Indoor Trainer Recommendations
- Thread starter Lucy_Aspenwind
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I have seen that data and I'm not sure what your point is. All trainers are going to have some form of relationship between power and speed. What matters is (1) whether the relationship is constant after the trainer has been warmed up or whether it "drifts" over the course of a high-intensity effort and (2) whether the relationship allows one to do a high-intensity effort as a fixed percentage of maximum sustainable power at a given duration. Let's say that I don't have a PM and I want to do 2x20 L4 efforts at 90% of my maximum sustainable 20min power. If the trainer's power/speed relationship doesn't drift after warmup, I can easily determine (by trial and error) my maximum sustainable speed for 20mins. Let's say it's 25mph (power = x). Now, in order to ride at 90% of that power (.90x), can I apply a constant factor to the speed (25mph) obtained in my trial and error test? With some trainers, the answer to this question is true and with some trainers the answer to this question is false.RChung said:
Well, one of the most important points must be that Lucy has said that she has a PT. But in a larger sense, I have never encountered a trainer which, after proper warm-up, has drifted. Admittedly, 1) my experience is limited to the trainers I have had during the times I had both a PT and the willingness to do the tests -- now I just go by my PT and don't give a rat's ass what the trainer is doing so if it drifts I wouldn't know; 2) my max sustainable power during the time I did test must have been well within my trainers' ability to dissipate heat. Evidently, you have run across wimpy trainers. Which ones?RapDaddyo said:
Personally, I thought my CycleOps Mag trainer was pretty wimpy, which was the biggest reason I later went to a fluid. I could handle the drooping resistance as the unit heated up (finger-scorching hot by the end of the ride), but the overall resistance was just too wimpy - like the Trek Mag+ curve you posted. Having to pedal at 100+ rpm in a 53x11 just to get over 350w becomes a bit tedious, IMO.RChung said:
That's not a problem for beginners and smaller riders, though, and I have recommended that unit to others, with certain caveats.
Those of us with an SRM, PT or Ergomo are very fortunate because we can train with power on any trainer. But, I have given a lot of thought to the best way to train with power without a PM. With winter around the corner (for many of us), this is exactly the right time to prepare a winter training program. If I did not have a PM, I would get a trainer that meets the criteria I laid out above so that I could train with power (without a PM) through the winter. I am not focused on trainers that don't meet the criteria I laid out, only those that do. It's clear from the chart you posted that different trainers have different power/speed relationships, and this chart doesn't address the issue of drift over time. There is one trainer that I now feel confident in recommending, the KK Road Machine. BTW, I have no financial interest in this or any other trainer on the market. I simply want to provide good advice to those who want to train with power without a PM.RChung said:
I am aware of some trainers that drift during the course of a 20min L4 effort (i.e., power decreases while speed remains constant). I'm not naming the trainers that I am aware of because I'm not out to demean anybody's product. OTOH, I'm not going to recommend anybody's trainer unless I have pretty good evidence that it meets the criteria I laid out. For example, I have heard good things about the 1UP, but I just don't have enough info on it yet.RChung said:
Um, just so I understand you, when you say "aware of" does that mean you've measured this yourself with a power meter, knowing that the trainer was completely warmed up?RapDaddyo said:
Why would describing any object's true characteristics and performance be demeaning?
One trainer I have personal experience with and for others I have anecdotal information.RChung said:
I'm just not doing it. I have no desire to be a source of information that some manufacturers may view as negative on their training products, especially if I don't have personal experience with the product. My sole interest regarding trainers is the identification of those that can be used to train with power even without a power meter. The only trainer I'm prepared to say that about at the moment is the KK Road Machine based on multiple sources of information (although I think the 1UP is in that class, but I don't have enough info yet). Personally, I'm getting a Velodyne on the strength of Andy Coggan's testimonial.RChung said:
I agree , but wait for the rock and roll version..........Then tell us if you fall over when rocking and rollingPureshot78 said:
>> Why would describing any object's true characteristics
>> and performance be demeaning?
> I'm just not doing it.
As is your prerogative. But, for the record, I wasn't (and am not now) asking you to; my question was why describing an object's true characteristics is demeaning.
>> and performance be demeaning?
> I'm just not doing it.
As is your prerogative. But, for the record, I wasn't (and am not now) asking you to; my question was why describing an object's true characteristics is demeaning.
Whether it's power meters, trainers, wheels, tires or frames, it's my preference to name products that do meet my criteria rather than name those that don't. I'm not out to put anybody's product down just because it doesn't meet my criteria. Others may have a different set of criteria and may be happy as clams with a product that doesn't meet my criteria.RChung said:
Well, the result is, "I don't recommend this product for these reasons ..." and some manufacturers (or owners) could take offense. I think that what is more important is what I do enthusiastically recommend and why. Those who follow my posts know that I give this stuff a lot of thought and I am extremely careful about declaring that a product meets my criteria. As this relates to the subject at hand, I think the KK Road Machine is a great choice and I have recommended it to several people (not all of whom have PMs) who want to increase their FTP this winter. I also think the Velodyne is a great choice and I'm planning to buy one in a month or two. Those are two winners for indoor training.RChung said:
Hey, I had one of those this weekend.RapDaddyo said:When are we going to get something like the 3D full-motion aircraft simulators, complete with crit crashes?
Unfortunately, it wasn't a simulation...
Going around a corner in a 1/2/3 crit and had a rear tire blow out...
Took a while to slow down. The download said I was doing 33 mph when it happened.
Luckily, I kept it upright long enough so I didn't take anyone else down with me...
Simulations would be a lot better...
Jim
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