Increase in power



Yesterday I did 2 x 20 @ 225 watt, which is somewhat under threshold. First 20 was very easy, the second one was a lot of struggle from about 10 minutes into the intervall. Today I decided to do subthreahold intervalls @ roughly 200 watts. Made 3 x 20, with the last intervall @ 210 watt. I was suprised of the difference in stress. Yesterday I struggled with Avr HR of 160 today I had Avr HR of 145 which is what I usually have during a 3 hour ride. Could 15-25 watt really have such difference? Could it be that I am over estimating my FTP (230 watt / hour) and that 225 watts is above FTP? // Matt
 
A couple of thoughts:

- It's not unusual to have a better second day than first day of Threshold work. That's not obvious, but a lot of folks do better after a day when they go fairly hard but don't completely exhaust themselves than they do following a rest day or easy day. It's quite possible your 2x20 at 225 session would have felt better today as did your SST session.

- Backing off even a bit at intensities below FTP can make things feel a lot easier. Dropping from 225 to 210 watts on an FTP of 230 is a bigger step than it might seem at first glance. Riding at ~98% of FTP is a lot more intense than riding at ~91%. Your experience yesterday of feeling all right until the final 10 minutes of the second interval seems about right for a run of the mill training day at 98% of FTP. Feeling strong enough to complete 3x20 at 91% isn't unusual. Backing off a bit and doing more total work is often a good idea with the understanding that it does pay to push from time to time to find out what our new limits might be but in terms of doing solid meat and potatoes work a set of 3 @ 91% is a great Threshold workout as would be a 2x30 set or other longer than normal variations.

Seems to me your current FTP estimate is probably pretty good.

-Dave
 
Managed to Avr 252 watts during 20 minutes today. Was hoping for 260 watt, but my legs felt a bit off today. Had 3 days off due to traveling, was hoping that I would be rested. But I think it gave me the opposite effect. My pulse was also high. Now i Will do two weeks with focus on long distance and endurance before returning to FTP work.
 
Originally Posted by matt76 .

Managed to Avr 252 watts during 20 minutes today. Was hoping for 260 watt, but my legs felt a bit off today. Had 3 days off due to traveling, was hoping that I would be rested. But I think it gave me the opposite effect. My pulse was also high.

Now i Will do two weeks with focus on long distance and endurance before returning to FTP work.
You may find you get a better result if you try again 2 days later. Now you've shocked your legs back to life, have a short ride today then try and smash it tomorrow. 3 days with no riding before a key race or test isn't ideal as you are out of your routine (the body loves routine). My Heart rate is usually higher when i'm fresh after a few days off - nothing to worry about!
 
Originally Posted by Conan .

You may find you get a better result if you try again 2 days later. Now you've shocked your legs back to life, have a short ride today then try and smash it tomorrow. 3 days with no riding before a key race or test isn't ideal as you are out of your routine (the body loves routine). My Heart rate is usually higher when i'm fresh after a few days off - nothing to worry about!
+1, a day or even two can bring extra freshness, much more and I tend to get a bit blocked up and not perform well till I've opened my legs back up.

YMMV,
-Dave
 
Today I decide to do 1 x 60 min @ 90-92 % of threshold. First 30 minutes felt very easy, next 20 min tough and last 10 was à struggle... HR went from 143 (Avr 152 First 30 min) to 167 in the end. I think this is due to overheating. I train in à small room. It's funny how it can feel so easy and then become so hard in the end. Good workout with a lot of room for improvement...
 
Originally Posted by matt76 .

Today I decide to do 1 x 60 min @ 90-92 % of threshold. First 30 minutes felt very easy, next 20 min tough and last 10 was à struggle...

HR went from 143 (Avr 152 First 30 min) to 167 in the end. I think this is due to overheating. I train in à small room.

It's funny how it can feel so easy and then become so hard in the end.

Good workout with a lot of room for improvement...
Actually, that's exactly how a MMP effort should feel, regardless of the duration.
 
Originally Posted by matt76 .

Today I decide to do 1 x 60 min @ 90-92 % of threshold. First 30 minutes felt very easy, next 20 min tough and last 10 was à struggle...

HR went from 143 (Avr 152 First 30 min) to 167 in the end. I think this is due to overheating. I train in à small room.

It's funny how it can feel so easy and then become so hard in the end.

Good workout with a lot of room for improvement...
I concur with your thoughs re overheating. Get a good fan, make sure you drink enough and also taking some calories on board will help. 750 mls of a good sports drink will give you enough calories for an hour although you may need some additional water.
 
Hi!

After about 2 mounth with more structure in my training I have noted following. Over the last two months I have focus on longer intervalls, primarilly 20-30 minutes, with some exeptions when I did som 8 minutes intervalls.

I can't say that my FTP has increased but my performance seems more consistent. No matter if I'm tired from work, had a long day or skipped lunch I can still do 20 minutes @ 220-230 watts (90-100 % of FTP). Before I had some days and specially the 2nd intervall where it was hard to do +200 watts.

