Increase in power
- Thread starter matt76
- Start date
Do you even know what you're selling spammer?
From your own link:
"The underlying principle of sweet spot training is a balanced amount of intensity and volume that produces a maximal increase in an athlete’s functional threshold power (FTP)".
After getting advise and regading on the forum, it is my understanding that 2 x 20 @ 90 % of FTP is good Bang for the buck. Why not do it at higher intensity or longer? Maybe it just me, but 20 minutes @ 90 % of FTP is not such a hard session. For me with a FTP of 240 it means that I should do about 215 as average. My MMP is 265, so it is à difference of 50 watts. Is the intensity correct? - Matt
Many of us do this so we can train day to day with consistency. It kind of depends on you overall goal, schedule and other attributes.
I find when I have newly set levels 90% at 20 minutes is pretty challenging and then as the weeks go it hopefully gets a bit easier as you state. But with new levels or not what is key for me personally is being able to hit my goals the next day and the day after that. If I go to a higher IF I may start to decline on the 3rd day or so. Then put all that together with extended outlook of weeks how well are you holding up. Some recover and progress better than others and you may be one of those.
If they are feeling that easy with day to day training (3 to 5 days in a row) maybe you need to test again?
I think a number of us shake it up a little as well. As I start getting accustomed to my new level I do begin to stretch out my interval time. At the new adjustment I stick with 2x20's and will do that for a few weeks and then go to 2x30's and then to a 1x40 and 1x20 and then to a 1x60. It is when I start to feel really comfortable with that 1x60 is when I start to look at whether I need to make another adjustment to my levels. I also throw in over and unders on some nights at the end of a 2x20 in another set of 20's. So I think that though many of us discuss 2x20's there is a lot more variability to our training than it may appear. Now that a lot of these guys are entering their race season it may appear even more different with days of higher intensity intervals.
I find when I have newly set levels 90% at 20 minutes is pretty challenging and then as the weeks go it hopefully gets a bit easier as you state. But with new levels or not what is key for me personally is being able to hit my goals the next day and the day after that. If I go to a higher IF I may start to decline on the 3rd day or so. Then put all that together with extended outlook of weeks how well are you holding up. Some recover and progress better than others and you may be one of those.
If they are feeling that easy with day to day training (3 to 5 days in a row) maybe you need to test again?
I think a number of us shake it up a little as well. As I start getting accustomed to my new level I do begin to stretch out my interval time. At the new adjustment I stick with 2x20's and will do that for a few weeks and then go to 2x30's and then to a 1x40 and 1x20 and then to a 1x60. It is when I start to feel really comfortable with that 1x60 is when I start to look at whether I need to make another adjustment to my levels. I also throw in over and unders on some nights at the end of a 2x20 in another set of 20's. So I think that though many of us discuss 2x20's there is a lot more variability to our training than it may appear. Now that a lot of these guys are entering their race season it may appear even more different with days of higher intensity intervals.
Considering that your 20 minute power is most likely 105-110% FTP, you are only riding at 80-85% of your 20 minute power. It should feel easy.
If you think it improves your abilities, the only reason to change is if you think something else will do a better job of improving your abilities.
I find 90-95% for 20 minutes out of every 30 minutes for 3 hours is helpful for me.
90% of FTP is 90% of FTP.
Originally Posted by An old Guy
...I find 90-95% for 20 minutes out of every 30 minutes for 3 hours is helpful for me....
Post files of one of these sessions or we all know it never happened outside of your dreams. Either that or your FTP is grossly under estimated.
We still haven't seen your several miles of VO2 Max riding followed by a minute of L6 at conversational pace. Actually we've never seen any data to back up your trolling. Get with it man and put your data where your mouth is!
No need for files. Simple science works.
The common model for power output v. time is an exponential where tripling the time results in about 5% decrease in power. For example 60 minute power (1 hour; FTP) is about 95% of 20 minute power. Or more to the point here: 3 hour power is 95% of FTP. It is not difficult to do 2 hours (six 20 minute intervals) at 90-95% FTP in 3 hours.
