does.

    >
    > >Who, or what, 'pulls the trigger' that kills off (causes to be flushed
    > >out) the vast majority (about three quarters IIRC) of fertilised human
    > >ova before they even implant themselves in the woman's tissues?

    >
    > Mankind in his failure to be as God.
    >


    ROFLROFLROFL!!!!!

    You've lost it, mate! ;-))
     
  3. Cartlon Shew

    Cartlon Shew Guest

    On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 17:45:01 -0600, duke <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 15:17:54 -0700, Cartlon Shew <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>>God shot everyone?

    >>Sorry - "pull the trigger" was someone elses metaphor for causing
    >>death.

    >
    >>It's a pretty simple concept actually - Didn't you take Engrish in
    >>school?

    >
    >Nope, I didn't take Engrish (sic) in school. Did you?



    The subtlety was lost on you, ain't it

    >
    >>>Well, if you read the bible, everyone but that 1 family was evil. And evil will
    >>>not succeed.

    >>So how come there's so much evil in the world today?

    >
    >Because there was more people


    I guess you didn't take Engrish after all. Learn it from the telly,
    did you?

    >after the one and only good family, and they were
    >the source of evil all over again.
    >
    >>Or am I mistaken and there isn't as much evil as I think there is?

    >
    >You're mistaken.


    So is there evil in the world or is there not evil in the world?

    Make up your mind - or get your preacher to do it for you.


    >
    >
    >duke
    >*****
    >Matthew 22
    >14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
    >*****
     
  4. duke

    duke Guest

    On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 04:20:49 +0000 (UTC), "junegill" <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >> >Sorry that it wasn't clear enough; I'll try again. I think that you wish

    >to
    >> >outlaw abortion, thereby removing the pregnant woman's choice of avoiding
    >> >the agony of childbirth, should she not wish to carry to term: is that

    >so?


    >> Of course not.


    >I think you mean 'of course', but whatever.


    Nope. My ultimate wish to end all abortion is based on it being the ultimate
    act of selfishness. It has nothing to do with anyone's wish to avoid childbirth
    agony. That comes with the territory of sin.

    > So, going back to your original
    >statement about whatever you do to anyone you do to Jesus, that means that
    >you would force Jesus to suffer that agony. I wonder what He would think of
    >your attitude.


    It's not a matter of my attitude. It's his words. Mathew 25:31-46

    >> Abortion is the ultimate act of selfishness,


    >Oh, you've got to love it - yet another man, smug in the knowledge that he
    >will never have to go through pregnancy and childbirth himself,
    >pontificating about what those who do have to suffer it should do.


    Oh, you've got to love it - yet another woman crying like a baby that if you say
    no to a woman, you hate all women.

    > You have
    >no idea whether the motivation of a woman who aborts is selfish or not - it
    >can be the very opposite.


    Not when you consider you're butchering your own unborn for your comfort and
    convenience.

    >an act so
    >> horrendous that a woman would actually butcher her own unborn for her own
    >> comfort and convenience.


    >And your God 'butchers' about 60% of all conceptions, so it's pretty clear
    >that He doesn't regard them very highly.


    No he doesn't. Eve sinned, and got mankind kicked out of the garden to be her
    own god as best she could and to suffer the pain of childbirth. It's biblical,
    check it out in Genesis.

    duke
    *****
    Matthew 22
    14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
    *****
     
  5. Cartlon Shew

    Cartlon Shew Guest

    On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 13:44:06 -0600, duke <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 09:30:14 -0700, Cartlon Shew <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>>>>God shot everyone?
    >>>>Sorry - "pull the trigger" was someone elses metaphor for causing
    >>>>death.
    >>>>It's a pretty simple concept actually - Didn't you take Engrish in
    >>>>school?
    >>>Nope, I didn't take Engrish (sic) in school. Did you?

