Increased FTP 10 watts in first month

Discussion in 'Power Training' started by marmatt, Jan 6, 2007.

  1. marmatt

    marmatt New Member

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    So I am pretty siked to have done this,however one thing was odd-I have always(well in 2 years of cycling) done better in crits than other road races,but my power profile stuck me into cat3 range for FTP and 5 minute power but as untrained on 15sec and 1 minute ranges-granted I trested on the trainer and haven't done much training above l4 yet(mostly sweet spot actually)but to find out that what I thought my power profile would be ending up completely backwards(upward sloping) just baffles me--any ideas:confused:
     
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  2. whoawhoa

    whoawhoa New Member

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    You need to get on the road to test. No way are you going to get accurate 5 second and 1-minute values on most stationary trainers.
     
  3. TiMan

    TiMan New Member

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    I agree with the 5 second.....but one minute power can certainly be done accurately on a trainer. Why would you think otherwise?
     
  4. rayhuang

    rayhuang New Member

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    I agree-my best 1-minute power is on the trainer, but by far (almost 300 watts more)my best 0.2, 2 and 5 sec and 10 sec powers on the road. I need to get out of the saddle and really mash the pedals and swing that bike which just leads to wheel spin on the trainer.
     
  5. Bullseye_blam

    Bullseye_blam New Member

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    yeah, you're going to have to do all-out efforts for those time periods in order to accurately assess yourself in the power profile...

    I just did a one-minute power test a few minutes ago [since I got my power meter a couple weeks ago and hadn't specifically done any testing in that range, either] on my trainer. pretty interesting, but I think I would've rather found a hill with a moderate incline instead [or perhaps my trainer doesn't offer enough resistance, because I was in my top gear and averaging 118 cadence at my peak...]. not really sure.

    definitely need to be on the road for an accurate 5 second power, though! :)

    -Eric
     
  6. rayhuang

    rayhuang New Member

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    Yeah Eric-if you have to use your biggest gear and that high of cadence-you probably need to do your tests outdoors. I can tell you that a KK or Fluid2 will solve that issue-but of course your talking $300 t change trainers.
     
  7. Uhl

    Uhl New Member

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    Personally, I can't get very good 1-minute scores on a trainer; I have to be outside. That's because I usually start with a 90%, out-of-the-saddle sprint to stack the effort with a few seconds of >1,000 Watt numbers. Then I settle in for the next 40 seconds. Finally, I stand up again and give it everything I have for the last 10 seconds. Because of all the standing, I can't generate the same power on a trainer where I can't crank on the handlebars like I do when I'm on the road.

    Of course, I can still use an indoor 1-minute test to gauge my progress...I just need to make sure I only compare it to other indoor tests (apples to apples). But those numbers don't look nearly as good in my power profile chart! :(

    BTW, here's an analysis of 1-minute test pacing strategies I wrote about in my blog last month:
    Top 1-minute Powers.
     
  8. Bullseye_blam

    Bullseye_blam New Member

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    Ahh, very interesting charts you have on your site. My most recent [and only, probably] 1-minute power test was basically a constant all-out; and yes, it did hurt like hell! ;) I'm curious to try a few different approaches...

    -Eric
     
  9. Quadsweep

    Quadsweep New Member

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    The test is suppose to be in the saddle all out for one minute, after an initial sprint out of the saddle.
     
  10. Bullseye_blam

    Bullseye_blam New Member

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    Well, that is fine... it all depends on what you are trying to test. If you're trying to see what the highest average power is given your constraints, or whether you're simply trying to generate the highest average power over that period of time [which perhaps does not involve being seated the entire duration].

    -Eric
     
  11. Quadsweep

    Quadsweep New Member

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    Oh, ya, you are right on that.
    But then you can't go to Coggans power profile chart to look up where you fall in the Cats, cause his chart is based on an beginning sprint and then seated all the way through the effort.
     
  12. Alex Simmons

    Alex Simmons Member

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    I would hazard a guess that those numbers (especially at the top end of the chart) would be set by track kilo riders where that would be the case anyway, since max avg speed is their aim.
     
  13. Bullseye_blam

    Bullseye_blam New Member

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    Well, here's a thought I had on the trainer today...

    If sitting vs. standing uses some different musculature, wouldn't those different muscle groups, when used in conjunction [i.e. sprinting to start, then sitting, and sprinting to finish] have a higher total anaerobic work capacity?

    Assuming the aerobic work done over that period of time was the same... a higher average wattage. Comments?

    -Eric
     
  14. Uhl

    Uhl New Member

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    Where did you learn that? If you're referring to Training and Racing with a Power Meter, it says "You should be out of the saddle hammering at the beginning, and then seated and driving it all the way to the finish." I interpret the word "should" as a suggestion. Nowhere have I read that you have to do that in order to use the Power Profile Chart, nor that it was how the chart was created.

    Even if I missed something and I'm wrong, I'm still more interested in how my scores compare to my own prior scores, than where they end up in the chart. Since some of my best scores occur during races where I don't have artificial constraints like that, when I test, I just try to achieve the best score I can. It's hard enough to achieve a PR in testing, when I don't have that testosterone-inducing competition to spur me on, that I need all the help I can get! :)

    BTW, here's an interesting quote about how the charts were developed:

    What I want to know is who were the riders used for the top anchor values?! And how many seconds they were standing versus sitting?! ;)
     
  15. Alex Simmons

    Alex Simmons Member

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    Well I still reckon it's probably the biggest baddest meanest fastest kilo rider you can think of (think 61 second kilo riders - they're a rare breed). Watch them ride and you see a standing acceleration phase in the vicinity of 15 seconds I'd say.

    It guess it would be different with a rolling start as time to max speed would be much shorter.
     
  16. acoggan

    acoggan Member

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    Your thinking is correct: standing will allow you involve more muscle mass, such that your 1 min power will tend to be greater due to an enhanced anaerobic capacity. It's tough to ride all out out-of-the-saddle for a full minute, however, and even in a short sprint standing only adds ~10% to your power. In any case, what's most important is that you test in a consistent manner, as precisely where you fall on the table isn't the important point - the overall pattern is what matters.
     
  17. acoggan

    acoggan Member

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    Your guess would be correct.
     
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