In their shoes - would you take it?

[thoughtforfood]

Media has made the word "germs" into a bad thing. There are actually Good and Bad germs. While people are trying to kill all the bad germs, they are also killing the good germs that help the immune system to fight off foreign bacteria and the common cold.

Yep, and it sounds like the people who study the problem are kind of freaked out about how bad it is...

 

[tonyzackery]

It is not cheating when nearly everyone else is doing it.

This year appears to be the first time that doping possibly could be deemed cheating.

Hmmmm...I'll consider passing those words of wisdom on to my children; along with "it's only illegal if you get caught"...phrases to live by.

Wouldn't the world be a better place if everyone thought this way??

 

[C'dale Girl]

Hmmmm...I'll consider passing those words of wisdom on to my children; along with "it's only breaking the law if you get caught"...phrases to live by...

Here's another one to pass along to them: "If you're not cheating, you're not trying."

 

[earth_dweller]

'second place is first loser' is another good one

 

[C'dale Girl]

'second place is first loser' is another good one

Yep, nobody remembers who gets second in anything.

 

[rob of the og]

'second place is first loser

...unless it's the Tour de France, where second place is winner in 18months after all the appeals are finished.'

 

[C'dale Girl]

...unless it's the Tour de France, where second place is winner in 18months after all the appeals are finished.'

But, they still don't remember ya.

 

[TheDarkLord]

Media has made the word "germs" into a bad thing. There are actually Good and Bad germs. While people are trying to kill all the bad germs, they are also killing the good germs that help the immune system to fight off foreign bacteria and the common cold.

Just to clarify my point of view on this matter so that I'm not misinterpreted, I too am against using medicines for simple ailments. I don't take any medicine for common cold, simple fever, cough, etc. (there are other home remedies for these things). In fact, if something becomes serious enough to have to take drugs to cure it, I take certain foods after stopping the medicine so that the good bacteria (in the gut primarily) come back.

But when you get a serious problem inside you, one cannot avoid taking drugs. For example, say someone gets tuberculosis, or something worse. Do you advise him or her to not take any medicine so that the body can fight it off? In any case as I mentioned earlier, while you can ruin your body's immune system by taking drugs unnecessarily, not taking any drugs does not imply that you will be healthy. That was my primary peeve against Klodi's point.

Yes, playing outside in the dirt and getting acclimed to the "germs" outside is a good thing - it was that way when I was a kid. Now, after leaving home and living in a relatively sterilized environment for a while (e.g. US, Germany), I have to be careful when I visit home as I no longer have the immunity against these critters. But it is also true that I've been relatively much more healthy after moving away from home.

 

[Klodifan]

Quote:

never take drugs and I never get sick. the more people take drugs, the more they get sick. generally speaking, of course.

the human body is an amazing machine. taking drugs weakens it.

That's an incredibly stupid argument!

stupid? hmmm... okay. I'll consider the source

 

[Klodifan]

Sounds to me like you are extremely blessed with the good fortune of excellent health. Lucky you not to be born with epilepsy or any other miriad of conditions that really do make it absolutely necessary to take medications in order to be able to even function in life.

I was always a healthy girl, but its not just about genetics. making wise choices are also important. I juice everyday and have a great diet and let my body's immune system work.

my brother is on the other end of the spectrum. he was raised properly and has good genetics as well. obviously. unfortunately, he is ensuring his children grow up with a weak immune system, mostly b/c of his ill-informed wife. their house is as sterile as it comes and everything is anti-bacterial; a bottle of purell is always on hand. his three young children are as sickly as they come. always sick.

finally, i know i wont win any popularity contests, and maybe my entire arguement will be discounted based on what Im about to say. Yet sustaining life for those who would otherwise not survive but with drugs, well, all we are doing is weaking the human race. we need to listen to nature.

 

[thoughtforfood]

finally, i know i wont win any popularity contests, and maybe my entire arguement will be discounted based on what Im about to say. Yet sustaining life for those who would otherwise not survive but with drugs, well, all we are doing is weaking the human race. we need to listen to nature.

Um...I was with you right up until then. I worked for 5 summers at a camp for kids with disabilities and serious/terminal illnesses. I met some of the most beautiful people you would ever want to know there. NONE of them were some mistake. Also, if it were your child who was the natural weakling, you might pull the plug; I wouldn't. MANY of them won't live too long with those diseases, but they don't deserve to suffer with no chance of improved life and a possible chance to grow old simply because they have medical problems.

 

[fscyclist]

You know what TDL, in this case I disagree with you to this extent. My wife is a chiropractor, and my stepson has never been vaccinated. It is a very common thing with chiropractors. My daughter has. My stepson NEVER gets sick. His immune system is amazing. Even when the rest of us are dying with an illness, he is fine. Even when every kid in his class is sick, he is fine. My daughter on the other hand has a much weaker immune system.

For all of the benefits of medicines, and I still take some. I also believe that we would be better off without many of them. Drug resistent infections are killing people, "miracle" drugs like Gardasil turn out to have wicked side effects (wanna read some horror stories, Google Boniva). Pharmaceutical companies advertise the **** out of things, and tell us to go ask our doctor for them.

I do not wholesale disbelieve the benefits of medicine, but I also believe Klodifan is correct about the human body. If we let it, it can do many things that are compromised by over medication in my opinion. Believing that simply because a Dr says it is good for you is dangerous.