    >>The subtlety was lost on you, ain't it

    >
    >That you don't know now to spell "English"? Nope.
    >
    >>>>>Well, if you read the bible, everyone but that 1 family was evil. And evil will
    >>>>>not succeed.
    >>>>So how come there's so much evil in the world today?
    >>>Because there was more people

    >
    >>I guess you didn't take Engrish after all. Learn it from the telly,
    >>did you?

    >
    >No, I didn't take Engrish (sic) at all. I told you that.
    >
    >>>after the one and only good family, and they were
    >>>the source of evil all over again.
    >>>>Or am I mistaken and there isn't as much evil as I think there is?
    >>>You're mistaken.

    >>So is there evil in the world or is there not evil in the world?

    >
    >Oh, there's plenty of evil in the world. If God elected to have another flood,
    >which he said he wouldn't, many, many of the current world population is booked
    >to go.
    >
    >>Make up your mind - or get your preacher to do it for you.

    >
    >Are you packed?
    >


    Why should I be? If your God is real, he won't kill everyone* with
    another flood. If He's not real, I don't really have to worry about
    it, now do I?

    Salvation, as espoused by some Xian sects works pretty much the same
    way. Accept JC as your savior, and you're in! That cannot be taken
    away. You are now free to move about the country - and sin.




    * - okay, nearly everyone
     
  6. Maggie

    Maggie Guest

    Paul Anderson wrote:
    > On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 13:54:01 -0600, duke <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > ...
    >
    > >Nope. My ultimate wish to end all abortion is based on it being the

    ultimate
    > >act of selfishness. It has nothing to do with anyone's wish to

    avoid childbirth
    > >agony. That comes with the territory of sin.

    > ....
    >
    > And *again* we see the standard Pro-Life line that the agnoy of
    > childbirth is the price women are expected to pay for the sin having
    > sex.



    THE AGONY OF CHILDBIRTH??? We pay for sex with agony of childbirth?
    OK, how did I manage to live this long without realizing my sex life is
    related to the agony of childbirth? Now if you never had children, does
    that mean you can't have sex? Or do you play now and pay later? Now
    wasn't a man's payment...to toil in the fields. Meaning work for a
    living. OK...so women are now working for a living and also bringing
    forth children through agony. (Not that I remember any agony with any
    of the births) Some pain maybe, but agony? What the hell does this
    thread have to do with Bicycles? Are bicycles a part of the moral
    majority and the right wing radicals? Can't be.
    All Good Things,
    Maggie,
    KEEP YOUR LAWS OFF MY BODY!!!!!
     
  7. Maggie

    Maggie Guest

    S o r n i wrote:
    > It's not listed in the index of "The Bicycle Wheel".
    >
    > Bill "hey look, I remembered to trim cross-posted groups!" S.



    Maybe someday people will accept us for who we are Bill. Cross posting
    lunatics who type too much.
    Maggie (Understands Bill)
     
  8. A rock too heavy to lift is nothing. There's no such thing. God cannot
    make "nothing"; the very idea implies a contradiction. It's like a square
    circle. God can't make one of those either.

    Now a bicycle too heavy to lift...........



    "junegill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > "Universal Soldier" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >> junegill wrote:
    >>
    >> > So, going back to your original
    >> > statement about whatever you do to anyone you do to Jesus, that means

    > that
    >> > you would force Jesus to suffer that agony.

    >>
    >> If the Bible says anything like that, it's just an allegory.

    >
    > Indeed, it must be. I think 'duke' was referring to the passage in
    > Matthew
    > 25:31-46 in an attempt to show that Jesus had said that abortion is wrong,
    > implying that anyone who aborts, ie kills an embryo/foetus is also killing
    > Jesus. To me that would say that Jesus would feel only what an
    > embryo/foetus feels - nothing, whereas to force a sentient being to go
    > through unspeakable agony giving birth would inflict that agony on Jesus
    > too.
    >
    >> according to the Bible, a God. He's very powerful, and doesn't really
    >> give
    >> a damn. That is not to say that he can do anything, of course. Homer J.
    >> Simpson already refuted such faulty thinking when he asked "Can God cook
    >> a
    >> buritto so hot that he himself could not eat it?".

