Individual travel in Tibet



P

Per LöWdin

Guest
Rumour has it that individual travel is permitted in Tibet again. Can anyone confirm or refute this?
We are thinking of cycling from Yunnan to Lhasa and wind up in Kathmandu if it is possible without
hassles from the authorities.

Would be utterly grateful for any updates on the situation in Tibet.

Per http://www.lowdin.nu/MTB/MTB.html
 
>Rumour has it that individual travel is permitted in Tibet again. Can anyone confirm or refute
>this? We are thinking of cycling from Yunnan to Lhasa and wind up in Kathmandu if it is possible
>without hassles from the authorities.

I don't know for certain. However, my suggestion is to subscribe and ask the question on The
Oriental List. See here for instructions. http://members.axion.net/~pnh/China.html

The topic of overland travel to Tibet comes up periodically. From a discussion on the list last
week, travel from Chengdu was still closed. Travel is allowed via Golmud. The situations appear to
vary over time and the Oriental List is a good source to keep up.

--mev, Mike Vermeulen

p.s. If you do end up cycling overland, please post details or a trip report. A cycling trip from
Delhi to Beijing still in the dreams...
 
"Per Löwdin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Rumour has it that individual travel is permitted in Tibet again. Can
anyone
> confirm or refute this? We are thinking of cycling from Yunnan to Lhasa
and

Why don't you ask the Chinese authority?
 
On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 18:20:39 +0200, the renowned "Markku Grönroos"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"Per Löwdin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Rumour has it that individual travel is permitted in Tibet again. Can
>anyone
>> confirm or refute this? We are thinking of cycling from Yunnan to Lhasa
>and
>
>Why don't you ask the Chinese authority?

They are not always a reliable source of information on such matters.

Best regards, Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" [email protected] Info for manufacturers:
http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
 
"Spehro Pefhany" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 18:20:39 +0200, the renowned "Markku Grönroos" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Per Löwdin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >> Rumour has it that individual travel is permitted in Tibet again. Can
> >anyone
> >> confirm or refute this? We are thinking of cycling from Yunnan to Lhasa
> >and
> >
> >Why don't you ask the Chinese authority?
>
> They are not always a reliable source of information on such matters.
>
Who is more reliable on a decision to be made by Chinese? Someone in this group?
 
Markku Grönroos <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Spehro Pefhany" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> "Markku Grönroos" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> "Per Löwdin" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> Rumour has it that individual travel is permitted in Tibet again. Can anyone confirm or refute
>>>> this? We are thinking of cycling from Yunnan to Lhasa
>>>
>>> Why don't you ask the Chinese authority?
>>
>> They are not always a reliable source of information on such matters.
>
> Who is more reliable on a decision to be made by Chinese? Someone in this group?

The problem is that "the Chinese authority" is a many-headed creature. What someone at your local
consulate tells you may have nothing to do with the decision actually made by the official in the
provincial town you have to pass through en route to Tibet. Short of hiring someone to go attempt
the trip on your behalf and report back, getting recent testimonials from other travelers is the
best way to find out the real scoop.

miguel
--
Hundreds of travel photos from around the world: http://travel.u.nu/
 
On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 18:20:39 +0200, "Markku Grönroos"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"Per Löwdin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Rumour has it that individual travel is permitted in Tibet again. Can
>anyone
>> confirm or refute this? We are thinking of cycling from Yunnan to Lhasa
>and
>
>Why don't you ask the Chinese authority?
>

Your reply, though meant well and seemingly logical, did make me smile. Whoever has ever dealt with
the Chinese authority knows the answer to this question ;)

Kris
 
> p.s. If you do end up cycling overland, please post details or a trip report. A cycling trip from
> Delhi to Beijing still in the dreams...

Sure would, though, I am afraid there has become so much traffic that it would not be much fun
through large parts of India and China.