Again, a perfect example is to look at multi-drug resistant staph infections. WE caused the bacteria to mutate by over using antibiotics. The thing drug pushers miss is that life in ANY form will continue to adapt so that it can exist. We humans are not alone in that trait.

Your stepson is protected by herd immunity. Everyone else got their immunizations, so he is in turn protected. If no one was immunized it wouldn't take long for outbreaks of deadly diseases to return.

 

[thoughtforfood]

Your stepson is protected by herd immunity. Everyone else got their immunizations, so he is in turn protected. If no one was immunized it wouldn't take long for outbreaks of deadly diseases to return.

That is true, what you cannot discount is the fact that in terms of common diseases, his immune system is stronger based only on personal observation.

 

[thoughtforfood]

Your stepson is protected by herd immunity. Everyone else got their immunizations, so he is in turn protected. If no one was immunized it wouldn't take long for outbreaks of deadly diseases to return.

Also, if what we are left with after all of this immunization are strains of disease resistant to vaccine, what good was it in terms of human history? Trust me, there will be a new AIDS at some point. Again, life will modify to conitnue to live regardless of the organism.

 

[fscyclist]

Also, if what we are left with after all of this immunization are strains of disease resistant to vaccine, what good was it in terms of human history? Trust me, there will be a new AIDS at some point. Again, life will modify to conitnue to live regardless of the organism.

You are correct, but humans have been trying to defeat natural evolution since their beginning. People are attached to relatives and fellow humans and usually don't like watching them die. I can't speak for Australians. In the grand evolutionary sense, you are right that defeating certain diseases probably makes little difference to the species as a whole.

 

[thoughtforfood]

You are correct, but humans have been trying to defeat natural evolution since their beginning. People are attached to relatives and fellow humans and usually don't like watching them die. I can't speak for Australians. In the grand evolutionary sense, you are right that defeating certain diseases probably makes little difference to the species as a whole.

I agree regarding not wanting to see family die, and that is why I posted to Klodi's point of letting them die if they are sick. I also subscribe to the chaos theory still (may be antiquated by now, but it has been a sincere basis for my view of life for a couple of decades now) and I just don't get too worked up about trying to defeat evolution too much. Of course, my stepson doesn't have small pox, so it is theoretical to a certain extent.

 

[C'dale Girl]

I was always a healthy girl, but its not just about genetics. making wise choices are also important. I juice everyday and have a great diet and let my body's immune system work.

my brother is on the other end of the spectrum. he was raised properly and has good genetics as well. obviously. unfortunately, he is ensuring his children grow up with a weak immune system, mostly b/c of his ill-informed wife. their house is as sterile as it comes and everything is anti-bacterial; a bottle of purell is always on hand. his three young children are as sickly as they come. always sick.

finally, i know i wont win any popularity contests, and maybe my entire arguement will be discounted based on what Im about to say. Yet sustaining life for those who would otherwise not survive but with drugs, well, all we are doing is weaking the human race. we need to listen to nature.

Wow . . . so where does the epileptic fit into your grand plan? Unless they fall and bump their head or choke, it's not a life threatening condition so, contrary to what you'd like to happen, they likely will live a long life still (all other things remaining equal). But, the disease is very debilitating in many ways. Your grand diet and exercise plan (or lack thereof) have nothing to do with that particular illness. Actually, you personally could fall off your bike tomorrow or get hit by a car and end up with epilepsy for the rest of your life, due to head trauma and resulting scar tissue.

AND, those epileptics, who weren't as lucky and privileged in life as you thus far, most likely aren't going to die from the condition. So, instead of providing them with meds to hopefully prevent the seizures so as to assist them in being functioning humans that contribute to society and make a living, you theorize that they should remain drug free, flop around their house seizing all day or, worse yet, ending up at an assisted living facility because they have it THAT bad, all at the expense of society (because they can't work whereas a drug could assist them to be able to do so by making them seizure free).

Sounds to me like perhaps you're a tad bit wet behind the ears and overly assumptive when it comes to epidemiology.

But, you are definitely entitled to your opinion, as am I.

 

[jimmypop]

Also, if what we are left with after all of this immunization are strains of disease resistant to vaccine, what good was it in terms of human history? Trust me, there will be a new AIDS at some point. Again, life will modify to conitnue to live regardless of the organism.

Stop talking, right now. I doubt you even passed high school biology.

Next, you'll be pointing us to the conclusive proof that mercury in vaccines is responsible for an autism epidemic.

 

[Crankyfeet]

If people want to know what it was like before drugs (that have wiped out many of the disease risks as fscyclist implied), then just go back 150 years. Then if you got syphilis (a big percentage of the population had it) you had it for life until it usually turned you insane. No wonder infidelity was discouraged in cultural/religious values. If a skin abrasion/cut became infected... you were a real chance of dying (or having your limb amputated) if your immune system was weak at the time. Pneumonia was one of the biggest killers, as was tuberculosis. Operations would be anaesthetized with something to bite on (alcohol was used then... but that's a drug right?).

 

[tonyzackery]

finally, i know i wont win any popularity contests, and maybe my entire arguement will be discounted based on what Im about to say. Yet sustaining life for those who would otherwise not survive but with drugs, well, all we are doing is weaking the human race. we need to listen to nature.

I was going to flame you to ashes...but on second thought, I have nothing but sympathy for you and your apparent attitude towards others less fortunate/worthy/elite/healthy/etc... than yourself...