    >
    > Nice twist on the creating of a rock too heavy to lift. I just wonder
    > whether God can prove His existence.
    >
    > --
    > June G
    > # 364
    > http://uk.geocities.com/[email protected]/webpages/index.html.html
    >
    >
     
  9. Cartlon Shew wrote:
    > On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 17:20:55 -0600, duke <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 12:13:25 GMT, "SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim"
    > ><[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > >>If we believe you religious fruitcakes, then abortion is MURDER,

    which means
    > >>it must be allright, because the bible is the word of the WORST

    MASS
    > >>MURDERER of all time, god.

    > >
    > >Of course not. God doesn't pull the trigger, man does.
    > >

    >
    >
    > Except for that time when he wiped out EVERYONE on the planet except
    > for 1 family


    That wasn't god. It was the annunaki.
     
  10. Peter

    Peter Guest

    United we Stand <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > In the Bible, does Jesus say abortion is wrong?


    Ex. 20:13 "You shall not kill."! You are talking about human fetuses
    aren't you, and what would this fetus become if not a human in the
    image of God? This word kill in this application is recognized as
    "MURDER". The ten commandments were given by Christ in the form of the
    God of the Old Testament, see John 1 to varify this

    Peter
     
  11. Somewriter

    Somewriter Guest

    On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 17:20:06 -0600, duke <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 03:48:06 -0800, United we Stand <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>In the Bible, does Jesus say abortion is wrong?

    >
    >Yep - He said when you do to the least of mine, you do to me.


    Then you're devistating Jesus when you force women to endure agonizing
    childbirth, or when you subject an abandoned baby to a life of
    instability, fiscal paucity and rejection, or when you command that
    everybody follow your shit's worth of morality.
     
  12. junegill

    junegill Guest

    "Ron Wallenfang" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > A rock too heavy to lift is nothing. There's no such thing. God cannot
    > make "nothing"; the very idea implies a contradiction. It's like a

    square
    > circle. God can't make one of those either.
    >
    > Now a bicycle too heavy to lift...........


    :) Omnipotence may not include literary conundra, but proving one's
    existence doesn't fall into that class.

    > "junegill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > >
    > > "Universal Soldier" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]
    > >> junegill wrote:
    > >>
    > >> > So, going back to your original
    > >> > statement about whatever you do to anyone you do to Jesus, that means

    > > that
    > >> > you would force Jesus to suffer that agony.
    > >>
    > >> If the Bible says anything like that, it's just an allegory.

    > >
    > > Indeed, it must be. I think 'duke' was referring to the passage in
    > > Matthew
    > > 25:31-46 in an attempt to show that Jesus had said that abortion is

    wrong,
    > > implying that anyone who aborts, ie kills an embryo/foetus is also

    killing
    > > Jesus. To me that would say that Jesus would feel only what an
    > > embryo/foetus feels - nothing, whereas to force a sentient being to go
    > > through unspeakable agony giving birth would inflict that agony on Jesus
    > > too.
    > >
    > >> according to the Bible, a God. He's very powerful, and doesn't really
    > >> give
    > >> a damn. That is not to say that he can do anything, of course. Homer J.
    > >> Simpson already refuted such faulty thinking when he asked "Can God

    cook
    > >> a
    > >> buritto so hot that he himself could not eat it?".

    > >
    > > Nice twist on the creating of a rock too heavy to lift. I just wonder
    > > whether God can prove His existence.



    --
    June G
    # 364
    http://uk.geocities.com/[email protected]/webpages/index.html.html
     
  13. Ray Fischer

    Ray Fischer Guest

    Peter <[email protected]> wrote:
    >United we Stand <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    >> In the Bible, does Jesus say abortion is wrong?