Just recently, there was a rumour that they allow individual travel in Tibet again, if they do, so
it is reasonably predictable, we would like to start in Northern Yunnan, Dali, Lijang or Zongdhian,
and make it across eastern Tibet to Lhasa, possibly with a detour to Khailas, and end in Kathmandu.
Should be splendid in July and August as most of the route would be in rain shadow.

Per http://lowdin.nu
 
On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 21:48:12 +0100, Kris <[email protected]> from -= Belgacom
Usenet Service =- wrote:

>On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 18:20:39 +0200, "Markku Grönroos" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Per Löwdin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>> Rumour has it that individual travel is permitted in Tibet again. Can
>>anyone
>>> confirm or refute this? We are thinking of cycling from Yunnan to Lhasa
>>and
>>
>>Why don't you ask the Chinese authority?
>>
>
>Your reply, though meant well and seemingly logical, did make me smile. Whoever has ever dealt with
>the Chinese authority knows the answer to this question ;)

Why don't you just get a bunch of guns and a kickin' bike and go in there all Rambo like and
liberate the Tibetan people from their brutal dictator. It's The American Way! Jai Guru Deva BOOM!
Maybe you can get some air support from rec.aviation.

--
real e-mail addy: kevansmith23 at yahoo dot com
I didn't order any WOO-WOO ... Maybe a YUBBA ... But no WOO-WOO!
 
On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 15:15:12 -0600, the renowned Kevan Smith
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Why don't you just get a bunch of guns and a kickin' bike and go in there all Rambo like and
>liberate the Tibetan people from their brutal dictator. It's The American Way! Jai Guru Deva BOOM!
>Maybe you can get some air support from rec.aviation.

No can do, Kevan. Too many powerful people are making too much money from China to allow any
boat-rocking.

Best regards, Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" [email protected] Info for manufacturers:
http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
 
On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 15:15:12 -0600, Kevan Smith
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 21:48:12 +0100, Kris <[email protected]> from -= Belgacom Usenet Service
>=- wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 18:20:39 +0200, "Markku Grönroos" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Per Löwdin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>> Rumour has it that individual travel is permitted in Tibet again. Can
>>>anyone
>>>> confirm or refute this? We are thinking of cycling from Yunnan to Lhasa
>>>and
>>>
>>>Why don't you ask the Chinese authority?
>>>
>>
>>Your reply, though meant well and seemingly logical, did make me smile. Whoever has ever dealt
>>with the Chinese authority knows the answer to this question ;)
>
>Why don't you just get a bunch of guns and a kickin' bike and go in there all Rambo like and
>liberate the Tibetan people from their brutal dictator. It's The American Way! Jai Guru Deva BOOM!
>Maybe you can get some air support from rec.aviation.

We're talking about Chinese bureaucracy, not Rambo or liberating Tibetans or whatever. Stick to the
subject please.

Kris
 
On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 18:56:25 GMT, the renowned [email protected] (Miguel
Cruz) wrote:

>Markku Grönroos <[email protected]> wrote:
>> "Spehro Pefhany" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> "Markku Grönroos" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> "Per Löwdin" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> Rumour has it that individual travel is permitted in Tibet again. Can anyone confirm or refute
>>>>> this? We are thinking of cycling from Yunnan to Lhasa
>>>>
>>>> Why don't you ask the Chinese authority?
>>>
>>> They are not always a reliable source of information on such matters.
>>
>> Who is more reliable on a decision to be made by Chinese? Someone in this group?
>
>The problem is that "the Chinese authority" is a many-headed creature. What someone at your local
>consulate tells you may have nothing to do with the decision actually made by the official in the
>provincial town you have to pass through en route to Tibet. Short of hiring someone to go attempt
>the trip on your behalf and report back, getting recent testimonials from other travelers is the
>best way to find out the real scoop.

Your local consulate (if they even bother to answer their phone) will probably tell you that you
MUST book an expensive tour. I've had the gov't run CITS lie to my face (in Beijing).