If you want a more accurate estimate, NASA published power output v. time curves for a number of "classes" of people.
If you want to hold 95% for 3 hours and find it difficult, I would suggest changing your training. Perhaps follow Bigpikle's comments.
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You seem confused by terms like VO2 Max and L6.
I was riding a couple days ago and one of the local women racers passed my while I was waiting for a red light. I figured she was a good goal.
So I rode at 110-125% FTP until I caught her. Only a couple minutes. Not a big deal.
Taking pace (following about 2 seconds back) off of her was only 75%. I passed her at 110-125%. Big mistake because she grabbed my wheel and sat in. To much pride on my part. So for a couple miles I pulled her until the next hill. My heart rate almost got to where I should train at.
She passed me on the 3 minute downhill as I rested - I never take the downhill fast; too many people around. I chased her again at 110-125%. Not a big deal. Took pace off of her again at 75%. Passed her. Big mistake. Pulled for a couple miles. Almost training heart rate. 200% FTP up the short hill. Training heart rate.
She vanished for the next couple miles. I think she stopped for a drink. After I turned around and started back, I Saw her againr. Big smiles all around. I think she enjoyed the work. I will see her again.
7-8 miles of good riding. Maybe 3 miles of good training. 2:45 total ride time.
Never hit VO2 Max. Hit L6 on the short hill. Always able to carry on a conversation.
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Your confusion comes from equating short term power numbers to long term power levels. The short term needs to be long enough to get the heart rate up to the "level", or your equating is not valid.
Most of the locals can hit 200% FTP on the short hills and carry on a conversation. Not much to brag about unless the guy you are talking to is gasping.
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I would charge to provide the information you want. There are rules against advertising on the site. So don't ask for this information again.
Wow the pure horseshit you come up with is astounding.
If you make outrageous claims the onus is on you to back them up with data. No one is going to pay you a dime to race your bike (as you've previously stated is the only way you'd do that) and no one is going to pay you a dime for your ride data which is pure fiction.
Show us one simple file where you've ridden 20 minutes out of every 30 minute stretch at or above 90% of your FTP for three hours. That's all we ask. RDO and I have posted plenty of our own ride data to back our claims why are you so chickenshit about doing the same. Perhaps because you post nothing but pure ******** and can't back up your claims.
You're nothing but a troll and have nothing to offer to any serious conversation about power based training.
I guess it wouldn't be a real internet forum without a few trolls to keep things lively. Keep it up but don't expect anyone to take any of your advice seriously if you can't man up and back them up with anything but more ******** but I suppose as a troll you don't actually want to be taken seriously.
Best of luck with your future trolling and securing that paid riding contract so you can enter your first Cat 5 race,
-Dave
Dave and others, An Old Guy is simply a 'wind up merchant'. Like Trolls the best wind up merchants often mix in a tiny fact or 2 with their fantasies to tease out potential biters. We all need to stop biting when he dangles the bait because we're simply reinforcing his behaviour. As RDO said An Old Guys post are indeed "comic relief"
If you don't control your language, someone is going to report you to the moderators and they will deal with you.
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You might recall a few months ago Andy Coggan provided ride data from a dozen or so riders that proved my claim that NP, TSS, and the other acronims are defective.
I am sure Andy Coggan or perhaps TrainingPeaks has the data you want. I am sure they will provide the data. The most important point of getting data dat from them is you are less likely to claim the FTPs are too low.
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I have been lucky so far. No one has offered me a contract.
She won't have to, he'll be sitting in the cafe blogging about his awesome power numbers and how he wouldn't demonstrate his awesomeness till someone pays him to do it.
I guess you being from the UK leads to a different reading of my post.
I often have a goal of catching up with people and taking pace off of them. She seemed a reachable goal. I repaid her by pulling (from her viewpoint) at a reasonble effort.
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She is a pleasant person. Harbors no ill will toward me.