    >
    >Ex. 20:13 "You shall not kill."!


    1) That's not Jesus
    2) Then why do you kill plants, insects, and animals?

    > You are talking about human fetuses
    >aren't you, and what would this fetus become if not a human in the
    >image of God?


    So killing sperm is murder?

    > This word kill in this application is recognized as
    >"MURDER".


    And abortion isn't murder.

    > The ten commandments were given by Christ in the form of the
    >God of the Old Testament, see John 1 to varify this


    --
    Ray Fischer
    [email protected]
     
  14. duke

    duke Guest

    On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 15:55:18 -0700, Cartlon Shew <[email protected]> wrote:

    >>Are you packed?


    >Why should I be? If your God is real, he won't kill everyone* with
    >another flood. If He's not real, I don't really have to worry about
    >it, now do I?


    Oh, God is real alright. He said no more floods, but that's the OT concept of
    physical death for the evil in the world.

    Now it's the NT spiritual death, or spending an eternity in hell for what you
    did in this lifetime. Use it wisely. God is waiting on you to wise up and
    change your ways. And that's not a threat - it's a promise.

    >Salvation, as espoused by some Xian sects works pretty much the same
    >way. Accept JC as your savior, and you're in! That cannot be taken
    >away. You are now free to move about the country - and sin.


    Wrong. A very, very few Christians do espouse such a thing. But only a few
    confused ones. You would think that eventually they would understand the reason
    we have the sacrament of confession.

    And dishonesty in the confessional is no honesty at all.


    duke
    *****
    Matthew 22
    14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
    *****
     
  15. Peter

    Peter Guest

    [email protected] (Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > Peter <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >United we Stand <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > >> In the Bible, does Jesus say abortion is wrong?

    > >
    > >Ex. 20:13 "You shall not kill."!

    >
    > 1) That's not Jesus


    *** Yes, it is! read John 1:1-4 & 14! ***

    > 2) Then why do you kill plants, insects, and animals?


    *** Plants, insects and animals are not sentient let alone human,
    however we were given dominion over the beasts and plants for food and
    insects are just pestilence. ***

    > > You are talking about human fetuses
    > >aren't you, and what would this fetus become if not a human in the
    > >image of God?

    >
    > So killing sperm is murder?


    *** I didn't say that. Are you asking me a question? If so my answer
    would be, a sperm unto itself does not contain the components to
    produce human life so don't go into a chorus a Monty Python song. ***
    >
    > > This word kill in this application is recognized as
    > >"MURDER".

    >
    > And abortion isn't murder.


    *** I'm always interested in hearing how terminating human life -
    before or after birth - isn't murder, like being drafted to fight a
    war or capital punishment. So please, regale us with your wisdom. ***
    >
    > > The ten commandments were given by Christ in the form of the
    > >God of the Old Testament, see John 1 to varify this
     
  16. Ray Fischer

    Ray Fischer Guest

    duke <[email protected]> wrote:
    >Oh, God is real alright. He said no more floods, but that's the OT concept of
    >physical death for the evil in the world.
    >
    >Now it's the NT spiritual death, or spending an eternity in hell for what you
    >did in this lifetime. Use it wisely. God is waiting on you to wise up and
    >change your ways. And that's not a threat - it's a promise.


    When did God appoint you as His spokesman?

    --
    Ray Fischer
    [email protected]
     
  17. Ray Fischer

    Ray Fischer Guest

    Peter <[email protected]> wrote:
    >[email protected] (Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    >> Peter <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> >United we Stand <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    >> >> In the Bible, does Jesus say abortion is wrong?
    >> >
    >> >Ex. 20:13 "You shall not kill."!

    >>
    >> 1) That's not Jesus

    >
    >*** Yes, it is!


    Old Testament isn't Jesus.

    > read John 1:1-4 & 14! ***


    That's not Ex 20:13 and it doesn't say anything about not killing.