A week agp I did a 4 min all-out and managed 316 watts without being "all-out". It is the best performance ever indoors (managed 330 outdoors). Amazing that I have improved that without V2max intervalls...

I will do a few more months with 2 x 20 and also try to get in 1x60 or 1 x90 to improve further,,,

I have also last 7 kg since last season.

Looking forward to spring and a new season.

- Matt
 
I have an other question; I'm strugling with longer rides. I think that My 5 minute average is good, 20 min is ok but I drop a lot in power when I move to 60 and 90 minutes. 20 min I average at 260 watts and 60 minutes at 215 watts How do I trainin to improve? Should i do longer intervalls > 40 minutes or still do 20s but Increase the number of intervalls? Matt
 
If your schedule permits, you probably just need to increase your total volume of SST/L4 efforts. How many minutes per week are you doing total at an intensity of SST or better?
 
Currently I'm doing about 3 hours in zone four or higher. The majority is in zone four. I do a total of 5-6 hours of trianing, all indoors. If I understood you correctly it doesn't matter if it is 3x20 @ 220 or 1x60 @ 220, it is the total time that is most important? Thanks for Your help! Matt
 
Yes, total volume is most important. BTW, you say zone 4. Do you mean Level 4? If you are using Andy Coggan's schema, it is in levels. Ric Stern uses zones, but they are derived from a different base (MAP).
 
Yes, threshold level. I'm using Coggan's schemma. Is there no Benefit in using longer intervalls? I think it feels easier to do 2x20 then 1x40 at same resistance. Matt
 
I personally like to do longish L4 efforts at this time of year (e.g., 40mins), but total volume is what is most important. If you find 2x20 easier than 1x40, then do 2x20s. If you can increase your total volume, you will see the difference in your longer rides.
 
I have been trying to extend the minutes on my intervals. I have managed to do 40-60 minutes @ 90%. However, My plan for the last days has been to do 2 x 40 @ 90 %. First rep is easy, some struggle in the end but overall not so bad. When I begin my second intervall I struggle more or less from minute one and last for 10-20 minutes before I'm done. I have tried with using sports energy in the bottles. Am I missing the aerobic engine? Should I reduce watts to 80% to be able to complete the session? Thankful for tips! - Matt
 
Originally Posted by matt76 .

I have been trying to extend the minutes on my intervals.

I have managed to do 40-60 minutes @ 90%. However, My plan for the last days has been to do 2 x 40 @ 90 %. First rep is easy, some struggle in the end but overall not so bad. When I begin my second intervall I struggle more or less from minute one and last for 10-20 minutes before I'm done.

I have tried with using sports energy in the bottles. Am I missing the aerobic engine? Should I reduce watts to 80% to be able to complete the session?

Thankful for tips!
- Matt
Actually, I think I would reverse it and do a little less on effort #1 and do a full 90% on effort #2. I don't think you will need to go to 80% for effort #1. I would try 85% first and see how that goes. 2x40 at ~90%FTP is awesome!
 
Originally Posted by matt76 .

I have been trying to extend the minutes on my intervals.

I have managed to do 40-60 minutes @ 90%. However, My plan for the last days has been to do 2 x 40 @ 90 %. First rep is easy, some struggle in the end but overall not so bad. When I begin my second intervall I struggle more or less from minute one and last for 10-20 minutes before I'm done.

I have tried with using sports energy in the bottles. Am I missing the aerobic engine? Should I reduce watts to 80% to be able to complete the session?

Thankful for tips!
- Matt
When I do 2x20 indoors I also find that I finish the first one strong and then begin the second one weak. It seems like the short rest is counter-productive and perhaps I should just do a 1x40. I don't notice this as much outside.
 
Originally Posted by matt76 .

I have been trying to extend the minutes on my intervals.

I have managed to do 40-60 minutes @ 90%. However, My plan for the last days has been to do 2 x 40 @ 90 %. First rep is easy, some struggle in the end but overall not so bad. When I begin my second intervall I struggle more or less from minute one and last for 10-20 minutes before I'm done.

I have tried with using sports energy in the bottles. Am I missing the aerobic engine? Should I reduce watts to 80% to be able to complete the session?

Thankful for tips!
- Matt
Per Hunter Allen's "The Next Level" article
[COLOR= rgb(51, 51, 51)]If you get too tired to ride right at your FTP, then lower the wattages down to your ‘sweet-spot’ wattage, 88-93% of FTP and continue from there. You’ll still get plenty of training stress and as long as you can maintain at least 88% or so, then you should be [/COLOR][COLOR= rgb(51, 51, 51)]training intensely enough to get improvements in your threshold.[/COLOR]
 
I have been doing longer intervalls (40-60 min) at lower watt (about 90-95 % of FTP) and I think it has been very good for my 2 x 20. I have increased my level with 20 watts in 3 weeks, before I blow up if I did the first session to hard, know I think I recover better and can do a better 2nd session. Did 245 watt last night, next target is 250 within two weeks and then 280 watts in may... Thanks for all advise!