Best regards, Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" [email protected] Info for manufacturers:
http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
 
On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 21:43:31 GMT, Spehro Pefhany
<[email protected]> from Rather wrote:

>On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 15:15:12 -0600, the renowned Kevan Smith <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>Why don't you just get a bunch of guns and a kickin' bike and go in there all Rambo like and
>>liberate the Tibetan people from their brutal dictator. It's The American Way! Jai Guru Deva BOOM!
>>Maybe you can get some air support from rec.aviation.
>
>No can do, Kevan. Too many powerful people are making too much money from China to allow any
>boat-rocking.

Like Wal-Mart.

Hmmm ..... bombing Tibet with Wal-Mart bikes ......

--
real e-mail addy: kevansmith23 at yahoo dot com
mouse cuts a dog hence
 
On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 22:45:30 +0100, Kris <[email protected]> from -= Belgacom
Usenet Service =- wrote:

>On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 15:15:12 -0600, Kevan Smith <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 21:48:12 +0100, Kris <[email protected]> from -= Belgacom Usenet Service
>>=- wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 18:20:39 +0200, "Markku Grönroos" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Per Löwdin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>>> Rumour has it that individual travel is permitted in Tibet again. Can
>>>>anyone
>>>>> confirm or refute this? We are thinking of cycling from Yunnan to Lhasa
>>>>and
>>>>
>>>>Why don't you ask the Chinese authority?
>>>>
>>>
>>>Your reply, though meant well and seemingly logical, did make me smile. Whoever has ever dealt
>>>with the Chinese authority knows the answer to this question ;)
>>
>>Why don't you just get a bunch of guns and a kickin' bike and go in there all Rambo like and
>>liberate the Tibetan people from their brutal dictator. It's The American Way! Jai Guru Deva BOOM!
>>Maybe you can get some air support from rec.aviation.
>
>We're talking about Chinese bureaucracy, not Rambo or liberating Tibetans or whatever. Stick to the
>subject please.

OK, it seems to me that if you go to Tibet and spend any dough, then you are supporting the Chinese
invasion and occupation of a sovereign country. Now, if you could do it without helping China .....

--
real e-mail addy: kevansmith23 at yahoo dot com
In Newark the laundromats are open 24 hours a day!
 
> Your local consulate (if they even bother to answer their phone) will probably tell you that you
> MUST book an expensive tour. I've had the gov't run CITS lie to my face (in Beijing).

Yes, CITS is a leech like organisation, we travelled in Tibet in 1996,
http://www.lowdin.nu/Treks/Hiddenvalley/Hiddentrek1.html. Then, they clamped down on all individual
travel. When they refused to sell us bus tickets to Shigatse and referred us to CITS we chose to
abort our journey in Tibet, took a flight next day to Kathmandu and went to the Hidden Valley
instead. The less one has to do with CITS the better.

Per http://lowdin.nu
 
>>
>>We're talking about Chinese bureaucracy, not Rambo or liberating Tibetans or whatever. Stick to
>>the subject please.
>
>OK, it seems to me that if you go to Tibet and spend any dough, then you are supporting the Chinese
>invasion and occupation of a sovereign country. Now, if you could do it without helping China .....

Excellent idea. Let's see what happens... We concince the original poster not to go to Tibet.
Chinese Intelligence in Beijing intercepts our postings on Usenet. Big panic among the Communist
leaders. Emergency meeting. "A few backpackers are not coming to Tibet any more... Exactly what we
feared... Things are going very wrong in our Motherland China, the tourists are not coming any more,
oh, we have to do something, China can't survive without tourists".

They decide to pull out of Tibet as quickly as possible. Of course, in the process they also remove
the roads, hospitals, schools, telecommunication infrastructure, waterworks,... they built and leave
the Tibetan people to rot in the same state they were in before the Chinese invasion.