    >> 2) Then why do you kill plants, insects, and animals?

    >
    >*** Plants, insects and animals are not sentient let alone human,


    So what? Does Ex. 20:13 say anything about "sentient" or "human"?

    Why do you think that you get to make up your own rules?

    >> > You are talking about human fetuses
    >> >aren't you, and what would this fetus become if not a human in the
    >> >image of God?

    >>
    >> So killing sperm is murder?

    >
    >*** I didn't say that.


    A lot of them become humans "in the image of God".

    > Are you asking me a question? If so my answer
    >would be, a sperm unto itself does not contain the components to
    >produce human life so don't go into a chorus a Monty Python song. ***


    Living, human sperm IS human life.

    It's becoming more obvious that you don't have any justification for
    your rules other then misogyny and the desire to be a control freak.

    >> > This word kill in this application is recognized as
    >> >"MURDER".

    >>
    >> And abortion isn't murder.

    >
    >*** I'm always interested in hearing how terminating human life -
    >before or after birth - isn't murder,


    Is killing living human sperm murder?

    --
    Ray Fischer
    [email protected]
     
  18. On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 00:07:59 GMT, [email protected] (Ray
    Fischer) was understood to have stated the following:

    >
    >When did God appoint you as His spokesman?


    He didn't, but the prior poster is relaying information that is
    contained in God's word.
     
  19. On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 00:12:41 GMT, [email protected] (Ray
    Fischer) was understood to have stated the following:

    >Peter <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>[email protected] (Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    >>> Peter <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>> >United we Stand <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    >>> >> In the Bible, does Jesus say abortion is wrong?
    >>> >
    >>> >Ex. 20:13 "You shall not kill."!
    >>>
    >>> 1) That's not Jesus

    >>
    >>*** Yes, it is!

    >
    >Old Testament isn't Jesus.


    Yes it is; as the prior poster stated, read John 1:1-4 & 14.

    >> read John 1:1-4 & 14! ***

    >
    >That's not Ex 20:13 and it doesn't say anything about not killing.


    But it does state that Jesus is the OT.

    >>> 2) Then why do you kill plants, insects, and animals?

    >>
    >>*** Plants, insects and animals are not sentient let alone human,

    >
    >So what? Does Ex. 20:13 say anything about "sentient" or "human"?


    No, but Genesis 1:26, 28 might explain why killing plants and animals
    isn't a sin.

    >Why do you think that you get to make up your own rules?


    Doesn't seem like he's making up his own rules to me.

    >>> > You are talking about human fetuses
    >>> >aren't you, and what would this fetus become if not a human in the
    >>> >image of God?
    >>>
    >>> So killing sperm is murder?

    >>
    >>*** I didn't say that.

    >
    >A lot of them become humans "in the image of God".


    The vast majority of sperm do not find their intended target. Average
    ejaculate is how many sperm cells? Only one of them, if conception is
    successful, becomes a human "in the image of God." Even without birth
    control, the majority of the acts of copulation do not result in the
    fertilization of an egg.

    >> Are you asking me a question? If so my answer
    >>would be, a sperm unto itself does not contain the components to
    >>produce human life so don't go into a chorus a Monty Python song. ***

    >
    >Living, human sperm IS human life.


    Uh, human sperm is worthless without a human egg.

    >It's becoming more obvious that you don't have any justification for
    >your rules other then misogyny and the desire to be a control freak.


    It could be argued that you have no justification for your rules,
    either. Isn't abortion a form of control?

    >>> > This word kill in this application is recognized as
    >>> >"MURDER".
    >>>
    >>> And abortion isn't murder.

    >>
    >>*** I'm always interested in hearing how terminating human life -
    >>before or after birth - isn't murder,

    >
    >Is killing living human sperm murder?


    No, because until the sperm has fertilized an egg, it's not a human
    being yet.
     
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