My point, a) you will not make ANY difference (same as not visiting Myanmar will change a single
thing) and b) it's not ALL bad the Chinese did and do in Tibet.

Kris
 
On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 09:32:22 +0100, Kris <[email protected]> from -= Belgacom
Usenet Service =- wrote:

>>>
>>>We're talking about Chinese bureaucracy, not Rambo or liberating Tibetans or whatever. Stick to
>>>the subject please.
>>
>>OK, it seems to me that if you go to Tibet and spend any dough, then you are supporting the
>>Chinese invasion and occupation of a sovereign country. Now, if you could do it without helping
>>China .....
>
>Excellent idea. Let's see what happens... We concince the original poster not to go to Tibet.
>Chinese Intelligence in Beijing intercepts our postings on Usenet. Big panic among the Communist
>leaders. Emergency meeting. "A few backpackers are not coming to Tibet any more... Exactly what we
>feared... Things are going very wrong in our Motherland China, the tourists are not coming any
>more, oh, we have to do something, China can't survive without tourists".
>
>They decide to pull out of Tibet as quickly as possible. Of course, in the process they also remove
>the roads, hospitals, schools, telecommunication infrastructure, waterworks,... they built and
>leave the Tibetan people to rot in the same state they were in before the Chinese invasion.
>
>My point, a) you will not make ANY difference (same as not visiting Myanmar will change a single
>thing) and b) it's not ALL bad the Chinese did and do in Tibet.

Just the killing, raping and torturing stuff is bad, I suppose. And that's bad enough to make me
want to keep my money out of their hands. Fat chance I have, though, seeing as how they own our
economy with cheap consumer goods.

Here's a clue for you: it's admirable to sacrifice personal pleasure for a noble principle.

--
real e-mail addy: kevansmith23 at yahoo dot com
Where's the Coke machine? Tell me a joke!!
 
> Just the killing, raping and torturing stuff is bad, I suppose. And that's
bad
> enough to make me want to keep my money out of their hands. Fat chance I
have,
> though, seeing as how they own our economy with cheap consumer goods.

No doubt the US Tibet policy is totally spineless. As is most other countries. With regard to
boycotts or where the money goes you can do a lot with regard to how you travel. Go on a tour with
the CITS and only a minuscle part of what you spend will trickle down to Tibetans in menial
positions, whereas quite a few Chinese will make a good cut at the same time as it will make the
Chinese occupation appear legitimate. The CITS may even make sure one is only taken to places where
one can´t see or realise that a genocide is going on.

On the other hand cycling through you will spend most money in Tibetan road side restaurants and
meet lots of Tibetans, the Chinese are largely concentrated to the towns. Indeed, by just asking if
it can be done the issue of the Chinese occupation of Tibet is raised and made obvious. If there was
not an occupation the question would not be posed.

Per http://lowdin.nu
 
> Who is more reliable on a decision to be made by Chinese?

Markku: are you at all aware of Sino-Tibetan relations? The Chinese have no more right to be there
than Russia or Sweden has had in their claims to Finland. Tibet is occupied.

In fact the case of Finland offers some hope. The Finns survived hundreds of years of Swedish
and Russian occupation. Hopefully, the Tibetans may do the same and emerge as an independent
nation one day.

> Someone in this group?

Yes!

Per http://lowdin.nu
 
"Per Löwdin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > Who is more reliable on a decision to be made by Chinese?
>
> Markku: are you at all aware of Sino-Tibetan relations? The Chinese have no more right to be there
> than Russia or Sweden has had in their claims to Finland. Tibet is occupied.
>
It IS the Chinese who control visits to Tibet. Nobody cares about such claims of powerless Swedes.
Actually my suggestion is to contact a Chinese agency to find out these technicalities. It might be
far more laborous then than to get similar piece of information concerning most other countries.
Somebody suggested a Lonely Planet database, which may turn to be a fertile piece of advive.